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Author Topic: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson  (Read 75979 times)

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Branton Red

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #570 on April 07, 2022, 08:42:34 pm by Branton Red »
He's a nice lad Branton (I know him vaguely) but as he has shown here anyone can let themselves be brainwashed if they want to.

Which is the objective truth at the heart of this thread. Do you want to be governed by a government who are judged by scruitny of an open factual discussion of their actions - or do you just want to believe what they want you to believe and make the facts suit?

Wilts sorry but it's the laziest of arguments that somebody who disagrees with you has been brainwashed. My views are wholly my own. Neither am I a fan of the Tories esp Boris Johnson who I've described variously on this forum as: -

- "treating the electorate with contempt"; - "a weak/disreputable individual"; - "record and actions as PM are appalling in many areas"; - "has a lack of common sense/discretion"

Does this sound like someone who has been brainwashed by the Johnson Government?!

PS Your Gove quote from earlier. He wasn't talking about staying in the Single Market after Brexit but talking up the chances of us striking a free trade deal with the EU in order to stay in the "free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey". Hint: the clue to this is in your quote as Turkey isn't in the EU or the Single Market.



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wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #571 on April 07, 2022, 09:09:22 pm by wilts rover »
He's a nice lad Branton (I know him vaguely) but as he has shown here anyone can let themselves be brainwashed if they want to.

Which is the objective truth at the heart of this thread. Do you want to be governed by a government who are judged by scruitny of an open factual discussion of their actions - or do you just want to believe what they want you to believe and make the facts suit?

Wilts sorry but it's the laziest of arguments that somebody who disagrees with you has been brainwashed. My views are wholly my own. Neither am I a fan of the Tories esp Boris Johnson who I've described variously on this forum as: -

- "treating the electorate with contempt"; - "a weak/disreputable individual"; - "record and actions as PM are appalling in many areas"; - "has a lack of common sense/discretion"

Does this sound like someone who has been brainwashed by the Johnson Government?!

PS Your Gove quote from earlier. He wasn't talking about staying in the Single Market after Brexit but talking up the chances of us striking a free trade deal with the EU in order to stay in the "free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey". Hint: the clue to this is in your quote as Turkey isn't in the EU or the Single Market.

I wasn't referring to the Johnson government Branton.

Nor was Gove referring to a free trade deal. Hint - he doesnt mention a free trade deal but that the UK will  'remain' in a trading zone.

He apparently wanted a 'Norway' syle deal - how does that go again
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-discussed-keeping-britain-13021694

Branton Red

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #572 on April 07, 2022, 09:26:26 pm by Branton Red »

I wasn't referring to the Johnson government Branton.

Nor was Gove referring to a free trade deal. Hint - he doesnt mention a free trade deal but that the UK will  'remain' in a trading zone.


Wrong. Read the whole speech www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-gove/michael-gove-vote-leave_b_9728548.html

"The In campaign often argues that we would find it impossible to reach a trading agreement with EU nations after we vote leave.
.......
There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU. After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone. The suggestion that Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and the Ukraine would remain part of this free trade area - and Britain would be on the outside with just Belarus - is as credible as Jean-Claude Juncker joining Ukip. Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."

To repeat he wasn't talking about staying in the Single Market after Brexit but talking up the chances of us striking a free trade deal with the EU in order to stay in the "free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey".

Hint: check your sources thoroughly before quoting them - reading what you want into half-quotes is ironically just what you'd expect from someone who has actually been brainwashed.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 09:38:32 pm by Branton Red »

SydneyRover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #573 on April 07, 2022, 11:23:31 pm by SydneyRover »

Can't answer a complete repudiation of your bullshit? Then flounce off in  huff! :silly:

Glyn you claim you've been a Customs official for 20 years this suggests you're an adult; yet you resort to name calling the preserve of the playground which suggests you're a child.

