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For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 03, 2023, 12:31:33 pmFor the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore. It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.
Quote from: wilts rover on July 03, 2023, 05:53:52 pmQuote from: i_ateallthepies on July 03, 2023, 01:54:33 pmBRR is this forum's very own Russian Bot.He is actually an old trot who believes everything the west, UK/US/NATO does in their foreign policy is wrong and we should look to appease Russia. As the old left did during the Cold War up to the Hungarian Uprising in 1956. And some continued to do afterwards because they couldn't believe what they were seeing either and refused to change the beliefs they had held all their lives.End result is the same tho.Off the mark, but stay with the narrative you need if that brings you comfort.
Quote from: i_ateallthepies on July 03, 2023, 01:54:33 pmBRR is this forum's very own Russian Bot.He is actually an old trot who believes everything the west, UK/US/NATO does in their foreign policy is wrong and we should look to appease Russia. As the old left did during the Cold War up to the Hungarian Uprising in 1956. And some continued to do afterwards because they couldn't believe what they were seeing either and refused to change the beliefs they had held all their lives.End result is the same tho.
BRR is this forum's very own Russian Bot.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 04, 2023, 03:34:15 pmQuote from: wilts rover on July 03, 2023, 05:53:52 pmQuote from: i_ateallthepies on July 03, 2023, 01:54:33 pmBRR is this forum's very own Russian Bot.He is actually an old trot who believes everything the west, UK/US/NATO does in their foreign policy is wrong and we should look to appease Russia. As the old left did during the Cold War up to the Hungarian Uprising in 1956. And some continued to do afterwards because they couldn't believe what they were seeing either and refused to change the beliefs they had held all their lives.End result is the same tho.Off the mark, but stay with the narrative you need if that brings you comfort. Not particularly. I give very little thought to your motivation. I reply to what I read, why you post it is irrelvant.As I said above in response to Pies - the end result is the same.
US sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine. Wow
Prigozhin back in Russia I see BRR. Putin must really be weakened in the eyes of the general Russian public.
Quote from: TonySoprano on July 07, 2023, 08:40:27 pmUS sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine. Wow Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the warhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russia
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 04, 2023, 04:06:24 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 03, 2023, 12:31:33 pmFor the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore. It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker. Where exactly is this 'being said'?
Quote from: wilts rover on July 04, 2023, 05:57:43 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 04, 2023, 04:06:24 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 03, 2023, 12:31:33 pmFor the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore. It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker. Where exactly is this 'being said'?Not in the Guardian or beeb, I wonder why? Here is one place https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurantI saw a vid showing US serviceman, presumably ex serviceman, giving help after the strike. I'll post it if I find it again. Meanwhile, there's no doubt soldiers were there.https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-veteran-killed-kramatorsk-ukraine/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/28/ukraine-russia-war-latest-vladimir-putin-yevgeny-prigozhin/There's a vid in this link referencing soldiers https://sputnikglobe.com/amp/20230629/fact-check-what-was-real-spot-of-russias-strike-in-kramatorsk-1111542792.html
Quote from: glosterred on July 08, 2023, 10:52:10 amQuote from: TonySoprano on July 07, 2023, 08:40:27 pmUS sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine. Wow Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the warhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russiaAs has Ukraine, even according to that Guardian article.Ukraine has also extensively used petal mines, fired into urban areas. More concerning is the introduction of depleted uranium shells from Sunak.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 09, 2023, 06:51:12 pmQuote from: glosterred on July 08, 2023, 10:52:10 amQuote from: TonySoprano on July 07, 2023, 08:40:27 pmUS sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine. Wow Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the warhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russiaAs has Ukraine, even according to that Guardian article.Ukraine has also extensively used petal mines, fired into urban areas. More concerning is the introduction of depleted uranium shells from Sunak. Depleted uranium, we’ve been there before, another weapon that the Russians already have in their arsenal. Seems you’re okay with Russians having it, but against anyone supplying the Ukrainian with it.As for petal mines, the Russians have previous for this as they spread millions all over Afghanistan when they occupied that country. So again you seem happy that the Russians have and use these mines but against anyone who retaliates with the same weapons.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 09, 2023, 06:59:06 pmQuote from: wilts rover on July 04, 2023, 05:57:43 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 04, 2023, 04:06:24 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 03, 2023, 12:31:33 pmFor the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore. It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker. Where exactly is this 'being said'?Not in the Guardian or beeb, I wonder why? Here is one place https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurantI saw a vid showing US serviceman, presumably ex serviceman, giving help after the strike. I'll post it if I find it again. Meanwhile, there's no doubt soldiers were there.https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-veteran-killed-kramatorsk-ukraine/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/28/ukraine-russia-war-latest-vladimir-putin-yevgeny-prigozhin/There's a vid in this link referencing soldiers https://sputnikglobe.com/amp/20230629/fact-check-what-was-real-spot-of-russias-strike-in-kramatorsk-1111542792.htmlNowhere in any of those independent sources does it say what you claimed. Other than them reporting claims by the Russian Defence Ministry. The only soldiers killed in that attack were ones on leave.In fact the Aljazeera article quotes Russian 'sources' as claiming they never hit civilian targets - just after it notes that three Colombian civilians were injured in the attack.So your source appears to be Russian State tv & the Russian Defence Ministry.
