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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 30836 times)

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Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #150 on January 28, 2022, 05:06:03 pm by Bentley Bullet »
I'll just have a beer and stand at the window.



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Janso

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #151 on January 28, 2022, 05:16:38 pm by Janso »
Dark forces at work here.
The Home Secretary overseas everything the Police does. Especially so when her own are being investigated.
And now Metpol saying they don’t want certain Disclosures made as it may undermine their enquiry?
Is this the Metpol stance, or are they under influence by the very people they are trying to investigate. A very, very tangled web.

It's the Foreign Secretary that's going overseas surely.  :coat:

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #152 on January 28, 2022, 05:16:58 pm by River Don »
I'll just have a beer and stand at the window.

Cake?

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #153 on January 28, 2022, 05:29:22 pm by River Don »
I'll just have a beer and stand at the window.

Cake?

It's got cocaine in it!

Sorry, I meant... What's that stuff?. Rhubarb.

selby

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #154 on January 28, 2022, 06:11:50 pm by selby »
  Just enjoy the pint BB, be careful of vibrations though, there are plenty stamping their feet.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #155 on January 28, 2022, 07:41:25 pm by wilts rover »
Interesting surmision here from the Secret Barrister as to why they think the Met have asked to 'censor' the report

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/28/why-on-earth-would-the-metropolitan-police-ask-sue-gray-to-redact-key-parts-of-her-independent-report/

Probably also worth reminding yourself that there is currently an ongoing police investigation into Class A drug use in Parliament, after traces were found in several places including a toilet next to Johnson's office

https://www.businessinsider.com/cocaine-traces-found-uk-parliament-including-near-pms-office-report-2021-12?r=US&IR=T

It's also nice to keep having confirmation that some posters have never criticised Johnson - whatever he does - but will attack those who do. That's what he is relying on - its how fascism works.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #156 on January 28, 2022, 07:44:55 pm by wilts rover »
In seperate but related cover up news:

The Met Police has refused to release details of its decision not to investigate the £3m ‘cash for peerages’ scandal in the House of Lords

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1487099024868061188

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #157 on January 28, 2022, 08:39:18 pm by tyke1962 »
I've thought about this for many many years probably from the time of the financial crash in 2008 .

You know you can corrupt everything you want to retain power , rig the game anyway you want , pass this law that law or even have the armed forces backing you .

History tells us that only works for a certain period of time .

History tells us that if you don't quite get the balance right between corruption , a rigged society and enough to eat for the vast majority of the people it isn't going to end well for those at the top .

All it takes is a spark , I wouldn't suggest for one minute we are even close right now but the direction of travel isn't good I have to say .

It could go up in the US any day and in my opinion it probably will descend in to a civil war and that day isn't too far away .

I sincerely hope it never happens here but I wouldn't dismiss massive disorder breaking out either given as I say the direction of travel this country is heading towards .




Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #158 on January 28, 2022, 08:58:56 pm by Filo »
I've thought about this for many many years probably from the time of the financial crash in 2008 .

You know you can corrupt everything you want to retain power , rig the game anyway you want , pass this law that law or even have the armed forces backing you .

History tells us that only works for a certain period of time .

History tells us that if you don't quite get the balance right between corruption , a rigged society and enough to eat for the vast majority of the people it isn't going to end well for those at the top .

All it takes is a spark , I wouldn't suggest for one minute we are even close right now but the direction of travel isn't good I have to say .

It could go up in the US any day and in my opinion it probably will descend in to a civil war and that day isn't too far away .

I sincerely hope it never happens here but I wouldn't dismiss massive disorder breaking out either given as I say the direction of travel this country is heading towards .





I agree, in the current climate civil disobedience can’t be too far away, if this was happening in another Country the UK would be shouting corruption from the rooftops

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #159 on January 28, 2022, 09:18:51 pm by River Don »
... And we are looking a big hit in living standards full in the face.

And it's really not that long ago since we had widespread riots.

