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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 75863 times)

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belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #270 on February 01, 2022, 10:28:05 am by belton rover »
Ed Balls talking to Ian Blackford on GMB this morning:

“The House of Commons has rules. You were saying the Prime Minister should not break the rule of misleading the House of Commons.

“At the same time, you were undermining the rules of the House of Commons because you know full well the Speaker has to enforce the rules that you can’t call people a liar.


“It seems a bit disingenuous to me for you to claim you didn’t know what you were doing, you did that to get thrown out.”

They’re all the same.



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tommy toes

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #271 on February 01, 2022, 10:32:38 am by tommy toes »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #272 on February 01, 2022, 10:40:42 am by BillyStubbsTears »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Here's a serious problem.


When we try to discuss things in here, the interaction frequently goes down a rabbit hole of which this is a perfect example.

Examples are given of where people got specific calls wrong (believing Brexit would be economically beneficial, believing Johnson would be an honest, decent PM). Then that gets extrapolated by people who don't like that argument into somehow meaning that the person making it thinks everything the other side believes is stupid or knowingly held in bad faith.

It destroys grown up discussion, because it immediately puts people in opposing trenches where they refuse to listen to anything the other side puts forward.

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #273 on February 01, 2022, 10:47:26 am by belton rover »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Here's a serious problem.


When we try to discuss things in here, the interaction frequently goes down a rabbit hole of which this is a perfect example.

Examples are given of where people got specific calls wrong (believing Brexit would be economically beneficial, believing Johnson would be an honest, decent PM). Then that gets extrapolated by people who don't like that argument into somehow meaning that the person making it thinks everything the other side believes is stupid or knowingly held in bad faith.

It destroys grown up discussion, because it immediately puts people in opposing trenches where they refuse to listen to anything the other side puts forward.

Billy. Why on earth are you commenting on a response to my post? It doesn’t involve you, it was not directed towards you, and you are supposedly ignoring me.

And you have the nerve to talk about grown up discussion!

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #274 on February 01, 2022, 11:01:12 am by belton rover »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Trying to disregard Billy’s preconceived nonsense, Tommy, my point is it is very difficult to debate anything regarding Johnson or this Government with you.
I never inferred that you thought your brother (or me, for that matter) was a serial fool. But with Johnson, you appear to think there is no debate to be had.
That’s wrong, but unfortunately, it’s another example of the ‘with me or agin me’ state of discussion we are trapped in at the moment.


Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #275 on February 01, 2022, 11:03:45 am by Bentley Bullet »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Here's a serious problem.


When we try to discuss things in here, the interaction frequently goes down a rabbit hole of which this is a perfect example.

Examples are given of where people got specific calls wrong (believing Brexit would be economically beneficial, believing Johnson would be an honest, decent PM). Then that gets extrapolated by people who don't like that argument into somehow meaning that the person making it thinks everything the other side believes is stupid or knowingly held in bad faith.

It destroys grown up discussion, because it immediately puts people in opposing trenches where they refuse to listen to anything the other side puts forward.
Johnson has had the most difficult job as PM in history. He hasn't had the chance to show his true effectiveness yet.

How do we know yet that Brexit won't be economically beneficial to us?

You see, No, in fact, you don't see, there are so many things you use as ammunition for your attacks that are so misleading, it's hard to know where to begin.

Maybe sometimes you'd be better just firing offensive insults and skipping the bullshit.

tommy toes

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #276 on February 01, 2022, 11:14:41 am by tommy toes »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Trying to disregard Billy’s preconceived nonsense, Tommy, my point is it is very difficult to debate anything regarding Johnson or this Government with you.
I never inferred that you thought your brother (or me, for that matter) was a serial fool. But with Johnson, you appear to think there is no debate to be had.
That’s wrong, but unfortunately, it’s another example of the ‘with me or agin me’ state of discussion we are trapped in at the moment.


Here we go again.
You said that i believe that anyone who doesn't think like me is a fool.
Which kind of infers that on any subject anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. This is not so as has been proved to me on many occasions throughout my life.

By the way BST is spot on as usual.

Ldr

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #277 on February 01, 2022, 11:15:45 am by Ldr »
Fair play TT, we can all be wrong at times (maybe not as much as Johnson usually)

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #278 on February 01, 2022, 11:17:15 am by BillyStubbsTears »
BB.

