JR stirring it

[wilts rover]

I would have thought it was fairly clear 'he was never keen on people outside the club telling him how to run it' were err, the people outsside the club who were criticising him and his appointments/actions during his running the club.

[steve@dcfd]

Can all of the ones who have a bee in their bonnet for years just let it drop now. Every time his names mentioned the digs from the past start. Move on boys have a good summer ride you bikes, read book and let see what happens in July.

[drfchound]

Remind me again how much Brentford will be getting next season, bfyp?

Lots indeed.  But if you want to be Brentford how many clubs can risk a £41.5m wage budget. Is that seriously what you'd want us to do?

To add to that Bournemouth had a wage bill of £58m that year and didn't get promoted. In the premier League their wage bill was over £100m. They probably spent not far off on wages in a week what we spend in a year. Staggering figures.

I’ve lost track of how much money that PL clubs get from sky these days, is it around £160m.
If it is then I think a wage bill of £41.5m isn’t too extreme.
I wouldn’t be too concerned if Rovers were in their position.

Would you be worried in Derby's position to name but one?:

Yes of course, but I was talking about being in Brentford’s position in the PL.
Anything beyond that wasn’t mentioned.
Obviously Derby have gone way beyond where Brentford are with their wage bill.

[Bentley Bullet]

I would have thought it was fairly clear 'he was never keen on people outside the club telling him how to run it' were err, the people outsside the club who were criticising him and his appointments/actions during his running the club.

But what's that got to do with this interview?

[drfchound]

Remind me again how much Brentford will be getting next season, bfyp?

Lots indeed.  But if you want to be Brentford how many clubs can risk a £41.5m wage budget. Is that seriously what you'd want us to do?

To add to that Bournemouth had a wage bill of £58m that year and didn't get promoted. In the premier League their wage bill was over £100m. They probably spent not far off on wages in a week what we spend in a year. Staggering figures.

I’ve lost track of how much money that PL clubs get from sky these days, is it around £160m.
If it is then I think a wage bill of £41.5m isn’t too extreme.
I wouldn’t be too concerned if Rovers were in their position.

All well and good but say that takes 3 years to gain promotion. You've a £25-30m a year cash gap to bridge.  Assume 4-5% interest on that debt adds another £1.5m ish.  Over 3 seasons that's £100m in cash and that's assuming break even on transfer fees.  Even then you may not make it (these numbers not far off what Sheffield Wednesday were relegated with).

So to have a go, do you know anyone with a spare £100m+ to gamble?

You're also not getting that money back ever, promotion is fine but as In Bournemouth's place that £100m needs to be spent to even have a sniff.

Pud, you are talking about trying to get into the PL.
I was commenting on what someone had written about Brentford’s position in the PL right now, with a wage bill of £41.5m.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

DBR, with all due respect, you’re missing the point I was trying to make. In the same way you don’t like references to Brentford, I don’t like references to Scunny, Bury, etc. because it suits whatever agendas people want to push.

My overriding concern though, is, if we’re a well run Club and everything is ticketyboo, why are we in such a mess? Maybe we will get back on track, who knows!

Quite clearly everything isnt/ wasn't ticketyboo and hopefully some of those issues are being addressed. Both managers were crippled by long term injuries to key players too.

My overriding concern as to why things have gone badly, is due to the changes of manager and support personnel (coaches/talent ID etc) . How can we hope to be successful if we're constantly changing regimes who bring different ideas about recruitment etc. It's all too short term.

Whilst some of the changes may have been outside our control, we desperately need some stability and a better platform. The HoF role may go quite some way to achieve that. For that reason too, I think McSheffrey should be given longer.

Brentford and Bournemouth are not models we can follow however there are other clubs who have had success and  ave evolved under good management with more financial prudence. 

