JR stirring it

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Worth adding that giving shares to employees is massively common throughout all industries so it's no shock to see one of the top man given shares for their work, usually a good incentive.

[drfchound]

Think the question is Tommy what are the shares actually worth

If they are worthless, I'd happily take them off their hands. I'd quite like play at owning a football club without putting any actual money of my own in.....

I don't think you know how football clubs are run if you just think its about owning shares.

We own over 100,000 shares in DRFC, they're worth pennies.

Martin,I think there is a fair chance that TommyC was speaking with tongue in cheek.

Can’t you get someone to add a TIC emoji to the options available please.

[ravenrover]

Let me also correct a few people on here, there was no Sequentia takeover bid followed by the Tomlinson Ryan takeover, there was only one. This document proves that.

Sm what about the Crowdfunding episode, was that linked to this?

[TommyC]

I was being facetious yes.

Having said that, I would nevertheless still ask why you would give someone shares that are worthless?

When given to an employee as one poster has suggested they do still tend to have value as a reward or bonus or in some form of salary sacrifice arrangement. It could be in return for a job well done for example. Hopefully that isn't the case here. Either way though, they tend to have value either through being able to be sold on or through conveying some form of dividend or a right to payment on a sale of the Company.

I agree the VSCs shares in the subsidiary DRFC will be worth nothing. They probably will have little to no voting rights and most definitely won't have a right to a dividend.  They're a token gesture. They represent 100k shares out of a total share capital of in excess of 33 million shares....in the subsidiary company. As you say, utterly worthless.

However I'm talking about the 96 million shares that GB and DB EACH hold in the topco (Club Doncaster) that actually owns and controls DRFC. Their respective 96 million shares each is the exact same amount of shares as held by TB.

Please could you explain to me how a football club works Silent Majority?

[since-1969]

Think the question is Tommy what are the shares actually worth

£35m in loans ??

[since-1969]

Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have!

So, spending money you don't have doesn't get you any higher than where Scunthorpe are now. Hmm.

What?

You just said that Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have.

So spending money they don't have has put them where they are. This is not a convincing argument for Rovers to spend money they don't have too.

I said Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have and are back where they are now because they've stopped spending money they don't have!

So Scunthorpe should have carried on spending money they don't have to avoid being where they are now! Instead of the debt they currently have dragging them down, a bigger debt would have saved them!


If only they'd have had you as their financial adviser.

Huddersfield are in Championship playoffs with an entire team that cost NOTHING to put together . Just good management and desire to succeed!  So where does our approach better theirs . Scunthorpe are just typical shoes string club JUST like DRFC .

[CoppsChop]

Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have!

So, spending money you don't have doesn't get you any higher than where Scunthorpe are now. Hmm.

What?

You just said that Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have.

So spending money they don't have has put them where they are. This is not a convincing argument for Rovers to spend money they don't have too.

I said Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have and are back where they are now because they've stopped spending money they don't have!

So Scunthorpe should have carried on spending money they don't have to avoid being where they are now! Instead of the debt they currently have dragging them down, a bigger debt would have saved them!


If only they'd have had you as their financial adviser.

Huddersfield are in Championship playoffs with an entire team that cost NOTHING to put together . Just good management and desire to succeed!  So where does our approach better theirs . Scunthorpe are just typical shoes string club JUST like DRFC .

Eh?

Do Huddersfield not pay their wages or staff?

Unless you are claiming they didn’t pay any transfer fees which sounds unlikely not least because their in-form left-back whose goals got them over the line into the playoffs (and who used to play for us, Harry Toffolo) definitely cost them a fee.

[roversdude]

I’m sure they’ll appreciate your support next season 1969

[Chris Black come back]

Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have!

So, spending money you don't have doesn't get you any higher than where Scunthorpe are now. Hmm.

What?

You just said that Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have.

So spending money they don't have has put them where they are. This is not a convincing argument for Rovers to spend money they don't have too.

I said Scunthorpe would never have been any higher than they are now without spending money they don't have and are back where they are now because they've stopped spending money they don't have!

So Scunthorpe should have carried on spending money they don't have to avoid being where they are now! Instead of the debt they currently have dragging them down, a bigger debt would have saved them!


If only they'd have had you as their financial adviser.

Huddersfield are in Championship playoffs with an entire team that cost NOTHING to put together . Just good management and desire to succeed!  So where does our approach better theirs . Scunthorpe are just typical shoes string club JUST like DRFC .

Eh?

Do Huddersfield not pay their wages or staff?