1) On Brexit, the Bank of England tells us that we have lost £727 per second over the past 5 years de to the Brexit vote. You are perfectly at liberty to explain how we a) stop that loss and b) make up the difference. Please point me to some specific policies that you reckon can turn that around.

2) On Johnson, I was in this instance talking about his honesty and decency. I assume, since you've never once said anything to the contrary, that you are happy with him on those issues, but in the wider population, there's a growing realisation that they've been had by a pathological liar, and that having a pathological liar in charge is a very bad thing. That doesn't mean I think those people are incapable of getting any decision right. Whereas you, by your own words, are so against the people you see on the other side of the debate that you'd rather be wrong and support a liar than admit they might have a point.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #279 on February 01, 2022, 11:21:00 am by Bentley Bullet »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Trying to disregard Billy’s preconceived nonsense, Tommy, my point is it is very difficult to debate anything regarding Johnson or this Government with you.
I never inferred that you thought your brother (or me, for that matter) was a serial fool. But with Johnson, you appear to think there is no debate to be had.
That’s wrong, but unfortunately, it’s another example of the ‘with me or agin me’ state of discussion we are trapped in at the moment.


Here we go again.
You said that i believe that anyone who doesn't think like me is a fool.
Which kind of infers that on any subject anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. This is not so as has been proved to me on many occasions throughout my life.

By the way BST is spot on as usual.

BST is not spot on, as usual.

tommy toes

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #280 on February 01, 2022, 11:35:35 am by tommy toes »
Belton.
You are right that I will hear nothing good about Johnson and this Government.
They keep going on about how they've rolled out the most successful vaccine project, when blow me, I thought it was the scientists and the NHS who'd done all the work.
Brexit is a disaster and as time goes by we'll all recognise that.
Just think about it, what's good about getting trade deals with Australia and NZ, when we had better deals with no red tape with countries on our doorstep.
Doesn't make any sense.
Still. we've taken back control and have £350m going into the NHS every week

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #281 on February 01, 2022, 11:37:17 am by belton rover »
My older brother voted Tory for the first time at the last election, simply because he was seduced by the Johnson rhetoric and charm.

We nearly fell out as I called him a fool, telling him that Johnson was a liar and a charlatan who couldn't lay straight in in bed.

Well he rang me tonight and apologised for his mistake, which is massive for him as he's always known better than me in his opinion.

Who knows, BB might be next.




Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.

Look, I among many others knew what Johnson was like and predicted it at the time and told my brother then.
Ive been wrong and foolish on many occasions but on this occasion he was and I told him so.
Doesn't mean him, or you for that matter, are serial fools.

Trying to disregard Billy’s preconceived nonsense, Tommy, my point is it is very difficult to debate anything regarding Johnson or this Government with you.
I never inferred that you thought your brother (or me, for that matter) was a serial fool. But with Johnson, you appear to think there is no debate to be had.
That’s wrong, but unfortunately, it’s another example of the ‘with me or agin me’ state of discussion we are trapped in at the moment.


Here we go again.
You said that i believe that anyone who doesn't think like me is a fool.
Which kind of infers that on any subject anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. This is not so as has been proved to me on many occasions throughout my life.

By the way BST is spot on as usual.

I did not.
I said ‘perhaps’ your brother does. And just to be clear, the conversation was specifically about Johnson. Perhaps I needed to make that absolutely crystal clear.
The ONLY inferences being made here are incorrect ones by you.

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #282 on February 01, 2022, 11:43:25 am by belton rover »
Belton.
You are right that I will hear nothing good about Johnson and this Government.
They keep going on about how they've rolled out the most successful vaccine project, when blow me, I thought it was the scientists and the NHS who'd done all the work.
Brexit is a disaster and as time goes by we'll all recognise that.
Just think about it, what's good about getting trade deals with Australia and NZ, when we had better deals with no red tape with countries on our doorstep.
Doesn't make any sense.
Still. we've taken back control and have £350m going into the NHS every week

I appreciate your honesty. I wish other like minded people would be as honest as you.

You refuse to hear anyone speak any good of Boris Johnson. I respect that, I really do.