[Donny Exile in York]

What i took from JRs 17 minute interview was in 17 minutes he spoke more about the playing side and showed more football nous and passion that in 7 years coming from Bramall and Blunt. I cant recall hearing them actually talk about performances on the pitch in a long time or show a detailed understanding of our strengths and weaknesses on the pitch! How refreshing to hear someone who is a fan first and foremost and who understands the game and talk openly about the playing side. The heart and soul of the club left when he did.  God knows how much we miss him as a club.

[Campsall rover]

As pissed off as we were with JR's experiment of free agents?

Christ Glyn, you sound fun at parties. Everything and anything you have an issue with unless it meets your belief.

Anyhow, I had two thoughts on the experiment, firstly that I was seeing players that never in a million years would anyone have said they would play for Doncaster Rovers, el Hadji diouf being one, yes he had a bad attitude but was a damn good footballer and in some cases he was a pleasure to watch. That for me I was excited to see….

However, on the flip side as was quite rightly pointed out, these players didn’t care for the club and spoilt the team morale which sadly ended up with us getting relegated and that is something that we don’t want to see at the club.

Were you watching the same experiment I was? El Hadji Diouf was the only one of them who DIDN'T have a bad attitude.

Are you kidding. He was not liked by the other players who were not part of the experiment.
Did you go to Watford at end of December.

Diouf was captain. Started wagging his finger at players in the team circle before the game and some players simply turned away from him.
The team spirit was appalling. Diouf took every free kick we had that day including ones our keeper should have been taking.
Not saying he wasn’t a good player, yes he was very talented. Attitude well he thought he was God in that team and no one was listening.

[Campsall rover]

Remind me again how much Brentford will be getting next season, bfyp?

Lots indeed.  But if you want to be Brentford how many clubs can risk a £41.5m wage budget. Is that seriously what you'd want us to do?

To add to that Bournemouth had a wage bill of £58m that year and didn't get promoted. In the premier League their wage bill was over £100m. They probably spent not far off on wages in a week what we spend in a year. Staggering figures.

I’ve lost track of how much money that PL clubs get from sky these days, is it around £160m.
If it is then I think a wage bill of £41.5m isn’t too extreme.
I wouldn’t be too concerned if Rovers were in their position.

Would you be worried in Derby's position to name but one?:

Yes of course, but I was talking about being in Brentford’s position in the PL.
Anything beyond that wasn’t mentioned.
Obviously Derby have gone way beyond where Brentford are with their wage bill.

Derby never got the Premier league money because they never made it to the promised land.
Brentford’s gamble paid off. Derby’s didn’t.
If Brentford had stayed another 2 seasons in the Championship then would their owners have been prepared to keep investing those crazy sums? If they had lost patience they would be in the same financial mess as Derby are now.

[drfc1951]

Did he say anything about the contribution Watson and Bramall made, without them we wouldnt have made it to the championship.

[Jonathan]

Did he say anything about the contribution Watson and Bramall made, without them we wouldnt have made it to the championship.

In the bits I listened to, as well as the scathing soundbites he also said some very complimentary things about the contributions of both Bramall and Watson. That’s what I meant about the contradictions. It was quite a hard listen and I gave up.

[wilts rover]

I would have thought it was fairly clear 'he was never keen on people outside the club telling him how to run it' were err, the people outsside the club who were criticising him and his appointments/actions during his running the club.

But what's that got to do with this interview?

I am answering your questions. If they are not relevant to the interview why are you asking them?

I gave my opinion to the interview in my first post. It hasn't changed.

[Sammy Chung was King]

You can’t retain a manager when it’s obvious he hasn’t got the ability, just so you’re not seen as a sacking club. That’s what people high up are paid to do, make decisions that other’s don’t want to make.

[BigKeif]

Did he say anything about the contribution Watson and Bramall made, without them we wouldnt have made it to the championship.

In the bits I listened to, as well as the scathing soundbites he also said some very complimentary things about the contributions of both Bramall and Watson. That’s what I meant about the contradictions. It was quite a hard listen and I gave up.

