Ukraine

[selby]

  There is one thing certain, you might get 27 countries agreeing on the size and price of duck eggs, but if the sh*t hits the fan on this one watch them look after themselves and b******s to the others, and unlike some on here Putin knows it.

[wilts rover]

A couple of typhoon euro fighters flew low over our house yesterday. Bloody loud, they were going a fair old lick. Not a usual occurance. I wonder if there were Russians around the channel or something.

Nothing about a QRA on MOD news - although there is a joint exercise with the EU and USAF just starting. A US Bomber Task Force moved into Fairford last week (and 'bombed' Skegness on the way if you look at the maps in the second link)

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/raf-welcomes-back-us-bomber-task-force-to-europe/

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/regional-news/raf-fairford-live-american-b-6632491

[BillyStubbsTears]

NATO has zero intention of attacking Russia, and nothing to gain but Armageddon by doing so.

What NATO has done, is to provide a shield around countries that have regularly been pulverised by Russia. NATO has done that at the request of those countries.

Let's not allow our resident fascists and Putin arse-lickers to muddy the waters here. There is only ONE side threatening aggression in this whole issue. And it ain't NATO. Putin wants to exert Russia's authority over states that have never wanted that and do not now want that. Support that if you like, but don't dress it up as something more noble than it is. It is the bully wanting to exert his authority to bully.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The ability of EU-haters to hold two totally contradictory stances at the same time and not even realise how stupid that makes them sound never ceases to amaze me.

1) The EU wants a common foreign policy and an EU army and that is unacceptable.

2) The EU doesn't have a common foreign policy or the ability to use armed force and that shows how f**king useless it is.

This is what years of having your ideas formed by Mike Graham's warm diarrhea does.

[Sprotyrover]

The ability of EU-haters to hold two totally contradictory stances at the same time and not even realise how stupid that makes them sound never ceases to amaze me.

1) The EU wants a common foreign policy and an EU army and that is unacceptable.

2) The EU doesn't have a common foreign policy or the ability to use armed force and that shows how f**king useless it is.

This is what years of having your ideas formed by Mike Graham's warm diarrhea does.

As President Macron went to great lengths to explain to Putin last week NATO is a defensive force, Ukraine is not in NATO if Russian annex’s the Ukraine what has it to do with Nato

[normal rules]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

[Sprotyrover]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of Cheltenham when that happens.

[Axholme Lion]

NATO has zero intention of attacking Russia, and nothing to gain but Armageddon by doing so.

What NATO has done, is to provide a shield around countries that have regularly been pulverised by Russia. NATO has done that at the request of those countries.

Let's not allow our resident fascists and Putin arse-lickers to muddy the waters here. There is only ONE side threatening aggression in this whole issue. And it ain't NATO. Putin wants to exert Russia's authority over states that have never wanted that and do not now want that. Support that if you like, but don't dress it up as something more noble than it is. It is the bully wanting to exert his authority to bully.

What a load of horse shit.

[normal rules]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of Cheltenham when that happens.

Or raf waddington.

[wilts rover]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

Russia still occupies the Ukranian territory it invaded 8 years ago. The military response to any similar invasion will be exactly the same now as it was then.

And I am not going to hold my breath to Johnson imposing the sanctions on the Tories Russian donors that the rest of the NATO allies want.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NATO has zero intention of attacking Russia, and nothing to gain but Armageddon by doing so.

What NATO has done, is to provide a shield around countries that have regularly been pulverised by Russia. NATO has done that at the request of those countries.

Let's not allow our resident fascists and Putin arse-lickers to muddy the waters here. There is only ONE side threatening aggression in this whole issue. And it ain't NATO. Putin wants to exert Russia's authority over states that have never wanted that and do not now want that. Support that if you like, but don't dress it up as something more noble than it is. It is the bully wanting to exert his authority to bully.

What a load of horse shit.

Do you want to expand on why you came to that conclusion? Over and above the fact that you are a fascist who idolises Putin?

[ravenrover]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

Russia still occupies the Ukranian territory it invaded 8 years ago. The military response to any similar invasion will be exactly the same now as it was then.

And I am not going to hold my breath to Johnson imposing the sanctions on the Tories Russian donors that the rest of the NATO allies want.

Hasn't Johnson saod today ot will be very difficult to apply all the mentioned financial penalties on Russia? Wonder if his friend in The HoL is putting pressure on?