Saying the below leaflet doesn't say the words "Single Market" isn't a complete repudiation of my points; it just suggests you're a child of reading age.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/voteleave/pages/2318/attachments/original/1458915760/Vote_Leave_8pg_leaflet_print.pdf?1458915760

As an expert in the field you should be aware that you can't abandon freedom of movement of labour and stay in the Single Market. Therefore in Point 3 Leave are proposing leaving the Single Market.

You should also be aware that you can't make your own trade deals and stay in the Customs Union. Therefore in Point 4 Leave are proposing leaving the Customs Union.

Now can you prove you're an adult and either accept these facts or alternatively counter them with reasoned views of your own without descending into silly aggression, swearing, name calling or just making simplistic generic points? Try actually reading and then considering my words first before replying.

The leaflet in question is nothing more than a fluffy sales brochure and doesn't go on to talk about the implication and facts of the points made on it, take the comment about ''important countries like Australia'' are you kidding this fabulous trade deal is worth 0.8% of gdp and not till 2035, so it shouldn't have been taken seriously.

''Vote leave and possibly die before you make any money''
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 11:29:06 pm by SydneyRover »

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #574 on April 08, 2022, 10:06:55 am by Glyn_Wigley »

I wasn't referring to the Johnson government Branton.

Nor was Gove referring to a free trade deal. Hint - he doesnt mention a free trade deal but that the UK will  'remain' in a trading zone.


Wrong. Read the whole speech www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-gove/michael-gove-vote-leave_b_9728548.html

"The In campaign often argues that we would find it impossible to reach a trading agreement with EU nations after we vote leave.
.......
There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU. After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone. The suggestion that Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and the Ukraine would remain part of this free trade area - and Britain would be on the outside with just Belarus - is as credible as Jean-Claude Juncker joining Ukip. Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."

To repeat he wasn't talking about staying in the Single Market after Brexit but talking up the chances of us striking a free trade deal with the EU in order to stay in the "free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey".

Hint: check your sources thoroughly before quoting them - reading what you want into half-quotes is ironically just what you'd expect from someone who has actually been brainwashed.

Hint: You check what version of 'free trade' Gove is bullshitting you with.

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #575 on April 08, 2022, 10:08:28 am by Glyn_Wigley »
He's a nice lad Branton (I know him vaguely) but as he has shown here anyone can let themselves be brainwashed if they want to.

Which is the objective truth at the heart of this thread. Do you want to be governed by a government who are judged by scruitny of an open factual discussion of their actions - or do you just want to believe what they want you to believe and make the facts suit?

Wilts sorry but it's the laziest of arguments that somebody who disagrees with you has been brainwashed. My views are wholly my own. Neither am I a fan of the Tories esp Boris Johnson who I've described variously on this forum as: -

- "treating the electorate with contempt"; - "a weak/disreputable individual"; - "record and actions as PM are appalling in many areas"; - "has a lack of common sense/discretion"

Does this sound like someone who has been brainwashed by the Johnson Government?!

PS Your Gove quote from earlier. He wasn't talking about staying in the Single Market after Brexit but talking up the chances of us striking a free trade deal with the EU in order to stay in the "free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey". Hint: the clue to this is in your quote as Turkey isn't in the EU or the Single Market.

PS - Turkey IS in the EU Customs Union.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #576 on April 08, 2022, 12:57:54 pm by wilts rover »

I wasn't referring to the Johnson government Branton.

Nor was Gove referring to a free trade deal. Hint - he doesnt mention a free trade deal but that the UK will  'remain' in a trading zone.


Wrong. Read the whole speech www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-gove/michael-gove-vote-leave_b_9728548.html

"The In campaign often argues that we would find it impossible to reach a trading agreement with EU nations after we vote leave.
.......
There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU. After we vote to leave we will remain in this zone. The suggestion that Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and the Ukraine would remain part of this free trade area - and Britain would be on the outside with just Belarus - is as credible as Jean-Claude Juncker joining Ukip. Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone's interests."

