DUP

[SydneyRover]

Free to join Ireland

[BillyStubbsTears]

Then how do do deal with the massive  unrest on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide?

Come on folks. Address this SERIOUSLY.

You who wanted Brexit have caused this problem that you were warned about and ignored. Now sort it out with some serious proposals, not this pie in the sky waffle.

Would be their problem as an independent nation.

That's a cracker. Now I know you're dicking about.

[tyke1962]

Then how do do deal with the massive  unrest on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide?

Come on folks. Address this SERIOUSLY.

You who wanted Brexit have caused this problem that you were warned about and ignored. Now sort it out with some serious proposals, not this pie in the sky waffle.

It isn't pie in the sky waffle though is it .

It's inevitable at some stage there will be a United Ireland , the current make up of NI is 48% Protestant or brought up Protestant and 45% Catholic or brought up Catholic .

The highest birth rate is amongst the Catholic community so by definition they will at some point become by population figures becone the dominant community .

Sinn Fein are getting stronger in the NI political scene .

There has to be a democratic process attached to a United Ireland becoming real .

If that vote passes and the Protestant community rise up then they have to be put down by a combination of British and Irish armed forces .

The same as anyone should be who deny democracy .

I haven't the simple solution you are looking for Billy and whilst I take your Brexit induced problem point don't think for one minute this wasn't going to happen one day Brexit or no Brexit .

The GFA whilst welcome was never going to stand the test of time .

[Glyn_Wigley]

Then how do do deal with the massive  unrest on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide?

Come on folks. Address this SERIOUSLY.

You who wanted Brexit have caused this problem that you were warned about and ignored. Now sort it out with some serious proposals, not this pie in the sky waffle.

If the majority vote for it, then they get what they want.

[redwine]

Quite ironic that a little englander such as Johnson may inadvertently preside over a united Ireland

[Bristol Red Rover]

Then how do do deal with the massive  unrest on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide?

Come on folks. Address this SERIOUSLY.

You who wanted Brexit have caused this problem that you were warned about and ignored. Now sort it out with some serious proposals, not this pie in the sky waffle.

It isn't pie in the sky waffle though is it .

It's inevitable at some stage there will be a United Ireland , the current make up of NI is 48% Protestant or brought up Protestant and 45% Catholic or brought up Catholic .

The highest birth rate is amongst the Catholic community so by definition they will at some point become by population figures becone the dominant community .

Sinn Fein are getting stronger in the NI political scene .

There has to be a democratic process attached to a United Ireland becoming real .

If that vote passes and the Protestant community rise up then they have to be put down by a combination of British and Irish armed forces .

The same as anyone should be who deny democracy .

I haven't the simple solution you are looking for Billy and whilst I take your Brexit induced problem point don't think for one minute this wasn't going to happen one day Brexit or no Brexit .

The GFA whilst welcome was never going to stand the test of time .

That population change is the future. The big pile of poo that Brexit created is now.

[tyke1962]

Then how do do deal with the massive  unrest on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide?

Come on folks. Address this SERIOUSLY.

You who wanted Brexit have caused this problem that you were warned about and ignored. Now sort it out with some serious proposals, not this pie in the sky waffle.

It isn't pie in the sky waffle though is it .

It's inevitable at some stage there will be a United Ireland , the current make up of NI is 48% Protestant or brought up Protestant and 45% Catholic or brought up Catholic .

The highest birth rate is amongst the Catholic community so by definition they will at some point become by population figures becone the dominant community .

Sinn Fein are getting stronger in the NI political scene .

There has to be a democratic process attached to a United Ireland becoming real .

If that vote passes and the Protestant community rise up then they have to be put down by a combination of British and Irish armed forces .

The same as anyone should be who deny democracy .

I haven't the simple solution you are looking for Billy and whilst I take your Brexit induced problem point don't think for one minute this wasn't going to happen one day Brexit or no Brexit .

The GFA whilst welcome was never going to stand the test of time .

That population change is the future. The big pile of poo that Brexit created is now.

So your proposing we go down the same route as climate change ?

Let future generations sort it .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course future generations will have to deal with this. It is an ongoing process. At some point, you'd hope that we get past the concept of national identity Uber Alles and realise that what unites humans is bigger than borders that separate them. But that is for future generations to sort out.

For now, we have a situation where one half of the population passionately identify as British and the other half passionately identifies as Irish.

