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Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 220761 times)

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Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2160 on May 15, 2022, 11:53:16 am by Bristol Red Rover »
Depressing how many purveyors of utter b*llocks convince themselves that those who profoundly disagree with them only get their information from the BBC.


Hey dud, quit with the insults, its cheap and tiresome.



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BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2161 on May 15, 2022, 11:57:55 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Then stop with the cheap shots about where people who profoundly disagree with you get their information from.

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2162 on May 15, 2022, 04:21:35 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
Then stop with the cheap shots about where people who profoundly disagree with you get their information from.
Come on, that last comment of mine mentioning BBC progaganda wasn't pointed, just stating the bleedin obvious. And was following you having an uneccessary dig at me. This isn't a game of footy, we're not the Yids v the ICF.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2163 on May 15, 2022, 05:32:42 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
So if you were "just stating the bleeding obvious" about the BBC, presumably you WERE having a dig at the approaches of people who profoundly disagree with you? Seems to me you're explicitly being dismissive of those who think your utterly on the wrong side of both history and morality here.

For the record, I should make it clear that I AM being dismissive of your approach. An attitude that casually waves away the destruction of Mariupol as just one of those things that happens in war isn't an attitude that deserves to be given the courtesy of being respected.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2164 on May 15, 2022, 05:35:17 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Back on topic. This seems to be a reasonable statement of Putin's 6 Stages of Grief over Ukraine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1525815004234227712

He's been at 3 for some time but may well be kicked towards 4 and further over coming weeks.

normal rules

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2165 on May 15, 2022, 07:42:23 pm by normal rules »
U2s Bono and Edge played a surprise busk in an underground station in Kyiv recently.
Haven’t the good people of Kyiv suffered enough?

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2166 on May 15, 2022, 10:51:50 pm by SydneyRover »
That thought had crossed my mind too.

normal rules

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2167 on May 16, 2022, 08:25:36 am by normal rules »
Dictators can be brutal.
They can be capricious.
But they can also be weak.
#bloodcancer.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 04:29:07 pm by normal rules »

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2168 on May 16, 2022, 10:08:00 am by SydneyRover »
Sweden & Finland could offer not to join NATO if russia totally withdraws from Ukraine!

normal rules

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2169 on May 16, 2022, 11:11:23 am by normal rules »
What about Russia to join NATO?
They would never be invaded (by the west) and would guarantee their own security.

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2170 on May 16, 2022, 11:12:51 am by SydneyRover »
After putin is dead or removed

BobG

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2171 on May 16, 2022, 12:59:05 pm by BobG »
Cracking idea NR, but not one that would appeal to what I've always, always thought is a 19th Century imperialist state. He, or they, would lose too much influence and 'respect'. Only when Russia moves out of the imperialist phase of national development will things change for the better. Trouible is, if you look at politics, economics, industry, government, social welfare, almost everything tbh, Russia has always been 150 years behind. Given the west left overt imperialism behind between 60 and 70 years  ago, we gotta long time still to wait.....

BobG
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 01:11:58 pm by BobG »

normal rules

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2172 on May 16, 2022, 02:09:05 pm by normal rules »
Cracking idea NR, but not one that would appeal to what I've always, always thought is a 19th Century imperialist state. He, or they, would lose too much influence and 'respect'. Only when Russia moves out of the imperialist phase of national development will things change for the better. Trouible is, if you look at politics, economics, industry, government, social welfare, almost everything tbh, Russia has always been 150 years behind. Given the west left overt imperialism behind between 60 and 70 years  ago, we gotta long time still to wait.....

BobG

Turkey are hardly an example of Western Democracy.
Autocracy hiding behind a democratic facade.
But, and it’s a big but, they have no ideas of taking over an adjoining country. And they are prepared to stand up and help their neighbours. With perhaps the exception of Kurdistan of course. Oh, and Cypriot Cyprus.

And on the note of Kurdistan. Turkey could black ball both Sweden and Finland beca use they are 2 countries known to Turkey, that harbour Kurdish extremists.
Interesting also that Turkey are still allowing Russian flights in and out of their country due to heavy reliance on Russian holidaymakers flocking to their shores.

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2173 on May 16, 2022, 02:19:40 pm by SydneyRover »
Sweden are to vote on NATO

Dutch Uncle

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2174 on May 16, 2022, 02:58:39 pm by Dutch Uncle »
Cracking idea NR, but not one that would appeal to what I've always, always thought is a 19th Century imperialist state. He, or they, would lose too much influence and 'respect'. Only when Russia moves out of the imperialist phase of national development will things change for the better. Trouible is, if you look at politics, economics, industry, government, social welfare, almost everything tbh, Russia has always been 150 years behind. Given the west left overt imperialism behind between 60 and 70 years  ago, we gotta long time still to wait.....

BobG

To be fair Bob  & NR, NATO has conditions on membership including democratic elections, so Russia is a non starter.