Unless you are claiming they didn’t pay any transfer fees which sounds unlikely not least because their in-form left-back whose goals got them over the line into the playoffs (and who used to play for us, Harry Toffolo) definitely cost them a fee.

Their wage bill last season was £24.6m which while reasonably modest for the Championship, is around 10x our wage bill.

[ForsolongaRover]

One might guess that the most likely answer to the question about the shares of Messrs Blunt and Baldwin is that they were pure gifts. They would then be in consideration of the value that TB places upon the two individuals in their company roles.

The value of the shares themselves is surely related to the worth of the businesses owned. I assume that it is unlikely the VSC would be informed if there are conditions attaching to the ownership - for example restrictions on their sale.

[GazLaz]

Could JR have run the club sustainably and successfully in a football capacity? That’s the holy grail. I think not.

Can the current owners? I don’t think so.

Is it possible? Very much so.

For the record, I deem success as constant over performing compared to the budget available.

[Chris Black come back]

Terry is not going to be involved for that much longer. The guy is 80 this year. He won’t need this hassle at his age. We’ve got to get soon to a stage where we are relatively sustainable. This gives us some stability for when he is not involved, and potentially then make us a more attractive option for external investment that might come. To get there we either have to cut outgoings or increase incomings. We have to choose one of them.

[pib]

I wonder what level sustainability puts us at? I'm not 100% clear on the extent to which owners are overspending and ploughing money in at other lower-league clubs, but given our gates and all the revenue that we supposedly generate from commercial/stadium related activities, I would hazard a guess our revenue puts our "level" at somewhere in L1 rather than L2.

[steve@dcfd]

How much is TB putting into the club via club Doncaster now. The interview that GB gave I believe last September he said that the money was coming from Club Doncaster and we are not relying on money from the owner. He believed the Budget (playing ) for this season would be bigger than last season but we have been relegated so it should affect that but we have been told it will be the same.

[silent majority]

I was being facetious yes.

Having said that, I would nevertheless still ask why you would give someone shares that are worthless?

When given to an employee as one poster has suggested they do still tend to have value as a reward or bonus or in some form of salary sacrifice arrangement. It could be in return for a job well done for example. Hopefully that isn't the case here. Either way though, they tend to have value either through being able to be sold on or through conveying some form of dividend or a right to payment on a sale of the Company.

I agree the VSCs shares in the subsidiary DRFC will be worth nothing. They probably will have little to no voting rights and most definitely won't have a right to a dividend.  They're a token gesture. They represent 100k shares out of a total share capital of in excess of 33 million shares....in the subsidiary company. As you say, utterly worthless.

However I'm talking about the 96 million shares that GB and DB EACH hold in the topco (Club Doncaster) that actually owns and controls DRFC. Their respective 96 million shares each is the exact same amount of shares as held by TB.

Please could you explain to me how a football club works Silent Majority?

Our shares are not in a subsidiary company, and that token gesture cost the VSC in excess of £100,000.

[silent majority]

One might guess that the most likely answer to the question about the shares of Messrs Blunt and Baldwin is that they were pure gifts. They would then be in consideration of the value that TB places upon the two individuals in their company roles.

The value of the shares themselves is surely related to the worth of the businesses owned. I assume that it is unlikely the VSC would be informed if there are conditions attaching to the ownership - for example restrictions on their sale.

Why would you assume that the VSC would not be given this information? We have an agreed MOU between both parties which essentially means the club will answer any questions that the VSC ask and we are always kept informed of what's happening behind the scenes.

FYI, DB bought into the club just like Terry and Dick did. The shuffling of the share issue in recent times was due to the Watson family moving away but gifting their shareholding and writing off any debts they were owed.

[silent majority]

Terry is not going to be involved for that much longer. The guy is 80 this year. He won’t need this hassle at his age. We’ve got to get soon to a stage where we are relatively sustainable. This gives us some stability for when he is not involved, and potentially then make us a more attractive option for external investment that might come. To get there we either have to cut outgoings or increase incomings. We have to choose one of them.

We're already at that point.

[silent majority]

Let me also correct a few people on here, there was no Sequentia takeover bid followed by the Tomlinson Ryan takeover, there was only one. This document proves that.

Sm what about the Crowdfunding episode, was that linked to this?

Yes it most certainly was.

I did say at the time that anybody who was relying on a crowdfunder to buy a football club wasn't going to get very far, despite protestations claiming that was not the case. I was proven right pretty quickly.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Let me also correct a few people on here, there was no Sequentia takeover bid followed by the Tomlinson Ryan takeover, there was only one. This document proves that.

