Ukraine

[River Don]

Latest reports suggest nothing has yet changed.

The Russians haven't moved forces away yet, NATO hasn't agreed to anything.

[Axholme Lion]

Why is it ok to have US forces in Europe but as soon as Russia stands up for itself they are war mongers?
I think the West has more blood on it's hands since the end of WW2 than Russia. The serial invaders need to have a look at themselves before criticizing others.
Vietnam, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Why is it ok to have US forces in Europe but as soon as Russia stands up for itself they are war mongers?
I think the West has more blood on it's hands since the end of WW2 than Russia. The serial invaders need to have a look at themselves before criticizing others.
Vietnam, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Versus Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Afghanistan etc......

It's all well and good saying that Russia shouldn't have been engaged, but had they not been they undoubtedly would have invaded Ukraine.

[River Don]

The Russians starved about 4 million probably more in Ukraine when they forced collectivisation on them in the 30s.

[selby]

BFYP, it was only economics that was the reason for Russia vacating most of Eastern Europe, and you must be of an age that Hungary and Czechoslovakia happened before you were born, and the threat of coming all the way West for the rest of mainland Europe was taken very seriously by everybody. It is six of one and six for the other who gets the plaudits for this because while Billy thinks he has won the joust, him and old Gerry will have been told by the US that the pipe line that they both see as their economic saviour would not exist ten minutes if Putin made a move.
   The US are not that bothered about the oil and gas situation in Europe,  or Greta and her fans. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why is it ok to have US forces in Europe but as soon as Russia stands up for itself they are war mongers?
I think the West has more blood on it's hands since the end of WW2 than Russia. The serial invaders need to have a look at themselves before criticizing others.
Vietnam, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Versus Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Afghanistan etc......

It's all well and good saying that Russia shouldn't have been engaged, but had they not been they undoubtedly would have invaded Ukraine.

Not to mention the biggest war crime of the past 50 years. Chechnya.

This is what Russia did to Grozny.


That's not a picture from WWI. That's from the very end of the 1990s, on the edge of Europe.

The West has done some horrific things this past 50 years but nothing comes close to what Russia has done in Grozny and Aleppo. Bestial.

[Axholme Lion]

Why is it ok to have US forces in Europe but as soon as Russia stands up for itself they are war mongers?
I think the West has more blood on it's hands since the end of WW2 than Russia. The serial invaders need to have a look at themselves before criticizing others.
Vietnam, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Versus Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Afghanistan etc......

It's all well and good saying that Russia shouldn't have been engaged, but had they not been they undoubtedly would have invaded Ukraine.

Not to mention the biggest war crime of the past 50 years. Chechnya.

This is what Russia did to Grozny.


That's not a picture from WWI. That's from the very end of the 1990s, on the edge of Europe.

The West has done some horrific things this past 50 years but nothing comes close to what Russia has done in Grozny and Aleppo. Bestial.

Fighting against Islamic Jihadis defending the civilized world as they did in Syria ( who were probably armed by the West ). Justified action in my book, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Like I said AL. You would have supported the Final Solution if you were 75 years older. You are truly disgusting.

[Axholme Lion]

Like I said AL. You would have supported the Final Solution if you were 75 years older. You are truly disgusting.

So you would have supported the Chechen Jihadis in their atrocities then? There can be no soft touch in dealing with animals like them. Go in fast and hard to eliminate the problem.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hostage-crisis-in-moscow-theater
This is the scum they were dealing with. Just because the West has no backbone because they are to busy fretting over personal pro nouns don't have a go at a country with the balls to get the job done.

[River Don]

US intelligence still expecting the attack to commence at 1am UK time.

[DRFCSouth]

We will never be closer to any relations with them whilst:

A: They continue with antics such as sitting on the Ukraine border.

B. Whilst NATO continues to collect member countries that surround Russia.

C. Whilst they and the west are continually in disagreement in places such as Syria as an example.

Maybe it will forever be cultural differences that separate us.

And a lack of willingness on both sides to sir around and discuss things.

[Axholme Lion]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

[wilts rover]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

[glosterred]

From Twitter @visionergeo

Don't forget that in 2008 Russia announced the completion of large-scale Kavkaz-2008 military exercise near Georgian borders and withdrew some of its forces to their permanent bases on August 2, just five days before the Russian invasion into Georgia was launched.

[Axholme Lion]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

[River Don]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

At least until he turned his attention to the Baltic's.

[Axholme Lion]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

At least until he turned his attention to the Baltic's.

Which should be the same outcome.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Why is it ok to have US forces in Europe but as soon as Russia stands up for itself they are war mongers?
I think the West has more blood on it's hands since the end of WW2 than Russia. The serial invaders need to have a look at themselves before criticizing others.
Vietnam, Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Versus Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Afghanistan etc......