So what are you debating, exactly?

tommy toes

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #283 on February 01, 2022, 11:47:55 am by tommy toes »
Belton.
What you wrote is there in black and white. There was no 'perhaps'
I ain't going down this road with you again.
Have a good day.
I'm off to do some unpaid work for the village now.

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #284 on February 01, 2022, 11:56:07 am by belton rover »
Belton.
What you wrote is there in black and white. There was no 'perhaps'
I ain't going down this road with you again.
Have a good day.
I'm off to do some unpaid work for the village now.

My mistake, Tommy. I wrote ‘maybe’, not ‘perhaps’. It means EXACTLY the same thing.

Here’s the full quote:

‘Maybe he just felt there was no point in having rational debate with you because you believe that anyone who doesn’t think like you is a fool.’

Well done for supporting your local community.


drfchound

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #285 on February 01, 2022, 11:57:12 am by drfchound »
TT is the kind of person who really puts me off the Labour party
Good

No surprise to see the yapping hound feels the same.

Yes he does.
It isn’t hard to see why.

Fair enough.

I have no regard at all for you either, whereas I respect BB for his forthrightness.

TT. Your leader BST doesn’t share your respect for BB and regularly speaks down to him, as would a teacher to a naughty boy.
I don’t think that BB voted Tory and neither did I.
For my own part, I have said that I think it is time for Johnson to go and I think the current situation has gone way beyond he keeps his credibility.
I also agree with what BB has said about the difficulties that this government has had to deal with in the last two years and genuinely I don’t think that Starmer and his crew could have done any better.
Of course no one can know whether that it true.
They can only surmise.
What I do dislike is what you and a few others on here do, which is mock any views that non Labour voters have which don’t support your way of thinking.
For you to fall out with your brother for the way he voted backs that up.
I could never imagine falling out with my brother, especially over something as trivial as who he voted for.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #286 on February 01, 2022, 12:19:24 pm by Bentley Bullet »
BB.

1) On Brexit, the Bank of England tells us that we have lost £727 per second over the past 5 years de to the Brexit vote. You are perfectly at liberty to explain how we a) stop that loss and b) make up the difference. Please point me to some specific policies that you reckon can turn that around.

2) On Johnson, I was in this instance talking about his honesty and decency. I assume, since you've never once said anything to the contrary, that you are happy with him on those issues, but in the wider population, there's a growing realisation that they've been had by a pathological liar, and that having a pathological liar in charge is a very bad thing. That doesn't mean I think those people are incapable of getting any decision right. Whereas you, by your own words, are so against the people you see on the other side of the debate that you'd rather be wrong and support a liar than admit they might have a point.

1) There you go again. I'm not talking about what has happened, I'm talking about what might happen in the future, and seeing as we voted democratically to leave the EU we have no other option.

 The Bank of England has been wrong with their forecasts in the past and could be wrong this time.

 If we'd have made a final decision on the outcome of the Rovers v Plymouth game on Saturday after 20 minutes we'd have been celebrating and Plymouth would have wanted their manager sacked.

2) I'll answer this if or when you answer point 1.

tommy toes

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #287 on February 01, 2022, 12:21:00 pm by tommy toes »
Hound.
Find evidence of me mocking anyone. I hardly ever post on here. Disagree strongly yes.
I didn't fall out with my brother, only nearly.
I feel passionately about Johnson being exposed for what he is, and always has been.
On other subjects I'm not too bothered either way.
And stop calling BST my leader.
Can't help you're usual bit of sh*t stirring can you?

big fat yorkshire pudding

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #288 on February 01, 2022, 12:24:00 pm by big fat yorkshire pudding »
It doesn't have to be one or the other though.  It's fine to think that Boris is a Kitson but also think that the opposition isn't up to much either.  A bit like the football tonight, I'm not wholely convinced that Rovers are good enough to get the job done, but it doesn't mean I'm buying a ticket in the away end.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #289 on February 01, 2022, 12:30:13 pm by SydneyRover »
So you think no one could beat someone that's kicked around 30,000 own goals pud?