I thought this also, Jonathan. Another contradiction was that of him saying he wouldn’t be welcomed at the ground for a game but later on saying he rang Terry up and advised him on who we should get as manager after RW was sacked. Surely, Terry wouldn’t take his call if he doesn’t make him feel welcomed at the ground?

Before anyone jumps down my throat about that, it’s just what I took from what he had said.

[Bentley Bullet]

Who said it was Terry who would make him unwelcome?

[Jonathan]

He wouldn’t be unwelcome full stop, it’s nonsense. I expect he’d get a hero’s welcome from the overwhelming majority and rightly so for what he achieved here. But the quote generated lots of attention.

[TommyC]

I didn't take it as particularly contradictory. Obviously JR being JR there is a lot of "i did this" and "i did that" but to be honest, whilst some people may be more modest,  there's still a lot of truth in what he says. From 1998 until TB and DW came onto the board in 2007, it was the JR show and it delivered some of our best times and joyous successes. Yes we had people like Peter Wetzel and Trevor Milton and Jim Beresford who all I believe chipped in here and there but nobody can doubt that John was the person funding our growth and success, doing the hiring and firing, selling the club to potential signings and getting in front of the media.  I take no issue with him giving himself a pat on the back for that. He knew he wasn't rich enough to sustain a Championship level club, hence once it looked like this was where we could be heading, TB and DW came in to help fund those next glorious few years that followed. JR himself admitted he brought them in to fund what he clearly still saw as his football club! It's arguable from that interview that he STILL sees it as his football club which I find more touching/sentimental than I do offensive.

He does specifically acknowledge that subsequent success was founded upon "millions of pounds of Dick's money, millions of pounds of Terry's money and millions of pounds of my money".  I think that's fair comment and it cuts to the heart of the message I believe he was trying to convey. Namely, that you have to invest in the playing squad. He repeats that numerous times in that interview and I believe the way John has behaved throughout is borne out of his belief in that. From pushing through the signing of Billy (financially assisted by TB and DW of course), the experiment (rightly or wrongly) and the abortive sale to Sequentia. John clearly believes that to deliver the kinds of successes the club deserves, it needs quality players on the pitch.  He funded that as far as he was able with the odd six figure signing here and there. Once it went beyond that he got TB and DW in for the same reason. Then he saw the experiement as a cheap (and misguided) way to get good players into a Rovers shirt. Then he saw a hedge fund waving their cheque book about and again, he saw it as a way of having a shot at the big time. Finally we had the Louis Tomlinson charade. I think the common theme with all of it is that he knows it needs money and a lot of it to achieve success at Championship level.

In that context I don't see it as contradictory to still blame those same people on the board (and it seems TB is the primary focus of his frustrations) for the apparent decline in investment that he feels has taken place subsequently. He praises himself and the current board for past successes and investment. He is however quite rightly scathing at a lack of investment in recent years. That seems fair comment to me and entirely consistent with the JR we know.

[Campsall rover]

At the end of the Day JR is a mad keen DRFC fan. Terry Bramall unfortunately is not of that ilk.
That’s not a criticism of TB as he has put in many millions just yo keep the Club solvent.
If JR had the same wealth as TB I think we would be a solid Championship club.
I am sure he would quite willingly have invested 50 million over the last 10 years to keep us as a sustainable Championship club.

Like he said Dick Watson was a football man a massive fan of the club and without him and or JR we just don’t have that burning drive and ambition that was there when they were on the board.

[drfchound]

Remind me again how much Brentford will be getting next season, bfyp?

Lots indeed.  But if you want to be Brentford how many clubs can risk a £41.5m wage budget. Is that seriously what you'd want us to do?

To add to that Bournemouth had a wage bill of £58m that year and didn't get promoted. In the premier League their wage bill was over £100m. They probably spent not far off on wages in a week what we spend in a year. Staggering figures.

I’ve lost track of how much money that PL clubs get from sky these days, is it around £160m.
If it is then I think a wage bill of £41.5m isn’t too extreme.
I wouldn’t be too concerned if Rovers were in their position.