To repeat he wasn't talking about staying in the Single Market after Brexit but talking up the chances of us striking a free trade deal with the EU in order to stay in the "free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey".

Hint: check your sources thoroughly before quoting them - reading what you want into half-quotes is ironically just what you'd expect from someone who has actually been brainwashed.

If he wasn't talking about the Single Market then why did he only mention we would be like countries in the Single Market.

If he was talking about having a Free Trade agreement outside the Single Market - then why did he say we would NOT be like Belorus - a country who have a free trade agreement outside the Single Market?

The quote was accurate. Your reading of it is, errr...

Branton Red

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #577 on April 09, 2022, 11:05:25 am by Branton Red »
Good grief! Have you not heard of Google? Check your 'facts' before you post on them.

Countries in the Single Market: All EU member states, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Single_Market#/media/File:EU_Single_Market.svg

Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and Ukraine are not in the Single Market.

Belarus does not have a free trade deal with the EU. The EU refuse to grant them one, quite correctly, due to the lack of democracy in Belarus https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/belarus/index_en.htm

Therefore he is clearly talking about the chances of striking a free trade deal not staying in the Single Market.

Want further proof? From later in the same speech: -

"It is sometimes claimed that we will only get free trade if we accept free movement. But the EU has free trade deals with nations that obviously do not involve free movement."

You cannot abolish freedom of movement and stay in the Single Market.

Have the good grace to admit that you're wrong on this.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 06:56:00 pm by Branton Red »

Glyn_Wigley

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #578 on April 09, 2022, 10:03:30 pm by Glyn_Wigley »
It depends what you're deciding to call a 'free trade deal'. That's where Gove is baffling you with bullshit.

rich1471

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #579 on April 12, 2022, 01:51:05 pm by rich1471 »
Just got his fine has Boris and richi ,talk your way out of this one Bonzo

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #580 on April 12, 2022, 02:03:31 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
This
https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1513862592770543617

Deliberately and knowingly misleading Parliament.

In ANY other era, this is a stone cold resigning issue.

Ldr

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #581 on April 12, 2022, 02:04:04 pm by Ldr »
Just got his fine has Boris and richi ,talk your way out of this one Bonzo

Please don’t, just go

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #582 on April 12, 2022, 02:14:47 pm by River Don »
This
https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1513862592770543617

Deliberately and knowingly misleading Parliament.

In ANY other era, this is a stone cold resigning issue.

Somehow I think this era will prove to be different.

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #583 on April 12, 2022, 02:21:43 pm by wilts rover »
And Carrie - therefore at least one of the fines is for a event in the Johnson's private flat.

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #584 on April 12, 2022, 02:29:43 pm by River Don »
Just to be clear.

We now have a criminal Prime Minister.

We now have a criminal Chancellor.


Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #585 on April 12, 2022, 02:29:54 pm by Filo »
Just got his fine has Boris and richi ,talk your way out of this one Bonzo

Given he always maintained there were no party’s I would assume he will be appealing this gross miscarriage of justice?

Ldr

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #586 on April 12, 2022, 02:38:49 pm by Ldr »
This really now does have the feel of the end, same feeling as when John Majors govt was hit with some new sleaze every day.

Ldr

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #587 on April 12, 2022, 02:40:09 pm by Ldr »
Just to be clear.

We now have a criminal Prime Minister.

We now have a criminal Chancellor.



Technically not, fixed penalty notices for covid do not lead to a criminal record according to the bbc

ChrisBx

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #588 on April 12, 2022, 02:45:30 pm by ChrisBx »
Most, if not all, families will have experienced some awful periods over the last two years. Personally, one of my grandparents spent much of the final two years of her life unable to see family members, with human contact often limited to that from care workers.

Others will have lost family members who died alone. All while these criminals held party after party. They then lied to us, seemingly with no shame.

They should both be out of office by the end of the day.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 02:47:38 pm by ChrisBx »

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #589 on April 12, 2022, 02:49:55 pm by River Don »
Just to be clear.