[Filo]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of Cheltenham when that happens.

Or raf waddington.

I thought RAF Waddington had closed down?

Or am I confusing it with RAF Scampton?

[aidanstu]

NATO has zero intention of attacking Russia, and nothing to gain but Armageddon by doing so.

What NATO has done, is to provide a shield around countries that have regularly been pulverised by Russia. NATO has done that at the request of those countries.

Let's not allow our resident fascists and Putin arse-lickers to muddy the waters here. There is only ONE side threatening aggression in this whole issue. And it ain't NATO. Putin wants to exert Russia's authority over states that have never wanted that and do not now want that. Support that if you like, but don't dress it up as something more noble than it is. It is the bully wanting to exert his authority to bully.

What a load of horse shit.

So let me get this right; you wanted out the EU so that the UK could have its sovereignty, be self governing and avoid future immigration but you’re more than happy for Ukraine not to have theirs and for Russians to invade their country en mass? What a weird view of the world you have.

[Sprotyrover]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of Cheltenham when that happens.

Or raf waddington.

RAF Waddington is where most of the RAF intel assets are based, AWACS and the like.

I thought RAF Waddington had closed down?

Or am I confusing it with RAF Scampton?

[drfchound]

A couple of typhoon euro fighters flew low over our house yesterday. Bloody loud, they were going a fair old lick. Not a usual occurance. I wonder if there were Russians around the channel or something.

Are you sure they were RAF? It was Sunday yesterday after all!

What other country could they have been from though?

[DRFCSouth]

A couple of typhoon euro fighters flew low over our house yesterday. Bloody loud, they were going a fair old lick. Not a usual occurance. I wonder if there were Russians around the channel or something.

Are you sure they were RAF? It was Sunday yesterday after all!

What other country could they have been from though?

Italy, Germany, Spain to name a few. It was a multinational design.

More than likely an RAF aircraft, and either on training or Quick Reaction Alert.

[DRFCSouth]

Should the allied forces want to kick back against any invasion, they would not need any troops on the ground. The soviet armoured vehicles could be taken out using nothing more than drone strikes. Of which the allied forces have the upper hand on the Russians. They may have alot  of tanks, but we have a lot of drones collectively. And bombs to strap to them.
It will be interesting to see if there is an invasion, if selective Russian targets are taken out on Ukraine soil by allies of Ukraine.
There is a difference between defending Ukraine on their own soil, and attacking Russia on its.
The Russians have been playing a similar game in Syria for a long long time.

I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of Cheltenham when that happens.

Or raf waddington.

I thought RAF Waddington had closed down?

Or am I confusing it with RAF Scampton?

Scampton is going. Making way for housing unfortunately.

A shame considering it's historical significance, with the Dambusters.

[normal rules]

Confirmed. Scampton is finished.
RAF Waddington is the major uk base for Unmanned Systems though.
They have a brand new Electronic Warefare facility there. Well, it’s been there a few years actually.
13 Sqn RAF are based there (ex tornado sqn) Which is A Reaper Drone unit now.
Most uk drone ops in Afghan were run from there. Or 39 sqn RAF which is based in the Nevada desert just a few clicks north of Vegas. A detachment with USAF.
By the end of this year, the Red Arrows will be rehoused at Waddington too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting. Russia is pulling troops away from the border.

Looks like a very sensible win for Putin.

1) The West has made it clear it would t fight for Ukraine.

2) The West has made is clear it BELIEVED Putin would go to war.

3) It's clear that Ukraine will now not be joining NATO.

4) Not a shot fired.

Putin strengthened. West weakened.

The real concern comes if he now tries this in the Baltic States.

[Filo]

Interesting. Russia is pulling troops away from the border.

Looks like a very sensible win for Putin.

1) The West has made it clear it would t fight for Ukraine.

2) The West has made is clear it BELIEVED Putin would go to war.

3) It's clear that Ukraine will now not be joining NATO.

4) Not a shot fired.

Putin strengthened. West weakened.

The real concern comes if he now tries this in the Baltic States.

Double bluff?

[SydneyRover]

It would be costing Russia quite a bit to maintain 100k+ troops where they are, fingers crossed it is a genuine withdrawal

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting. Russia is pulling troops away from the border.

Looks like a very sensible win for Putin.