Up until 2008 Russia and NATO were actually cooperating very significantly, prior to the Georgia situation.

Also one wonders about Turkey who obviously met the conditions for joining in 1952, but imho don’t any more. I don’t see any appetite for throwing Turkey out of NATO, but if they play silly buggers for too long w.r.t Finland and Sweden might that change?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 03:17:30 pm by Dutch Uncle »

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2175 on May 16, 2022, 05:16:04 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
So if you were "just stating the bleeding obvious" about the BBC, presumably you WERE having a dig at the approaches of people who profoundly disagree with you? Seems to me you're explicitly being dismissive of those who think your utterly on the wrong side of both history and morality here.

For the record, I should make it clear that I AM being dismissive of your approach. An attitude that casually waves away the destruction of Mariupol as just one of those things that happens in war isn't an attitude that deserves to be given the courtesy of being respected.
What else would you like to call the BBC propaganda?

My only beef in all this is the one sided pro west (not pro Ukraine) perspective, which tends to bury the bigger picture, as well as create more conflict. If anyone is coming from that space, clearly projected by the BBC amongst others, and not able to look at or accept the nuances and causes, as well as ignoring things such as Ukraine abuses (eg in Mariupol), Ukraine military losses, etc etc, then I doubt they are seriously up for understanding the situation. As I said before, in no way am I backing Russia, what they have done is horrific. However, I cannot see how the west is innocent, nor those in the Ukraine who have pushed in the wests direction so fiercely and undemocratically. This ain't black and white or yellow and red.

Colin C No.3

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2176 on May 16, 2022, 05:42:31 pm by Colin C No.3 »
Sweden & Finland could offer not to join NATO if russia totally withdraws from Ukraine!
I do hope that’s tongue in cheek.

danumdon

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2177 on May 16, 2022, 06:12:24 pm by danumdon »
Thought one or two maybe would of had some sort of opinion on this tweet from Alex Navalny commenting on the support the UK have provided to the Ukrainian war effort.

I'm sure if it had been negative it would of been up before now.


https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1526215436383166464?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1526215436383166464%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2022%2Fmay%2F16%2Frussia-ukraine-war-latest-news-swedish-pm-to-seek-parliaments-support-for-joining-nato-live

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2178 on May 16, 2022, 06:17:49 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
I was literally just about to post this DD.

Fair play. It looks like our Govt is calling this right.

drfchound

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2179 on May 16, 2022, 06:50:07 pm by drfchound »
Sweden are to vote on NATO

I wonder if democracy will prevail if the vote is close, say something like 51% to 49%.

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2180 on May 16, 2022, 11:00:02 pm by SydneyRover »
Sweden & Finland could offer not to join NATO if russia totally withdraws from Ukraine!
I do hope that’s tongue in cheek.

Well spotted Col

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2181 on May 17, 2022, 12:39:19 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Wow.

Ex-Russian Colonel giving it with both barrels tonight on Russian State TV.

https://mobile.twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882?s=21&t=qQdhoNowCKGuBP3e2qNQbA

drfchound

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2182 on May 17, 2022, 08:21:08 am by drfchound »
I bet he won’t be on next weeks show.

River Don

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2183 on May 17, 2022, 09:57:16 am by River Don »
The Russians have suffered such great losses, the truth must be leaking out by now.

The problem is, Putin has no way out. He needs some sort of a victory but increasingly, it's looking like he won't get one.

The Ukrainians genuinely believe they will have forced Russia out by the end of the year.

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2184 on May 17, 2022, 12:51:36 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
There are recent Russian gains in the Donbas, and rheres tbe Ukraine surrender in Mariupol.

Russia has had losses, so too has Ukraine, but that info is suppressed.

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2185 on May 17, 2022, 12:55:24 pm by SydneyRover »
''Russia-Ukraine war: hundreds of Ukrainian fighters evacuated from Azovstal''

Guardian live

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2186 on May 17, 2022, 12:56:23 pm by SydneyRover »
''Russia-Ukraine war: hundreds of Ukrainian fighters evacuated from Azovstal''

bbc live

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2187 on May 17, 2022, 01:01:19 pm by SydneyRover »
''Ukraine ends bloody battle for Mariupol, evacuates Azovstal fighters''

Washington Post

SydneyRover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2188 on May 17, 2022, 01:05:17 pm by SydneyRover »
''Hospo Manager With A Masters In Asian Languages Will Be Sharing A Dunny With Some Bloke Forever''

Batoota Advocate ................... oops not that one it's a spoof website

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #2189 on May 17, 2022, 06:44:58 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
"evacuation".

Funny isn't it, the relentless twisted language used by western media that somehow escapes the critical awareness of some folks.

In every other instance this is referred to as a surrender. The soldiers are currently in process of an exchange. Ie they are captured, following their surrender. Yet not one headline reflects this.

 

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