Tyke. Your "solution" is abhorrent. It us the most disgusting concept of democracy. The one that says "If 50.1% of the population wants one thing, then the other 49.1% has to suck it up. At the barrel of a gun if necessary." That is how the Unionists treated the Nationalist minority in NI for half a century. I cannot believe anyone seriously proposes that as a "solution" to where we are now.

The GFA was a work of genius. It built on the blurring of boundaries that the EU had produced. And it let Nationalists have free dealing with Ireland while not in any way making the Unionists feel less British.

You lot who voted for Brexit have destroyed that. You were told that would be the result. You don't have the excuse of not realising at the time. You chose not to listen.

Own the mess that NI is now in.

[tyke1962]

Of course future generations will have to deal with this. It is an ongoing process. At some point, you'd hope that we get past the concept of national identity Uber Alles and realise that what unites humans is bigger than borders that separate them. But that is for future generations to sort out.

For now, we have a situation where one half of the population passionately identify as British and the other half passionately identifies as Irish.

Tyke. Your "solution" is abhorrent. It us the most disgusting concept of democracy. The one that says "If 50.1% of the population wants one thing, then the other 49.1% has to suck it up. At the barrel of a gun if necessary." That is how the Unionists treated the Nationalist minority in NI for half a century. I cannot believe anyone seriously proposes that as a "solution" to where we are now.

The GFA was a work of genius. It built on the blurring of boundaries that the EU had produced. And it let Nationalists have free dealing with Ireland while not in any way making the Unionists feel less British.

You lot who voted for Brexit have destroyed that. You were told that would be the result. You don't have the excuse of not realising at the time. You chose not to listen.

Own the mess that NI is now in.

So going on your logic regarding democracy if Remain had won the referendum by 51% to 49% you'd have been happy for us given the closeness of the vote to leave the SM as compensation for the losing 49% ?

Or does this only work one way when you lose Billy ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

We didn't vote to leave the SM.  The decision to leave the SM was taken by a few people in the Tory party, after you had left them to make that decision on behalf of the entire country.

And if you don't see the difference between the consequences of remaining in or leaving the SM for people in GB, and the consequences of telling a future minority Unionist population in NI that they are joining Ireland whether they like it or not, then I suggest you aren't really taking this seriously.

[albie]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

[Draytonian III]

I take it all the people posting on this topic have spent a lot of time in Northern Ireland ?

[danumdon]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

This is a good point, i would say the public of Northern Ireland will make this meaningless in time as more none aligned parties come to the fore in the future.

The tribal sectarian politics will become something that the public will learn to leave aside when it comes to electing who they consider will be best placed to provide them with government that will enrich their lives not cast dark clouds and misery.

The future is there's to decide, let the old dogs lie.

[wilts rover]

I saw a clip of someone in NI being interviewed this week on the situation there and his opinion of it - the answer was along the lines of:

'we are stuck between a country that doesn want us (UK) and a country that can't afford us (RoI)'

[BillyStubbsTears]

I take it all the people posting on this topic have spent a lot of time in Northern Ireland ?

Does that matter?

I haven't spent a lot of time in 1930s Berlin but I think I have a decent understanding of who the bad guys were.

[BillyStubbsTears]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

This is a good point, i would say the public of Northern Ireland will make this meaningless in time as more none aligned parties come to the fore in the future.

The tribal sectarian politics will become something that the public will learn to leave aside when it comes to electing who they consider will be best placed to provide them with government that will enrich their lives not cast dark clouds and misery.

The future is there's to decide, let the old dogs lie.

The old dogs WERE lying. The GFA WAS doing the job of letting scars heal.

Now that's all back up in the air because of Brexit. Just like some of us predicted 6 years back.

[Branton Red]

We didn't vote to leave the SM.  The decision to leave the SM was taken by a few people in the Tory party, after you had left them to make that decision on behalf of the entire country.

And if you don't see the difference between the consequences of remaining in or leaving the SM for people in GB, and the consequences of telling a future minority Unionist population in NI that they are joining Ireland whether they like it or not, then I suggest you aren't really taking this seriously.

And on another thread same author "it's simply a fact that the biggest anti-truth peddlars are on the Right".

The irony.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Branton

You going to substantiate that slur?

[danumdon]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

This is a good point, i would say the public of Northern Ireland will make this meaningless in time as more none aligned parties come to the fore in the future.