1) The West has made it clear it would t fight for Ukraine.

2) The West has made is clear it BELIEVED Putin would go to war.

3) It's clear that Ukraine will now not be joining NATO.

4) Not a shot fired.

Putin strengthened. West weakened.

The real concern comes if he now tries this in the Baltic States.

Double bluff?

I doubt it. I can't see what there is to be gained by that.

[Metalmicky]

Confirmed. Scampton is finished.
RAF Waddington is the major uk base for Unmanned Systems though.
They have a brand new Electronic Warefare facility there. Well, it’s been there a few years actually.
13 Sqn RAF are based there (ex tornado sqn) Which is A Reaper Drone unit now.
Most uk drone ops in Afghan were run from there. Or 39 sqn RAF which is based in the Nevada desert just a few clicks north of Vegas. A detachment with USAF.
By the end of this year, the Red Arrows will be rehoused at Waddington too.

I was at Scampton just last week.  It isn't quite 'finished' - although closure is in the pipeline.... just as well really as it's in a poor state of repair now and would cost a fortune to fix it up.
The Reds are supposed to be moving to Waddington end of this year - although don't be surprised if it slips......... yet again.
Used to work in the Air Warfare Centre at Waddington and can confirm what you say regarding 13 Sqn - who were the first UK based Reaper Squadron - been there about 10 years now.
Can also confirm that 39 Sqn have been based at Creech Air Force Base north of Vegas in Nevada for several years - pre 13 Sqn.
Never actually been there, but I have had to go to Nellis Air Force Base (just out of Vegas) a few times......with my old job.

[River Don]

Interesting. Russia is pulling troops away from the border.

Looks like a very sensible win for Putin.

1) The West has made it clear it would t fight for Ukraine.

2) The West has made is clear it BELIEVED Putin would go to war.

3) It's clear that Ukraine will now not be joining NATO.

4) Not a shot fired.

Putin strengthened. West weakened.

The real concern comes if he now tries this in the Baltic States.

If this is a Russian climb down, then Putin will need something to save face. If Ukraine has agreed not to join NATO then that is not a great loss, since they weren't members anyway.

Finland isn't a member of NATO, Austria isn't a member of NATO and they can still flourish. If Ukraine is able to go about its business and Putin is happy enough knowing NATO isn't on his doorstep, then its a reasonable outcome.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not sure Putin will have any face saving issues at home. The official media is already playing it as "Look how stupid the West was, shitting itself in response  to nothing more than training exercises from the Great Patriotic Army.

Similarly, there's no face saving needed abroad. Putin's gun hand has twitched and the West HAS shit itself. Taken the threat seriously, said explicitly that we wouldn't intervene, had leaders scuttling back and forth to Moscow like Chamberlain to Munich and allowed talk of Finlandisation of Ukraine out into the mainstream.

Job done.

[drfchound]

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised by this outcome.
No one wanted an actual war did they?
I would imagine that there is much state control in Russia with regards to news outlets so they will just give information that Putin says it is ok to give.
No winners.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I guess there is an alternative take.

That the West knew Putin wasn't seriously considering an invasion, but they have hammed it up (withdrawing staff for safety, talking about imminent invasion) in order to put the shits up Ukraine to accept Finlandisation.

Because let's face it.

America doesn't want to be fighting with Russia if it can help it.
Germany doesn't want to risk its gas supply.
Britain doesn't want to have to boot the kleptocrats out of Londongrad (and certainly the Tories don't want to lose their income).

So this way,  everyone is happy. Except Ukraine, which is given into the embrace of Russia for a generation.

[DRFCSouth]

I'm of the belief they are peeved off with being surrounded by NATO, with the likes of Estonia & Lithuania as members (where we also conduct 'training' from).

This is stomping their heels as Ukraine joining really would have been a kick in the teeth for them.

No one wants a war as it would be a cataclysmic disaster.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Estonia and Lithuania and Latvia asked to join NATO because they want protection against being invaded by Russia. They want to be free democracies, not Russian clonies.

Ukraine wanted membership of NATO for the same reason.

There is absolutely zero possibility of NATO launching an attack on Russia. Russia doesn't want those countries outside NATO because it is afraid. It wants the, out of NATO so it can control them. There is only one aggressor in all this. But there are plenty of Useful Idiots in the West doing Putin's propaganda job for him.