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #290 on February 01, 2022, 12:31:05 pm by belton rover »
It doesn't have to be one or the other though.  It's fine to think that Boris is a Kitson but also think that the opposition isn't up to much either.  A bit like the football tonight, I'm not wholely convinced that Rovers are good enough to get the job done, but it doesn't mean I'm buying a ticket in the away end.

I completely agree with that, Big.
Unfortunately, there is a blind spot with many posters on here where that sensible rationale is dismissed when it comes to certain topics.

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #291 on February 01, 2022, 12:34:54 pm by SydneyRover »
The first duty of a government is to protect it's own people.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #292 on February 01, 2022, 12:42:36 pm by Bentley Bullet »
Continuing the football theme, the trouble with BST and the people who stick to his views like Limpets is he thinks he's the referee and the Limpets act like his linesmen.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #293 on February 01, 2022, 01:07:45 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
Whereas BB is the t**t that throws flares onto the pitch.

Bentley Bullet

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #294 on February 01, 2022, 01:10:51 pm by Bentley Bullet »
.....And Mr Wiggerly is the nerd who still wears them.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #295 on February 01, 2022, 01:26:18 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
That one didn't quite reach the touchline.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #296 on February 01, 2022, 01:43:40 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Back on the topic of truth, standards and decency in politics.

Raab was wheeled out on R4 this morning to protect Big Dog.

He was asked if he would dare repeat Johnson's disgusting dig that Starmer had protected Jimmy Savile. Bearing in mind that you can't be prosecuted for slander for what you say in the House, but you can if you repeat it outside.

Raab declined.

The interviewer asked him if he would therefore criticise Johnson for saying it in Parliament.

Can you guess how he replied?

He said accusations like that were (and I quote) "part of the cut and thrust of Parliamentary debate."

Just read that again.

The Deputy PM thinks wrongly accusing your opponent of protecting a serial paedophile is fair game.

Imagine senior people in the Thatcher or Major or even Cameron Govts acting like this? What the f**king hell has happened to standards? Truth? Common f**king decency?

 Nye Bevan was nearly right all those years ago. SOME Tories truly are lower than vermin.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 02:38:38 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #297 on February 01, 2022, 02:38:29 pm by belton rover »
Back on the topic of truth, standards and decency in politics.

Raab was wheeled out on R4 this morning to protect Big Dog.

He was asked if he would dare repeat Johnson's disgusting dig that Starmer had protected Jimmy Savile. Bearing in mind that you can't be prosecuted for slander for what you say in the House, but you can if you repeat it outside.

Raab declined.

The interviewer asked him if he would therefore criticise Johnson for saying it in Parliament.

Can you guess how he replied?

He said accusations like that were (and I quote) "part of the cut and thrust of Parliamentary debate."

Just read that again.

The Deputy PM things wrongly accusing your opponent of protecting a serial paedophile is fair game.

Imagine senior people in the Thatcher or Major or even Cameron Govts acting like this? What the f**king hell has happened to standards? Truth? Common f**king decency?

 Nye Bevan was nearly right all those years ago. SOME Tories truly are lower than vermin.
What’s the difference between that and ‘Scumgate’?

Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #298 on February 01, 2022, 02:51:01 pm by Filo »
Back on the topic of truth, standards and decency in politics.

Raab was wheeled out on R4 this morning to protect Big Dog.

He was asked if he would dare repeat Johnson's disgusting dig that Starmer had protected Jimmy Savile. Bearing in mind that you can't be prosecuted for slander for what you say in the House, but you can if you repeat it outside.

Raab declined.

The interviewer asked him if he would therefore criticise Johnson for saying it in Parliament.

Can you guess how he replied?

He said accusations like that were (and I quote) "part of the cut and thrust of Parliamentary debate."

Just read that again.

The Deputy PM things wrongly accusing your opponent of protecting a serial paedophile is fair game.

Imagine senior people in the Thatcher or Major or even Cameron Govts acting like this? What the f**king hell has happened to standards? Truth? Common f**king decency?

 Nye Bevan was nearly right all those years ago. SOME Tories truly are lower than vermin.
What’s the difference between that and ‘Scumgate’?

Rayner has said it outside of the House, Raab daren’t repeat Johnsons words outside of the House

belton rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #299 on February 01, 2022, 02:56:59 pm by belton rover »
I meant in her own party members’ responses.

 

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