We now have a criminal Prime Minister.

We now have a criminal Chancellor.



Technically not, fixed penalty notices for covid do not lead to a criminal record according to the bbc

Ah yes. If they were to appeal and failed. Then they would get a criminal record.

Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #590 on April 12, 2022, 02:53:40 pm by Filo »
Where does the Sue Gray report stand in all this now, it should be published un redacted now

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #591 on April 12, 2022, 02:58:20 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
Most, if not all, families will have experienced some awful periods over the last two years. Personally, one of my grandparents spent much of the final two years of her life unable to see family members, with human contact often limited to that from care workers.

Others will have lost family members who died alone. All while these criminals held party after party. They then lied to us, seemingly with no shame.

They should both be out of office by the end of the day.

100%.

My wife's grandmother died alone in an Italian hospital 10 months ago, with us not being able to visit her for her final 10 months on earth.

My mother had a week in hospital with a heart attack during lockdown. None of the family were able to visit her.

And these, unprincipled, entitled f**kers were holding f**king parties. And then lying about it. If they survive this, we don't deserve to have a functioning democracy.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2022, 03:03:29 pm by BillyStubbsTears »

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #592 on April 12, 2022, 03:07:04 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
One parting gift from Cressida Dick of course. Imposing these fines just as Parliament goes into a two week Easter break. So Johnson doesn't have to face the Commons and answer for his crimes and his lies for a fortnight.

There will be a massive media campaign by No10 now to push an explanation, and by the time he has to face the House, this will be old news. Simply disgraceful by Dick.

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #593 on April 12, 2022, 03:07:56 pm by River Don »
For months we could not visit my mother in law while she suffered, dying of cancer at home alone.

We finally did get to see her on the day she passed in hospital. She could not speak but they told us she could hear us. We don't know.

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #594 on April 12, 2022, 03:16:56 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
One for the history books.

Boris Johnson is the first sitting PM in the history of the UK to be formally found guilty of a crime.

Some of us did warn folk what this man was like.

Ldr

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #595 on April 12, 2022, 03:17:57 pm by Ldr »
One for the history books.

Boris Johnson is the first sitting PM in the history of the UK to be formally found guilty of a crime.

Some of us did warn folk what this man was like.

And that is why he has to go

Filo

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #596 on April 12, 2022, 03:20:35 pm by Filo »
More importantly the Chancellors wife has enquired if fines are tax deductible. She’s asking ‘ for a friend’

BillyStubbsTears

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #597 on April 12, 2022, 03:26:27 pm by BillyStubbsTears »
One for the history books.

Boris Johnson is the first sitting PM in the history of the UK to be formally found guilty of a crime.

Some of us did warn folk what this man was like.

And that is why he has to go

Well there's one copper-bottomed guarantee about a man (sic) who wouldn't recognise a moral if it sat on his face and farted. He's not going to resign without the Tory party insisting he goes. If he possibly can, he will ride this out.

And the initial signs don't look good.

Andrew Bridgen MP has refused to say that he will re-instate his letter of No Confidence.

Roger Gale MP who was one of the first to submit a letter of No Confidence now says Johnson shouldn't be got rid of because of Ukraine. By which logic, Lloyd-George and Churchill would never have been PM, because we shouldn't have deposed Asquith and Chamberlain during a war.

This is very simple. If the Tory MPs don't turf him out THEY are as much to blame as he is.

River Don

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #598 on April 12, 2022, 03:32:20 pm by River Don »
Meanwhile,

In the dungeon under Barnard Castle, Dominic slowly tears the foil from the neck of an ice cold bottle of champagne...

wilts rover

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Re: Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson
« Reply #599 on April 12, 2022, 03:36:43 pm by wilts rover »
Where does the Sue Gray report stand in all this now, it should be published un redacted now

An updated report on lockdown parties in No 10 will be published by Sue Gray once police finish their inquiries, Downing Street has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60210893

 

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