Maybe this will help restore faith and pride in the police.

[BobG]

Christ Sammy. The Tory party has, from time immemorial, prided itself on its 'tough on crime' persona. Mrs Thatcher won elections on that very platform. A succession of right wing Home Secretary's have, for decades, introduced stiffer and stiffer penalties. The Labour Party followed suit. Tony Blair's government introduced more new crimes than any government in history.

And here we are. With you saying we need tougher penalties....I think 60 years of history suggests tougher and tougher penalties have clearly had no impact whatever. Maybe there is another approach... Try Portugal for example. A stunningly succesful change in approach to drug abuse has cut drug related crime a thousand fold. Lol. That's  an exaggeration, but it is huge. And we all know drug related crime is behind a very large proportion of all crimes.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

thanks Bob, finally a bit of sanity in the debate.

[SydneyRover]

Do not confuse PNC with PND SR. Two very, very different databases.

Pnc checks convictions and wanted markers etc. At the roadside you can check driving licence status and insurance etc. It does other things too.
It’s National.

PND, the police National database was designed so that police forces could share intelligence between each other. It was brought in post Soham.  It’s a much newer database.So that Soham never, ever happened again.
It should be updated very regularly so that Intel is up to date.
It isn’t. Shockingly so.
Why? Because there are simply not the staff to do it. Or enough hours in the day. Hmmm, heard this before?
So for those hanging their hat on this policing review report, crack on.
It’s a wish list. Nothing more than that. Recommendations.
Many of which will have lip service paid to, or simply ignored as not cost effective or operationally viable.
Heard it all before. Time and time again.

The PNC was set up in 1974 and 48 years old

[normal rules]

I’m fully aware of when pnc was set up.
My reference was regarding reports. And I evidenced the Bichard report and subsequent setting up of the PND.
This did not happen till June 2011. Post Soham enquiry.

[SydneyRover]

So there is no confusion then.

[phil old leake]

No there’s not
Quite simple really

[SydneyRover]

No there’s not
Quite simple really

Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.

[normal rules]

No there’s not
Quite simple really

Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.

Without boring you with the detail SR. PND is not a dynamic system that can be used at say the roadside. It’s complex and requires time to retrieve and analyse data. Plus there are limited licences for its use. So only certain people can use it. And then their are strict protocols about what you can go on there for. It’s not a one stop shop for intelligence retrieval. It’s quite frankly rubbish and not fit for policing in the 21st c.
It requires a whole new system. One that is windows based and allows for quick time use for everyone.
Won’t happen though as it will cost too much.
Someone in the home office will make a few quid though no doubt out of some other equally garbage software replacement.
Like I said, reports look wonderfully confidence inspiring and positive.
Reality will be more like this season for rovers.

[drfchound]

No there’s not
Quite simple really

Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.

Syd, you do a lot of guessing don’t you.

[SydneyRover]

Yep, I may have misnamed it but the report does say that that particular one will not be able to be supported and needs replacing like now. It goes on to name the areas where most crime is committed and that the technology and training for police needs a massive upgrade to tackle it.

A bit if back tracking in that post Syd.
You misnamed it because you didn’t understand it. What a cop out!!

 

[SydneyRover]

No there’s not
Quite simple really

Correct phil, it's one of the many recommendations to upgrade the system and train officers to use it, but you would know that already I'm guessing.

Without boring you with the detail SR. PND is not a dynamic system that can be used at say the roadside. It’s complex and requires time to retrieve and analyse data. Plus there are limited licences for its use. So only certain people can use it. And then their are strict protocols about what you can go on there for. It’s not a one stop shop for intelligence retrieval. It’s quite frankly rubbish and not fit for policing in the 21st c.
It requires a whole new system. One that is windows based and allows for quick time use for everyone.
Won’t happen though as it will cost too much.
Someone in the home office will make a few quid though no doubt out of some other equally garbage software replacement.
Like I said, reports look wonderfully confidence inspiring and positive.
Reality will be more like this season for rovers.