Interesting times.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 09:28:04 pm by River Don »

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #160 on January 28, 2022, 09:40:54 pm by tyke1962 »
I've thought about this for many many years probably from the time of the financial crash in 2008 .

You know you can corrupt everything you want to retain power , rig the game anyway you want , pass this law that law or even have the armed forces backing you .

History tells us that only works for a certain period of time .

History tells us that if you don't quite get the balance right between corruption , a rigged society and enough to eat for the vast majority of the people it isn't going to end well for those at the top .

All it takes is a spark , I wouldn't suggest for one minute we are even close right now but the direction of travel isn't good I have to say .

It could go up in the US any day and in my opinion it probably will descend in to a civil war and that day isn't too far away .

I sincerely hope it never happens here but I wouldn't dismiss massive disorder breaking out either given as I say the direction of travel this country is heading towards .





I agree, in the current climate civil disobedience can’t be too far away, if this was happening in another Country the UK would be shouting corruption from the rooftops

There's clearly nothing Johnson and his minions won't throw under the bus to hold on to power .

Once the state decides to limit its powers and focus on those who aren't at the top of the tree you are heading in to very serious territory .

As an enemy of the state in 84/85 I'm more than well placed to know what it's capabilities are , it's never left me .

However this is different territory today , this isn't about putting down some trade union and it's leader this has consequences for everybody who is just about getting by .

Just about getting by is measured in millions rather than a NUM membership in to the thousands .

I'm of the opinion since 2008 almost everything is capable of happening and all it needs is for want of a better term " a perfect storm " .


Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #161 on January 28, 2022, 09:43:17 pm by Filo »
I've thought about this for many many years probably from the time of the financial crash in 2008 .

You know you can corrupt everything you want to retain power , rig the game anyway you want , pass this law that law or even have the armed forces backing you .

History tells us that only works for a certain period of time .

History tells us that if you don't quite get the balance right between corruption , a rigged society and enough to eat for the vast majority of the people it isn't going to end well for those at the top .

All it takes is a spark , I wouldn't suggest for one minute we are even close right now but the direction of travel isn't good I have to say .

It could go up in the US any day and in my opinion it probably will descend in to a civil war and that day isn't too far away .

I sincerely hope it never happens here but I wouldn't dismiss massive disorder breaking out either given as I say the direction of travel this country is heading towards .





I agree, in the current climate civil disobedience can’t be too far away, if this was happening in another Country the UK would be shouting corruption from the rooftops

There's clearly nothing Johnson and his minions won't throw under the bus to hold on to power .

Once the state decides to limit its powers and focus on those who aren't at the top of the tree you are heading in to very serious territory .

As an enemy of the state in 84/85 I'm more than well placed to know what it's capabilities are , it's never left me .

However this is different territory today , this isn't about putting down some trade union and it's leader this has consequences for everybody who is just about getting by .

Just about getting by is measured in millions rather than a NUM membership in to the thousands .

I'm of the opinion since 2008 almost everything is capable of happening and all it needs is for want of a better term " a perfect storm " .



And going back to 84, we all know what the Met were like and what they stand for, Tory private army

glosterred

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #162 on January 28, 2022, 09:43:31 pm by glosterred »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/



River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #163 on January 28, 2022, 09:52:22 pm by River Don »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/




Ever heard of Marie Antoinette?

Entitlement and arrogance in the face of real hardship. That's what's coming.

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #164 on January 28, 2022, 10:14:47 pm by tyke1962 »
I've thought about this for many many years probably from the time of the financial crash in 2008 .

You know you can corrupt everything you want to retain power , rig the game anyway you want , pass this law that law or even have the armed forces backing you .

History tells us that only works for a certain period of time .

History tells us that if you don't quite get the balance right between corruption , a rigged society and enough to eat for the vast majority of the people it isn't going to end well for those at the top .

All it takes is a spark , I wouldn't suggest for one minute we are even close right now but the direction of travel isn't good I have to say .

It could go up in the US any day and in my opinion it probably will descend in to a civil war and that day isn't too far away .