Sm what about the Crowdfunding episode, was that linked to this?

Yes it most certainly was.

I did say at the time that anybody who was relying on a crowdfunder to buy a football club wasn't going to get very far, despite protestations claiming that was not the case. I was proven right pretty quickly.

And that was an example of a certain person lying directly to the fans of this club.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm getting the feeling that some people think that when an investor buys shares in Rovers that somehow the money goes to Rovers and not to the previous owner of the shares.

[steve@dcfd]

Terry is not going to be involved for that much longer. The guy is 80 this year. He won’t need this hassle at his age. We’ve got to get soon to a stage where we are relatively sustainable. This gives us some stability for when he is not involved, and potentially then make us a more attractive option for external investment that might come. To get there we either have to cut outgoings or increase incomings. We have to choose one of them.

We're already at that point.

So TB is no longer putting funds into the club and the funds for the club are coming from Club Doncaster ???

[steve@dcfd]

I'm getting the feeling that some people think that when an investor buys shares in Rovers that somehow the money goes to Rovers and not to the previous owner of the shares.

That’s when an investor buys shares. But an investor could buy the shares and also invest in the club. But at this moment neither is happening and it appears TB doesn’t want it to happen.

[Chris Black come back]

Or more shares are issued which would result in the holding of the existing shareholders is diluted (a notional loss to them) and the proceeds of the new share disbursal are returned to the club.

[EasyforDennis]

What is it with certain posters on here that feel that nothing negative should ever be posted about the current directors and other members of DRFC?
It seems they feel it is perfectly ok for them to be negative about a previous director and if anyone disagrees with them their reaction is always one of "Well go and support another club"
We all support our club and whilst some think they are superior to the rest of us they are most definitely NOT.
 

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm getting the feeling that some people think that when an investor buys shares in Rovers that somehow the money goes to Rovers and not to the previous owner of the shares.

That’s when an investor buys shares. But an investor could buy the shares and also invest in the club. But at this moment neither is happening and it appears TB doesn’t want it to happen.

TB has always said he'd sell to someone with Rovers best interests at heart and will take the club forward. I've reason to believe that he wouldn't also welcome partnership ownership..

[sedwardsdrfc]

What is it with certain posters on here that feel that nothing negative should ever be posted about the current directors and other members of DRFC?
It seems they feel it is perfectly ok for them to be negative about a previous director and if anyone disagrees with them their reaction is always one of "Well go and support another club"
We all support our club and whilst some think they are superior to the rest of us they are most definitely NOT.
 

It's true all should be open to criticism. But the thing with the existing owners is that the negative comments on the whole are pretty harsh or unreasonable and essentially boil down to

- Why don't you invest (speculate/throw away) all your fortune in DRFC
- You should have accepted the offers (if there every were any) that promised a lot (clearly didn't pass any kind of scrutiny)

I don't feel comfortable criticising or demanding anyone spend their own money like this. I also think that a lot of people who do have a problem with them just see the kind of protests happening at other clubs and see that it's the job of the fan base to hate the owners unless they are Man City or Chelsea (under Roman) with a bottomless pit to spend.

It's become fashionable to be sack the board. We aren't winning so the owners have to go and get someone in who will spend whatever it takes until we win. If that's football your better getting a Sky and BT package and enjoying it there.

It's ok to be negative about them in a constructive way imo. So for instance i think this season has been coming and that the people employed by the owners haven't done a very good job. I also think the club made poor decisions in management for the last couple of years. They've been criticised plenty for this and not just by the people who will be negative no matter what. Pretty much everyone agrees with this. And in fairness they've tried to correct this with Copps appointment in a role that should fill the void in the clubs football management that's let the last few years kind of stagnate.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hypothetical question, of course, but if a statue of John Ryan had been erected at the Keepmoat around the time of its opening, who would want it pulled down now?

[drfc1951]

Hypothetical question, of course, but if a statue of John Ryan had been erected at the Keepmoat around the time of its opening, who would want it pulled down now?

Nobody.

[Jonathan]

Hypothetical question, of course, but if a statue of John Ryan had been erected at the Keepmoat around the time of its opening, who would want it pulled down now?

Absolutely nobody. But you could say you heard someone say it if you wanted.

[silent majority]

Hypothetical question, of course, but if a statue of John Ryan had been erected at the Keepmoat around the time of its opening, who would want it pulled down now?

In terms of the rescue of the club the quite rightly John should get the plaudits for that, but the Keepmoat as a project was run by Andy Liney, he was the real reason it was delivered.