No you're not boring me NR I never disputed what you're saying, if you'd read the report it says quite a lot about upgrades to technology, specialisation and training, if a system cannot be supported further than the system will have to be replaced.

''Like I said, reports look wonderfully confidence inspiring and positive'' not sure how you would know this though.

[SydneyRover]

''Charing Cross: Met Police vow to 'root out' bad officers''

''The Met Police has vowed to "root out people who do not belong in the force" following an investigation into harassment and racism in a police unit.

The police watchdog discovered "disgraceful" misogyny, discrimination and sexual harassment in a police unit based at Charing Cross police station.

Following the investigation, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) made 15 recommendations.

The force has accepted all of the recommendations''

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-61032343

https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/operation-hotton-recommendations-metropolitan-police-service-september-2021

Good coppers will be applauding.

[SydneyRover]

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Bas Javid

Dear Mr Javid, on behalf of like minded people across our third tier football forum I wish to register our disappointment at your total knee jerk reaction and complete capitulation in accepting all the recommendations following the inquiry into the so-called problems at Charing Cross police station. That you are to implement these changes across the Met is a huge mistake and could possibly see the local areas flooded with more undesirables.

We find it troubling that you will accept the views of these lone wolf troublemakers over those that regard themselves as pillows of society, ex-coppers, mates of coppers, family of coppers people with only the community at heart, do not allow extremist views to cloud your judgement on such serious matters.

We suggest you look elsewhere to find the rot in society such as those that criticise the judiciary when not happy with outcomes, the bbc-especially the bbc, anyone left of Ghengis Khan is bound to be suspect plus anyone that has moved or lives more than five klm from the old Belle Vue Stadium.

We hope you accept our advice in good faith

PS, did you know it never rains in Australia?

[phil old leake]

Was it ever in doubt that the MPS would just roll over and accept everything

Can you imagine a better way to end your career than to challenge the fact that the majority of your staff are well meaning, genuine, honest, hard working, people who are not racist and misogynistic.

This will obviously cascade it way down to every force in the UK

It goes without saying that every organisation of any size will have bad apples and staff that don’t meet certain requirements. These people should be dealt with and where necessary disciplined as individuals

[SydneyRover]

Was it ever in doubt that the MPS would just roll over and accept everything

Can you imagine a better way to end your career than to challenge the fact that the majority of your staff are well meaning, genuine, honest, hard working, people who are not racist and misogynistic.

This will obviously cascade it way down to every force in the UK

It goes without saying that every organisation of any size will have bad apples and staff that don’t meet certain requirements. These people should be dealt with and where necessary disciplined as individuals

I think you are still viewing the problem from the pov of the police rather than the society they should serve. The police are there to serve, that women, non whites and and in a lot of cases just young people and those that cannot afford good representation are not given the same respect as white males is a problem and has been a growing problem for some time.

Look at it like a computer system, it can only be upgraded so many time before it has to be rebuilt. It is unfortunate that the service was underfunded to such a degree by the tories that 20,000 more were/are required to give the service its full compliment and it's unfortunate that this coincided with the underfunding of many community services which left many destitute, starving and of course leading to unrest.

The circumstance which led to the disaster that was Charing Cross should never have been allowed to happen but there was noone in the MET that could or was prepared to step in and sort it, including Dick. There should be no dead ends where any form of misbehaviour is dealt with in isolation, there needs to be systems that return it back to the top to find out why it occurred and fix it, not just get rid of the bad apple, fix the problem otherwise it's back on the magic roundabout for another spin. Police need to be trained so they know exactly where their loyalties lie, carrying out their duties to the best of their abilities and to the public. Police have to understand that if they see or know of misbehaviour in their own ranks that they have a duty to report it or be part of an investigation when it happens and they should be protected and maybe even rewarded for doing so.

In implementing the recommendations it will and should result in a better force where the majority, the good ones are rewarded with better job satisfaction and better relations with all the public and are respected for it. Police cannot be expected to do their job properly if they subject to bullying, misogyny and a whole raft of other problems.

I hope you read the whole of the link and the recommendations and understand why they are necessary, then go and read the other report and you should understand a lot more than you appear to.