I sincerely hope it never happens here but I wouldn't dismiss massive disorder breaking out either given as I say the direction of travel this country is heading towards .





I agree, in the current climate civil disobedience can’t be too far away, if this was happening in another Country the UK would be shouting corruption from the rooftops

There's clearly nothing Johnson and his minions won't throw under the bus to hold on to power .

Once the state decides to limit its powers and focus on those who aren't at the top of the tree you are heading in to very serious territory .

As an enemy of the state in 84/85 I'm more than well placed to know what it's capabilities are , it's never left me .

However this is different territory today , this isn't about putting down some trade union and it's leader this has consequences for everybody who is just about getting by .

Just about getting by is measured in millions rather than a NUM membership in to the thousands .

I'm of the opinion since 2008 almost everything is capable of happening and all it needs is for want of a better term " a perfect storm " .



And going back to 84, we all know what the Met were like and what they stand for, Tory private army

More than that Filo what it tells you is that neoliberalism or super capitalism is in massive trouble .

When the stakes get higher so does the game we are seeing getting played out today .

When the institutions we rely on to protect us all are coming in to question , the system we live in then you know certain interests have massive concerns .

The law that watered down the ability to protest didn't come without reason in my opinion .

Once you've waged war with those who at this moment in time incapable of defending themselves rather than the good you have done it tends to tell a story .

But good luck with that anyway , once there is a consensus from enough of the majority then that's it .

The people of this country could bring down the monarchy , the government or anybody else who they thought were complicit in making them hungry or unable to pay their way .

It's a fine balance and I suspect the current government may not be best placed to retain that balance with the way currently they are setting about things .

The Conservative Party in power is nothing more than a few hundred members with vested interests from possibly even less people .

It's possibly a fact .

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #165 on January 28, 2022, 10:22:37 pm by River Don »
Any system is a chain and it's only as strong as its weakest link.

We saw that in the financial crisis, once the weak link broke the rest of the banking system threatened to crumble in a chain reaction.

It's the same in society. If enough of those at the bottom can't get by... Then trouble.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #166 on January 28, 2022, 10:30:03 pm by SydneyRover »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/




Ever heard of Marie Antoinette?

Entitlement and arrogance in the face of real hardship. That's what's coming.

Yep, it's just confirmation of the tory view that law and order is for everyone else.

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #167 on January 28, 2022, 10:38:20 pm by River Don »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/




Ever heard of Marie Antoinette?

Entitlement and arrogance in the face of real hardship. That's what's coming.

Yep, it's just confirmation of the tory view that law and order is for everyone else.

Certainly looks that way with people like Reese Mogg who think it's all just a game to push the limits of the law as far as they can.

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #168 on January 28, 2022, 11:07:48 pm by tyke1962 »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/




Ever heard of Marie Antoinette?

Entitlement and arrogance in the face of real hardship. That's what's coming.

Yep, it's just confirmation of the tory view that law and order is for everyone else.

Certainly looks that way with people like Reese Mogg who think it's all just a game to push the limits of the law as far as they can.


300 years ago in France I'm afraid Jacob would have been amongst the first to have his head removed by way of execution .

That's 300 years ago but none the less that's irrelevant because if you create the same kind of consensus today you'll probably receive what's an applicable punishment today .

Which could be a jail term for a crime against the state and your own vested interests before the people .

Depends on the mood of the people and the government they elect I guess when and if this came to a head .

Jacob in Strangeways on a 10 year stretch is an interesting thought I have to say .

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #169 on January 28, 2022, 11:16:37 pm by River Don »
I'm still getting over that t**t claiming we now have a "modern" presidential system and if Johnson fails then we would need an election.

Anything. Anything. To achieve his ends.

The swell scum.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 11:24:40 pm by River Don »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #170 on January 29, 2022, 09:17:44 am by BillyStubbsTears »
This looks like it could be the cover up to end all cover ups.

The plan, apparently, is to publish all the parts of the Gray report that don't refer to the things that the Met is investigating.

So the redacted report will have no smoking gun.