Would you be worried in Derby's position to name but one?:

Yes of course, but I was talking about being in Brentford’s position in the PL.
Anything beyond that wasn’t mentioned.
Obviously Derby have gone way beyond where Brentford are with their wage bill.

Derby never got the Premier league money because they never made it to the promised land.
Brentford’s gamble paid off. Derby’s didn’t.
If Brentford had stayed another 2 seasons in the Championship then would their owners have been prepared to keep investing those crazy sums? If they had lost patience they would be in the same financial mess as Derby are now.

Camps, I am aware of all that mate but as I said, I was talking in isolation about Brentford’s wage bill in the PL compared to the amount of money they get from the tv companies.
I feel sure you will agree that it isn’t extreme.

[Alan Southstand]

Like he said Dick Watson was a football man a massive fan of the club and without him and or JR we just don’t have that burning drive and ambition that was there when they were on the board.

Nail and head come to mind, Campsall. It really begs the question as to why TB doesn’t invite more investment onto the Board!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I didn't take it as particularly contradictory. Obviously JR being JR there is a lot of "i did this" and "i did that" but to be honest, whilst some people may be more modest,  there's still a lot of truth in what he says. From 1998 until TB and DW came onto the board in 2007, it was the JR show and it delivered some of our best times and joyous successes. Yes we had people like Peter Wetzel and Trevor Milton and Jim Beresford who all I believe chipped in here and there but nobody can doubt that John was the person funding our growth and success, doing the hiring and firing, selling the club to potential signings and getting in front of the media.  I take no issue with him giving himself a pat on the back for that. He knew he wasn't rich enough to sustain a Championship level club, hence once it looked like this was where we could be heading, TB and DW came in to help fund those next glorious few years that followed. JR himself admitted he brought them in to fund what he clearly still saw as his football club! It's arguable from that interview that he STILL sees it as his football club which I find more touching/sentimental than I do offensive.

He does specifically acknowledge that subsequent success was founded upon "millions of pounds of Dick's money, millions of pounds of Terry's money and millions of pounds of my money".  I think that's fair comment and it cuts to the heart of the message I believe he was trying to convey. Namely, that you have to invest in the playing squad. He repeats that numerous times in that interview and I believe the way John has behaved throughout is borne out of his belief in that. From pushing through the signing of Billy (financially assisted by TB and DW of course), the experiment (rightly or wrongly) and the abortive sale to Sequentia. John clearly believes that to deliver the kinds of successes the club deserves, it needs quality players on the pitch.  He funded that as far as he was able with the odd six figure signing here and there. Once it went beyond that he got TB and DW in for the same reason. Then he saw the experiement as a cheap (and misguided) way to get good players into a Rovers shirt. Then he saw a hedge fund waving their cheque book about and again, he saw it as a way of having a shot at the big time. Finally we had the Louis Tomlinson charade. I think the common theme with all of it is that he knows it needs money and a lot of it to achieve success at Championship level.

In that context I don't see it as contradictory to still blame those same people on the board (and it seems TB is the primary focus of his frustrations) for the apparent decline in investment that he feels has taken place subsequently. He praises himself and the current board for past successes and investment. He is however quite rightly scathing at a lack of investment in recent years. That seems fair comment to me and entirely consistent with the JR we know.

I think that's a very fair assessment.

The only thing I would add to that is when JR resigned and stopped contributing, then I don't think it was right to assume TB and DW would automatically make up that shortfall however, Club Doncaster was the vehicle that would make up at least some of it. If memory serves, in the second full year of trading, it did just that generating in excess of £1m.

Sadly, we lost DW too so his contribution stopped however, I don't think Club Doncaster was yet generating the income to replace that lost by JR and DW combined therefore, it's understandable the playing budget was likely to be less than what it could have been.

Add to that, the Covid period then we can see why that was a challenging time financially for everyone.