Seems the Russians have been lying again! No surprises, but it does put a certain persons opinion in the gutter where it deserves to be;“Most of the people who were portrayed in such stories as ‘victims’ of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were stand-ins, hired individuals. These characters repeated pre-memorized lines to themselves, trying to ‘squeeze out a tear.’ They were also instructed off-camera by the operator to speak ‘slower’ or to ‘repeat this moment again’,” told the former employee of RIA FAN.https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/
Quote from: silent majority on July 15, 2023, 11:08:35 amSeems the Russians have been lying again! No surprises, but it does put a certain persons opinion in the gutter where it deserves to be;“Most of the people who were portrayed in such stories as ‘victims’ of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were stand-ins, hired individuals. These characters repeated pre-memorized lines to themselves, trying to ‘squeeze out a tear.’ They were also instructed off-camera by the operator to speak ‘slower’ or to ‘repeat this moment again’,” told the former employee of RIA FAN.https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/Ah, that changes everything then. There's no victims of the armed forces of "Ukraine". Or what is it you're claiming exactly?
That wasn't the foundation of what is your perception of my argument. My main argument is the western media narrative is far from the whole story. Also, that the build up to this war is long and complex, including Russia itching for taking Ukraine, including the US, NATO, UK wanting a proxy war, wanting to have a go at Russia. The Donbas situation was fairly far down the road in all this. Are you friends saying Ukraine forces, many of them swastika sporting, was not killing people in Donbas? Where in Donbas are your friends?
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on July 16, 2023, 11:25:02 pmThat wasn't the foundation of what is your perception of my argument. My main argument is the western media narrative is far from the whole story. Also, that the build up to this war is long and complex, including Russia itching for taking Ukraine, including the US, NATO, UK wanting a proxy war, wanting to have a go at Russia. The Donbas situation was fairly far down the road in all this. Are you friends saying Ukraine forces, many of them swastika sporting, was not killing people in Donbas? Where in Donbas are your friends? My friends and colleagues were based all over Ukraine, and I visited them all on a regular basis. But key sites were Kiev where our main office and factory was, and an office we had in Donetsk, again which I visited regularly. In 2012 I stayed with a friend and work colleague in his house in Donetsk, which was very welcoming, during the UEFA tournament. We lost the office in Donetsk after the invasion, and again we lost the factory in Kiev within days of the new invasion during an air attack. We've since opened up again in Kiev but moved most of our senior management and their families in to Poland although quite a number have returned. Its quite emotional trying to have a Teams meeting when you know that some of the people on that call are sitting in an underground station!!I've avoided your comments on here for quite some time, I don't enjoy arguing politics, but its very personal for me, I know these people, and your disdain for them is beyond belief.PS - Lets not forget #MH17
Russia bombs the Grain terminals at Odessa, waiting for BRR to tell us now thats where Ukraine Army are hiding
Yet more signs of Russia's increasing loss of world importance.Ukraine today took out the Kerch Bridge again.Russia responded by saying it is pulling out of the agreement that let's Ukrainian wheat ships pass through the Black Sea on their way to feed Arabia and Africa.China very diplomatically says "Get back in your cage Russia. WE tell you what to do."https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680908984604131328Meanwhile. Expect the wheat shipments to continue under the protection of the Turkish navy. And since Turkey is in NATO, Russia will not dare attack their ships. Putin's Russia is a pitiful mess.