Then if the Met investigate and report that there is nothing to justify them taking any action, the redacted parts of the Gray report can be shelved as irrelevant.

Is that realistic? Well the Electoral Commission gave the Met a file on illegal use of funds by the Leave side in the 2016 Ref. The Met sat on it for two years, while Johnson was elected, then summarily announced that there was no case to answer. To the best of my knowledge, they have never explained the basis of that decision. And attention moves on.

Here we go. Step 1 of the cover up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60166997

Step 2 will be Johnson crowing next week that he's released the report in full for all to see and as he said all along, there's nothing to see.

Step 3 will be the Met dragging out their investigation for weeks or months until everyone is bored or has forgotten that revulsion they felt when they first heard about Johnson's partying.

Step 4 will be Cressida Dick saying that while there may have been some contraventions of the letter of the law, there's nothing to warrant prosecutions.

Step 5 is Johnson standing up in Parliament saying "I told you all along that I'd been honest on this point. I've been entirely vindicated. But it's clear that there was a culture among staff where the rules were flouted, and I'm disgusted at that. I have sacked several of my No10 team."


Just watch them try to roll it out.

Everyone who applies their brain to this will know it is b*llocks.

But that's not what matters. Johnson is a new breed of politician. We've never had his like before. He has absolutely zero capacity for shame. All that matters to him is power. It doesn't matter to him if people know he's a lying bas**rd. What matters is whether they support him.

If this plan rolls out and he is still supported by a large enough number of voters, he might well survive. And then our democracy truly is off the edge of the cliff.

Step 1a is in place.
Gray is submitting a redacted report. Deputy Editor of Sky News says he's been informed that Gray will NOT be submitting an unredacted version for publication once the police investigation is over.

So, on police instruction, all the most sensitive parts of Gray's report will now never be published. It is 100% the choice of Cressida Dick what the public and Parliament get to see. That gives her a clear path to Step 4.

This stinks to high heaven. And they aren't even trying to hide what they are doing. Because, probably rightly, they think that not enough people care enough.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #171 on January 29, 2022, 09:23:13 am by Bentley Bullet »
Don't vote for the Tories again then.

albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #172 on January 29, 2022, 09:52:53 am by albie »
Step 4 is more likely to be token punishment of those who attended by giving them a fixed penalty fine.

Dick will then be able to conclude the investigation by pointing to the outcome for attendees, while keeping the redacted content from Sue Gray under wraps.

What we need now is a leak of the original report, as a public interest disclosure.
If that happens after Dick has given her whitewash, Bozo will then claim no knowledge of any attempt to cover the traces.

Tinpot doesn't do it justice.......anybody who can't see through this just does not want to look at what is in front of them.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #173 on January 29, 2022, 09:58:41 am by Glyn_Wigley »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/




Because the Prime Minister hadn't lied to Parliament about it then, that's why.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #174 on January 29, 2022, 10:05:37 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Albie.

Actually yes, there will have to be someone slapped with a fixed penalty in Step 4.

Even better if they can really kebab a civil servant for obstructing the course of justice and take them to trial. That will then give them a plausible reason why they demanded redactions in the Gray Report.

Frank Underwood and his team could not have played this one any better.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #175 on January 29, 2022, 10:09:36 am by BillyStubbsTears »
All this talk over a party in June 2020,  when it was first reported in June of that year no one gave a shit, why now?

https://order-order.com/2022/01/28/burns-claims-boris-denies-birthday-cake/




Because the Prime Minister hadn't lied to Parliament about it then, that's why.

Precisely.

If there's been one 5 minute cutting and sharing of a birthday cake with 2-3 people there in the office, no-one would have blinked an eye.

It's the scale of the socialising that first brought on the attention.

And then, the oldest truism in politics kicks in. It's not the original crime that gets you in big trouble. It's the crimes you commit in the cover up.

Johnson repeatedly lied to Parliament on this. No senior politician in history has ever been proven to have lied to Parliament and kept their job. 

tyke1962

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #176 on January 29, 2022, 10:10:02 am by tyke1962 »
This looks like it could be the cover up to end all cover ups.