It's all well and good saying that Russia shouldn't have been engaged, but had they not been they undoubtedly would have invaded Ukraine.

And East Germany, Hungary and Czechoslovakia...

[Glyn_Wigley]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

Except for the people defending their country, of course. But they don't count it seems.

I'd never have expected a Millwall supporter to kowtow to a bully.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Like I said AL. You would have supported the Final Solution if you were 75 years older. You are truly disgusting.

So you would have supported the Chechen Jihadis in their atrocities then? There can be no soft touch in dealing with animals like them. Go in fast and hard to eliminate the problem.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hostage-crisis-in-moscow-theater
This is the scum they were dealing with. Just because the West has no backbone because they are to busy fretting over personal pro nouns don't have a go at a country with the balls to get the job done.

I know all about that scho siege and it was horrific. But you don't respond to that by carpet bombing a city out of existence, killing 100,000 civilians and destroying the homes of half a million more. Unless you are sub-human.

I also know about how the Moscow police stumbled upon members of Putin's FSB setting up false flag terrorist  attacks to justify the action in Grozny. And what happened to politicians and journalists who tried to dig into the cover up.

Support a murdering, genocidal gangster if you want AL. Just don't try and dress up bestial crimes as some sort of moral good.

[Axholme Lion]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

Except for the people defending their country, of course. But they don't count it seems.

I'd never have expected a Millwall supporter to kowtow to a bully.

What's it got to do with us? it's not our sphere of influence and security. RUSSIA DOES NOT WANT TO INVADE THE WEST! They just want their own patch to be secure without encroachment from the liberalist pollution of the western world.

[Axholme Lion]

Like I said AL. You would have supported the Final Solution if you were 75 years older. You are truly disgusting.

So you would have supported the Chechen Jihadis in their atrocities then? There can be no soft touch in dealing with animals like them. Go in fast and hard to eliminate the problem.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/hostage-crisis-in-moscow-theater
This is the scum they were dealing with. Just because the West has no backbone because they are to busy fretting over personal pro nouns don't have a go at a country with the balls to get the job done.

I know all about that scho siege and it was horrific. But you don't respond to that by carpet bombing a city out of existence, killing 100,000 civilians and destroying the homes of half a million more. Unless you are sub-human.

So what should they have done, sent a strongly worded letter?

[River Don]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

At least until he turned his attention to the Baltic's.

Which should be the same outcome.

And then Poland.

[Glyn_Wigley]

This situation would not have occurred if Trump was still in office.

The Trump who got elected into the White House on the back of Russian oligarch money? What do you think he would have done differently other than waved Putin in?

Which would have solved the problem and we can all get on with our lives in peace.

Except for the people defending their country, of course. But they don't count it seems.

I'd never have expected a Millwall supporter to kowtow to a bully.

What's it got to do with us? it's not our sphere of influence and security. RUSSIA DOES NOT WANT TO INVADE THE WEST! They just want their own patch to be secure without encroachment from the liberalist pollution of the western world.

https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-declares-peace-for-our-time-75-years-ago

[Axholme Lion]

The Ukrainians are kinsfolk to the Russians. It's not our domain and we should not interfere. When will we ever learn busy bodying in the affairs of others?

[River Don]

The Ukrainians are kinsfolk to the Russians. It's not our domain and we should not interfere. When will we ever learn busy bodying in the affairs of others?

Some of them are, in the west many have a Polish links.

And anyway it's the Ukrainians themselves who are turning away from Russia and towards the EU.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The Ukrainians are kinsfolk to the Russians. It's not our domain and we should not interfere. When will we ever learn busy bodying in the affairs of others?

Using that logic, we should never have declared war on Germany in 1939.

[Nudga]

Invasion now likely on February 30th at 12.78pm

[selby]

  It depends on what Putin see's as success, If he can pull one over NATO's eyes and can be seen to have done, then there is a good chance it will pacify him.
  If negotiations don't go to his liking, I wouldn't like to bet whether he has the balls to flick the switch or not, everyone has a lot to lose if that's the final outcome not least himself and the regime he dominates.
  And if he does invade, all he will be left with will be a hornets nest, I don't think the Ukrainians will be a push over.

[wilts rover]

I doubt Putin will invade or ever had any intention of doing so. Why would he want to get involved in a guerilla war for the next however many years at the risk of bringing that into Russia itself? He was in the KGB when they planned the invasion Afghanistan in 1979 - I doubt he would risk a repeat of that. Or see Russia banned from all world sports events for years.

What he wants is for the Ukraine to look to Russia for its security, to be taken seriously as a world leader, to damage the western economy and to enhance his prestige at home. Doing pretty well on all those by just moving a few soldiers about on Russian territory I would have thought.