The tribal sectarian politics will become something that the public will learn to leave aside when it comes to electing who they consider will be best placed to provide them with government that will enrich their lives not cast dark clouds and misery.

The future is there's to decide, let the old dogs lie.

The old dogs WERE lying. The GFA WAS doing the job of letting scars heal.

Now that's all back up in the air because of Brexit. Just like some of us predicted 6 years back.

No i don't agree with that, The EU weaponised the NI situation to cause the British the maximum disruption when attempting the exit from the EU, in effect the EU were prepared to throw the Irish and the GFA to the wall to attempt to get their preferred outcome.

Did not Barnier and his cronies also get caught on camera basically saying the same thing?

[albie]

The change in voting patterns may mean that the Alliance Party displace the DUP in the pecking order;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61363246

So how does the GFA address the balance of power under this scenario?
It was set out at a time when the vote was a binary choice between Unionism and Nationalism, but the trend is to a more diverse distribution of support.

[BillyStubbsTears]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

This is a good point, i would say the public of Northern Ireland will make this meaningless in time as more none aligned parties come to the fore in the future.

The tribal sectarian politics will become something that the public will learn to leave aside when it comes to electing who they consider will be best placed to provide them with government that will enrich their lives not cast dark clouds and misery.

The future is there's to decide, let the old dogs lie.

The old dogs WERE lying. The GFA WAS doing the job of letting scars heal.

Now that's all back up in the air because of Brexit. Just like some of us predicted 6 years back.

No i don't agree with that, The EU weaponised the NI situation to cause the British the maximum disruption when attempting the exit from the EU, in effect the EU were prepared to throw the Irish and the GFA to the wall to attempt to get their preferred outcome.

Did not Barnier and his cronies also get caught on camera basically saying the same thing?

Christ where to start with this. It's truly scary.

I assume you mean this video?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1508742/michel-barnier-news-unearthed-clip-plans-isolate-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-spt

[drfchound]

I don’t recall anyone talking about that in the last two or three years.
Hindsight ?

[SydneyRover]

Quite ironic that a little englander such as Johnson may inadvertently preside over a united Ireland

wouldn't united Ireland preside over itself?

[SydneyRover]

Anyone thinking johnson will do a street walk in Belfast as he did in the Ukraine?

[BobG]

I hope so.....

BobG

[Bristol Red Rover]

That population change is the future. The big pile of poo that Brexit created is now.

So your proposing we go down the same route as climate change ?

Let future generations sort it .

That analogy doesn't work at all.

What we do now effects climate change now and in the future, it's very simple. What we do in NI was already screwed up by the vote which was as immature as you can get. If this current debacle wasn't happening there would be more wiggle room, and somewhat less sectarian posturing when it comes to a vote on Irish unification in the coming decades.

The current situation is what it is. What you are suggesting is working against democracy iin NI, and creating inevitable conflict and deaths. There is no solution to what Johnson's interpretation of Brexit is. The whole Brexit vote should not have been set up without there being an NI solution in place for whichever way it went. This is not against Brexit per se, I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem with politicians being clowns as is clearly the case in the set up of the Brexit vote, all the way to the likely bloody mess Johnson created in his bid for ego fame. Although to be fair to him, along with the rest of the Brexit carnival, he ain't that bright is he.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

On the point of the Brexit vote, should the rest of the UK voted one way purely because of Northern Ireland?  Its the very part of being in a union that unionists should accept isn't it? If they want to align with England, Wales, Scotland they will be a minority partner and should accept that. But it is much more complicated.  I'm not sure John in Darlington should vote one way because of someone's thoughts in Derry.....

The supposed Irish see border is a workable solution with some issues but it can be resolved.  I doubt the dup will accept any checks at all between UK and Northern Ireland and that is a problem but they can't be ignored.

[BillyStubbsTears]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

This is a good point, i would say the public of Northern Ireland will make this meaningless in time as more none aligned parties come to the fore in the future.

The tribal sectarian politics will become something that the public will learn to leave aside when it comes to electing who they consider will be best placed to provide them with government that will enrich their lives not cast dark clouds and misery.

The future is there's to decide, let the old dogs lie.

The old dogs WERE lying. The GFA WAS doing the job of letting scars heal.

Now that's all back up in the air because of Brexit. Just like some of us predicted 6 years back.