If TB has continued his annual contribution no questions asked, I wouldn't expect him to triple that just to make up for JR and DW.

Hindsight is great and when looking back, we weren't too concerned when McCann got a squad together that was capable of getting to the play offs so much of the decisions about 'investing' in the squad comes from the manager at the time.

All managers, even under JRs time are tasked to work to a budget and he knows you can't spend what you simply don't have however, I would agree from recent times, it seems we haven't been as smart with the key positions down the spine of the team.

For example. It's easy to say we invested in Marquis and Whitemen however, since then we've also invested in Anderson, John, Ferjiri, Halliday, James, Taylor,, Close, Rowe, Bostock, Clayton, Griffiths etc, etc, so I'm sure the manager of the day who signed these players saw them as investments.

Define investment? I think it's fair to say, it's about the potential quality of the player irrespective whether they cost a fee or not .

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Like he said Dick Watson was a football man a massive fan of the club and without him and or JR we just don’t have that burning drive and ambition that was there when they were on the board.

Nail and head come to mind, Campsall. It really begs the question as to why TB doesn’t invite more investment onto the Board!

It's a fair question Alan however there could be a number of reasons why that hasn't happened.

1. Could be TB thinks the budgets are sufficient to get us where we want to go so it comes back to the debate how well it's been used.
2. Inviting investment. Maybe there aren't any benefactors out there willing to match TBs contribution without a return. We may not be an attractive proposition if new money can't be secured against the ground etc.

Very few money men are as philanthropic  as we know many ownership models are based on huge loans secured against grounds and the owners are taking money out as their cut from the loan repayments.

[TommyC]

All of these very valid comments on here do raise a couple of issues with me that I'm surprised nobody really mentions much. We talk a lot of the contributions of JR, DW and TB. The "three amigos" as I believe JR referred to them in this interview. We now talk of TB shouldering the burden on his own.

My questions therefore relate to the fact that Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt each own one third shares in Club Doncaster (which in turn owns the Rovers) equal to the shareholding held by Terry Bramall. What exactly have they paid for their Shareholdings and what if any financial contribution do they make? Terry Bramall owns one third of Doncaster Rovers yet all we hear of is Terry investing. What are the other two owners contributing? How and when did they end up owning two thirds of the club?!

[roversdude]

Think the question is Tommy what are the shares actually worth

[TommyC]

Think the question is Tommy what are the shares actually worth

If they are worthless, I'd happily take them off their hands. I'd quite like play at owning a football club without putting any actual money of my own in.....

[PDX_Rover]

Shocking to see how John has slowed down and time has caught up with him. He gave us so many highlights and deserves complete gratitude and kudos for building the club back from a very sorry state. He also dropped some clangers, but we all do in life don’t we.

Andrew Watson and his sister stepping away was a big blow after losing Dick.

But we still have a club to love thanks to JR, and those supporters and other board members who worked hard to resurrect everything.

Quite a story eh?

And we got to live it!

[Padge_DRFC]

We won't be a championship club for decades IMO. Club Doncaster doesn't put in what John and Dick put in and the gap is just widening. The revenue from DRFC is probably half it was 12-13 years ago if not more.

[silent majority]

Think the question is Tommy what are the shares actually worth

If they are worthless, I'd happily take them off their hands. I'd quite like play at owning a football club without putting any actual money of my own in.....

I don't think you know how football clubs are run if you just think its about owning shares.

We own over 100,000 shares in DRFC, they're worth pennies.

[silent majority]

Let me also correct a few people on here, there was no Sequentia takeover bid followed by the Tomlinson Ryan takeover, there was only one. This document proves that.

[roversdude]

Think the question is Tommy what are the shares actually worth

If they are worthless, I'd happily take them off their hands. I'd quite like play at owning a football club without putting any actual money of my own in.....

I don't think you know how football clubs are run if you just think its about owning shares.

We own over 100,000 shares in DRFC, they're worth pennies.

Thanks SM you have posted that several times so i thought it was right