The plan, apparently, is to publish all the parts of the Gray report that don't refer to the things that the Met is investigating.

So the redacted report will have no smoking gun.

Then if the Met investigate and report that there is nothing to justify them taking any action, the redacted parts of the Gray report can be shelved as irrelevant.

Is that realistic? Well the Electoral Commission gave the Met a file on illegal use of funds by the Leave side in the 2016 Ref. The Met sat on it for two years, while Johnson was elected, then summarily announced that there was no case to answer. To the best of my knowledge, they have never explained the basis of that decision. And attention moves on.

Here we go. Step 1 of the cover up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60166997

Step 2 will be Johnson crowing next week that he's released the report in full for all to see and as he said all along, there's nothing to see.

Step 3 will be the Met dragging out their investigation for weeks or months until everyone is bored or has forgotten that revulsion they felt when they first heard about Johnson's partying.

Step 4 will be Cressida Dick saying that while there may have been some contraventions of the letter of the law, there's nothing to warrant prosecutions.

Step 5 is Johnson standing up in Parliament saying "I told you all along that I'd been honest on this point. I've been entirely vindicated. But it's clear that there was a culture among staff where the rules were flouted, and I'm disgusted at that. I have sacked several of my No10 team."


Just watch them try to roll it out.

Everyone who applies their brain to this will know it is b*llocks.

But that's not what matters. Johnson is a new breed of politician. We've never had his like before. He has absolutely zero capacity for shame. All that matters to him is power. It doesn't matter to him if people know he's a lying bas**rd. What matters is whether they support him.

If this plan rolls out and he is still supported by a large enough number of voters, he might well survive. And then our democracy truly is off the edge of the cliff.

Step 1a is in place.
Gray is submitting a redacted report. Deputy Editor of Sky News says he's been informed that Gray will NOT be submitting an unredacted version for publication once the police investigation is over.

So, on police instruction, all the most sensitive parts of Gray's report will now never be published. It is 100% the choice of Cressida Dick what the public and Parliament get to see. That gives her a clear path to Step 4.

This stinks to high heaven. And they aren't even trying to hide what they are doing. Because, probably rightly, they think that not enough people care enough.

The question is Billy why do many people not care or simply shrug their  shoulders ?

Why have standards in public office fallen so low and are accepted by many ?

Interested to hear what you think .


albie

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #177 on January 29, 2022, 10:13:21 am by albie »
It looks very much like a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, which in a functioning democracy would lead to heavy penalties, exclusion from public life, and structural reforms to prevent any recurrence.

Unfortunately, it is clear that the UK is far from a functioning democracy any more....all pretense is just for show, to pull the wool over those eager to be deceived.

This is why BB saying don't vote Tory misses the point, it is the establishment at work, the Tories are a subset, an interest group within that power structure.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #178 on January 29, 2022, 10:15:19 am by BillyStubbsTears »
Tyke.

Because he got Brexit done. He was their man against the bas**rd foreigners and the Elite. He took back control.

Like I keep telling you, this isn't old style normal politics, where policies and reasoned arguments matter. It's a Culture War. If you don't get that, you'll never understand Johnson or his supporters in here or outside.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #179 on January 29, 2022, 10:22:05 am by BillyStubbsTears »
100% Albie.

This is a massive step on the road to authoritarianism.

Democracies don't suddenly stop existing. You don't go to bed one night in a democracy and wake the next morning with all your leaders wearing jackboots and demanding we all line up to swear allegiance to the Generalissimo.

They fall apart one brick at a time. When corruption and illegality stop being punished. And people with ambition and no principles realise that there is no incentive to do the right thing anymore. That there's a direct path to winning and retaining power by breaking the rules.

You keep your trappings. The elections and the veneer of processes. But once the threat of sanction for breaking the rules had gone, those trappings mean nothing. Real power lies with those who are vicious enough to seize and wield it.

 

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