No i don't agree with that, The EU weaponised the NI situation to cause the British the maximum disruption when attempting the exit from the EU, in effect the EU were prepared to throw the Irish and the GFA to the wall to attempt to get their preferred outcome.

Did not Barnier and his cronies also get caught on camera basically saying the same thing?

Christ where to start with this. It's truly scary.

I assume you mean this video?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1508742/michel-barnier-news-unearthed-clip-plans-isolate-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-spt

DD
I assume that WAS the video you were talking about. Many Brexit supporters have commented on it showing what t**ts the EU negotiators were.

Except. It was a con. It was an editted version if an original, where Barnier was calling out how he expected the UK negotiators to use the NI issue in bad faith.

The edit deliberately made it sound as though Barnier was talking about EU negotiating policy. It seems to have done the job with you.

Do you know who edited and published that deliberate deception? Farage's Leave.EU.

They deliberately chose to lie to you. Confirming what you wanted to believe about the EU.

I get that this will hurt. It's never enjoyable to find out that you've been the mark in a sting. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

On the point of the Brexit vote, should the rest of the UK voted one way purely because of Northern Ireland?  Its the very part of being in a union that unionists should accept isn't it? If they want to align with England, Wales, Scotland they will be a minority partner and should accept that. But it is much more complicated.  I'm not sure John in Darlington should vote one way because of someone's thoughts in Derry.....

The supposed Irish see border is a workable solution with some issues but it can be resolved.  I doubt the dup will accept any checks at all between UK and Northern Ireland and that is a problem but they can't be ignored.

The point is that responsible politicians had a duty to inform voters about the consequences of Brexit on NI. If voters then chose to play with fire on that issue, that's between them and their conscience.

What actually happened was that politicians on one side raised this. While politicians on the other side insisted it was Project Fear.

It's now clear that one side was telling the truth and the other side was lying. The absolute minimum that a functioning democracy requires is for John in Darlington to be aware that he's been lied to, and to factor that into his future decisions.

[danumdon]

When people talk about demographic change, it occurs alongside different aspirations and social priorities.

The 2 tribes history will break down over time, and voters will become more concerned with the policy proposals that offer prospects for development.

Those who lived through the troubles are now elderly, and the old divisions will weaken with their passing.

The GFA hard wires the partition of powers between the 2 communities. As it becomes less relevant to the developing political landscape it will need to be revisited. How do you accommodate the Alliance Party into this format?

This is a good point, i would say the public of Northern Ireland will make this meaningless in time as more none aligned parties come to the fore in the future.

The tribal sectarian politics will become something that the public will learn to leave aside when it comes to electing who they consider will be best placed to provide them with government that will enrich their lives not cast dark clouds and misery.

The future is there's to decide, let the old dogs lie.

The old dogs WERE lying. The GFA WAS doing the job of letting scars heal.

Now that's all back up in the air because of Brexit. Just like some of us predicted 6 years back.

No i don't agree with that, The EU weaponised the NI situation to cause the British the maximum disruption when attempting the exit from the EU, in effect the EU were prepared to throw the Irish and the GFA to the wall to attempt to get their preferred outcome.

Did not Barnier and his cronies also get caught on camera basically saying the same thing?

Christ where to start with this. It's truly scary.

I assume you mean this video?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1508742/michel-barnier-news-unearthed-clip-plans-isolate-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-spt

DD
I assume that WAS the video you were talking about. Many Brexit supporters have commented on it showing what t**ts the EU negotiators were.

Except. It was a con. It was an editted version if an original, where Barnier was calling out how he expected the UK negotiators to use the NI issue in bad faith.

The edit deliberately made it sound as though Barnier was talking about EU negotiating policy. It seems to have done the job with you.

Do you know who edited and published that deliberate deception? Farage's Leave.EU.

They deliberately chose to lie to you. Confirming what you wanted to believe about the EU.

I get that this will hurt. It's never enjoyable to find out that you've been the mark in a sting. 

No not at all, i don't stake my life on the words and deeds of politicians, regardless of the video being doctored that was never going to be the defining information that would lead me to believe that Barnier was never going to approach the negotiations in good faith, the guy was hand picked to ensure the EU tried to screw the UK to the wall, the fact that May and the remainer cabal in the commons tied our hands behind our back to enable us to get any sort of deal was the icing on the cake for this grey and morose individual.