James Coppinger

[Reg of the Rovers]

Sorry Sam the players aren't good enough and haven't been all season. We wouldn't be where we are now if they had been good enough no matter who the manager was

They certainly haven't been good enough. But I agree with Sammy - on paper this team - even without Fej, Tom and Jon - should be well out of this mess. Rowe, Bostock, Clayton, Knoyle, Willams, Hiwula, Dodoo, Agard, Gardner are all experienced plays who've had an impact elsewhere. Martin, Galbraith, Olowu, Younger, Smith all bags of potential and quality. If someone could get the best of all of those players we'd be knocking at the other end of the table instead of languishing at the bottom.

[Campsall rover]

Sorry Sam the players aren't good enough and haven't been all season. We wouldn't be where we are now if they had been good enough no matter who the manager was

Some are not good enough. Not all imo.
They have underperformed massively. That is down to poor management.
The injuries to 6 key players is also a huge factor.

Dahlberg/Mitchell, Knoyle, Olowu, Rowe, Smith, Galbraith & Martin who we have had fit 90% of the time are all good enough.
Anderson, John, Bostock & Close who have played in possibly around 15 to 30% of matches between them are good enough.
A 100% match fit Clayton and Griffiths are good enough but both haven’t been 100% fit as yet.

Jones, Williams, Horton, Seaman, Jackson, Ravenhill, Greaves, Gardener, Barlow, Hiwula, Dodoo, Curkur, Mipo are all not good enough imo.
Bogle we will never know although suspect league 2 is his level. And ED Williams not good enough from what i have seen in his brief cameos. Agard who knows.

A fit Taylor & Fej are good enough but not played due to injury.
( well Taylor about 60 mins )

So based on the 7 listed at the top we have been probably 4 players short most matches of having a team that would hold their own in this league.

4 players is very significant especially as we have not had one reliable front man/goal scorer all season.

[ravenrover]

Isn't underperformed used just as an excuse for not being good enough? We can't talk about "ifs", we can only talk about the performances of those available to play not those lost through injury. Week on week we see the same 10 or 15 players in various levels of fitness put out to represent our team. Yes players will have good games maybe not all at the same time but in the main the performances have been dire which looking at our position in thr league table, of points gained, goals scored, goals conceded can only scream one thing the team ie the players as a whole are not good enough

[Reg of the Rovers]

Isn't underperformed used just as an excuse for not being good enough? We can't talk about "ifs", we can only talk about the performances of those available to play not those lost through injury. Week on week we see the same 10 or 15 players in various levels of fitness put out to represent our team. Yes players will have good games maybe not all at the same time but in the main the performances have been dire which looking at our position in thr league table, of points gained, goals scored, goals conceded can only scream one thing the team ie the players as a whole are not good enough

You're absolutely right, they haven't been good enough - they've been consistently bad with occasional glimpses. I just can't explain why this group of players, who have had decent careers elsewhere at decent clubs / levels are so bad here. On that basis I'm hoping that the right person and the right methods could get them to click, could find the magic formula. Linking back to the OP I don't think that could/should be Copps, but I do think there's an experienced manager out there who could find the spark. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking!! 

[grayx]

Whilst i dont think Copps is the ideal long term solution, i’d be amazed if he couldn’t step in until the end of the season & do a better job.
I reckon Copps will be hurting seeing us in such a mess & may be tempted

[Silkscarf]

It's worth a pop in my view. Like when Shearer took over Newcastle. It wouldn't be Copps's fault if we went down as we've been a shambles for a long long time. But he could just do enough to keep us up. It might just work, or at least restore a bit of belief in everyone as we regroup for next season.

I feel sorry for Gary McSheff. He's a nice bloke, a fine player in his day, a good player for us, said all the right things, I really wanted him to do well. But it's been a total car crash. Maybe he should be put out of his misery. I'm usually one of the last people to say sack the manager.

We must have one player who can play as striker and score a goal or two? Surely? How can we have been so bad for so long? Even now we can still stay up. Just give them a kick up the arse someone!

[belton rover]

I like to think that Copps is waiting for the right time to take over.

[TheFunk]

Surely he can't take over as he doesn't have the relevant coaching badges to manage in the football league.

[belton rover]

I think it will happen.


Eventually.

[Campsall rover]

1) No leader on the field.
2) Lack of experienced Centre back ( since Anderson injured )
3) No proper Left Back in the team.
4) Bostock and Close missing for most of the season.
5) Not one decent striker at the club. ( Can’t count Fej as he has not played for 13 months )  Will he play again?
6) No Decent wide attacking player ( Taylor Injured all season )
7) Very poor man management from Wellens which imo resulted in a fear culture and then resulted in total lack self belief & confidence.
8) GM not having the experience and tactical nous to lift the players.

They are the reasons why we are where we are imo.
Not good is it.

[Draytonian III]

Number 7 on that list is a key issue because the players used to look frightened to try anything or even receive the ball. No doubt the Leyton Orient players will have witnessed this last night, and I bet the four hour drive back from Oldham was fun, unless he went home to his Lancashire roots

[Campsall rover]

Number 7 on that list is a key issue because the players used to look frightened to try anything or even receive the ball. No doubt the Leyton Orient players will have witnessed this last night, and I bet the four hour drive back from Oldham was fun, unless he went home to his Lancashire roots

Correct imo. The players were scared to make mistakes. Hence they did make a lot of them.
By the time GM got hold of them their confidence was shattered. GM unfortunately is caught like a rabbit in the headlights. He has no previous experience of dealing with the situation he was given.

In hindsight we needed a League 1 Sam Allardyce to sort the team out.  Who that is not sure but it certainly was not Gary Mac.
I do feel sorry for him because I think he comes across as a very decent honest bloke. He should not have been persuaded to take the job. Hope he gets his old one back.
Do the board see what around 85% of the fans see. Will they do the right thing. Will they learn from mistakes they have now made 3 times. Butler, Wellens and GM.
We can’t afford a 4th one.

[i_ateallthepies]

1) No leader on the field.
2) Lack of experienced Centre back ( since Anderson injured )
3) No proper Left Back in the team.
4) Bostock and Close missing for most of the season.
5) Not one decent striker at the club. ( Can’t count Fej as he has not played for 13 months )  Will he play again?
6) No Decent wide attacking player ( Taylor Injured all season )
7) Very poor man management from Wellens which imo resulted in a fear culture and then resulted in total lack self belief & confidence.
8) GM not having the experience and tactical nous to lift the players.

They are the reasons why we are where we are imo.
Not good is it.

Campsall, all of your points are absolutely correct... but, those are the immediate causes.  Immediate causes always result from underlying causes which almost invariably result from management failings.

I know you aren't hiding away from the management failures by the way but without identifying and correcting those the immediate causes will remain.