Labour's New Class War , The Left's Battle With The Working Class

[bobjimwilly]

It actually points out that some of the  working class having given their vote to the Tories have been badly let down .

That is, in the main, bs. The swing in votes to the Tories at the last GE was all about Brexit. And the Tories know it.

[SydneyRover]

I think tyke's left hand struggles to know what his right is doing.

[tyke1962]

I think tyke's left hand struggles to know what his right is doing.

On the contrary Syd Tyke is fully comfortable with his views on this debate .

The only people who appear to be struggling are the ones who can't even see or possibly wont admit what the Labour Party is today .

But that's tribalism for you .

[BillyStubbsTears]

It actually points out that some of the  working class having given their vote to the Tories have been badly let down .

Tyke, it is genuinely heartbreaking to watch you. Of COURSE they say the Tories have let down working class voters. This isn't about supporting the Tories. It goes way past that. It's the far right playbook right under your nose.

1) Split the coalition on the Left between the old working class left and the new young city left.

2) Hammer away at the former about how they've been abandoned.

3) Encourage anger about The Other. People who are sexually or ethnically different from them. Drive wedges between people.

4) Tell them that you know how they feel. You understand how they have been left abandoned. You are on their side against these bas**rds.

5) With the long term aim of recruiting their support for the New Fascism.

It's not about recruiting for the Tories. The Tories just get in the way. These people want your support like Oswald Moseley wanted your grandfather's support 90 years ago. And you seem all too willing to listen to them. What has happened to you?

[tyke1962]

It actually points out that some of the  working class having given their vote to the Tories have been badly let down .

Tyke, it is genuinely heartbreaking to watch you. Of COURSE they say the Tories have let down working class voters. This isn't about supporting the Tories. It goes way past that. It's the far right playbook right under your nose.

1) Split the coalition on the Left between the old working class left and the new young city left.

2) Hammer away at the former about how they've been abandoned.

3) Encourage anger about The Other. People who are sexually or ethnically different from them. Drive wedges between people.

4) Tell them that you know how they feel. You understand how they have been left abandoned. You are on their side against these bas**rds.

5) With the long term aim of recruiting their support for the New Fascism.

It's not about recruiting for the Tories. The Tories just get in the way. These people want your support like Oswald Moseley wanted your grandfather's support 90 years ago. And you seem all too willing to listen to them. What has happened to you?

Nothing's happened to me Billy , the debate is about what's happened to the Labour Party .

[SydneyRover]

The New Culture Forum

''The New Culture Forum is a right wing think tank aiming to change contemporary cultural debates which they argue are wrongly dominated by "the left". In their own words "If the right won the economic argument, in Culture Wars the left dominates. The New Culture Forum has been created to challenge the dogma and relativism of the establishment and redefine the parameters of the cultural and political debate"[1]. In a March 2009 presentation Tim Montgomerie and Matthew Elliott described the New Culture Forum as part of the infrastructure of the conservative movement in Britain''

https://www.wikicorporates.org/wiki/New_Culture_Forum

[MachoMadness]

Bizarre thread with some bizarre reasoning in it. Now, I'm not a fan of the current labour party and certainly wouldn't call it socialist. But any ostensibly socialist organisation has to explicitly protect Black and minority workers. It has to protect women, gay, and transgender as well. If you have a look on the RMT website you can find all sorts of policies addressing all these things. Are they betraying the working class too? Of course not, because it's basic solidarity. Something that grifting clowns like Embery aren't interested in.

Shockingly, there are some Black working class people too. It's a bizarre time when a builder who owns his own business, makes 80k a year and has a paid up mortgage and 2 cars on the drive can be considered working class, but a black lad in hackney waiting tables for minimum wage is part of the metropolitan liberal elite because he supports BLM.

If youre only comfortable showing solidarity with straight white men, then for once that isn't the Labour party's problem. Consider the National Front instead.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This. Perfectly put MM.

Tyke's approach, whether he acknowledges it or not, absolutely IS how fascism starts. The people behind the stuff he's posting understand that even if he doesn't. They play on driving divisions between people who at core actually have the same basic interests.

[tyke1962]

Let me make it perfectly clear , the points made in the video on culture , immigration , gay rights etc etc etc are perfectly reasonable things to support , nobody including myself are suggesting they aren't , they have their place in any modern day Political Party .

Where it goes spectacularly wrong and where some of the liberals start getting defensive and over emotional as played out on this thread is no party should be totally consumed by for want of a better term " minority issues " .

The if you don't see it this way then it will lead to fascism is absolute b@llox .

There isn't the slightest possibility of this country electing a fascist government , never going to happen .

What's missing in this debate which I'm clearly struggling to find is balance on the subject .

Now please take a deep breath , stop getting all dramatic and debate this subject credibly please .

It's not much to ask for .

[DonnyOsmond]

Let me make it perfectly clear , the points made in the video on culture , immigration , gay rights etc etc etc are perfectly reasonable things to support , nobody including myself are suggesting they aren't , they have their place in any modern day Political Party .

Where it goes spectacularly wrong and where some of the liberals start getting defensive and over emotional as played out on this thread is no party should be totally consumed by for want of a better term " minority issues " .

The if you don't see it this way then it will lead to fascism is absolute b@llox .

There isn't the slightest possibility of this country electing a fascist government , never going to happen .

What's missing in this debate which I'm clearly struggling to find is balance on the subject .

Now please take a deep breath , stop getting all dramatic and debate this subject credibly please .

It's not much to ask for .

But if the "minority issues" are working class issues then surely it's Labours place to take a stand? Most minorities will be working class.

[SydneyRover]

''Where it goes spectacularly wrong and where some of the liberals start getting defensive and over emotional as played out on this thread is no party should be totally consumed by for want of a better term " minority issues "

this is where you get it spectacularly wrong tyke.

[MachoMadness]

Oh aye. And which minority groups have I seen overwhelmingly supporting the strikes while d**kheads like Embery try to sow division?

https://twitter.com/Ruaraidh__/status/1540670978899857413?t=mIEjrOu1t9bb5jxnFbc1Aw&s=19

I imagine most of them on the pickets are grateful for the rainbow flags showing up to support, along with everyone else. But I suppose they're just over emotional liberals an all.

[tyke1962]

Oh aye. And which minority groups have I seen overwhelmingly supporting the strikes while d**kheads like Embery try to sow division?

https://twitter.com/Ruaraidh__/status/1540670978899857413?t=mIEjrOu1t9bb5jxnFbc1Aw&s=19

I imagine most of them on the pickets are grateful for the rainbow flags showing up to support, along with everyone else. But I suppose they're just over emotional liberals an all.

I'm sure Mick Lynch would welcome support from all walks of life and so would I if I was on that picket line .

You'll not see the main faces of the Labour Party showing solidarity with a trade union though will you ?

[MachoMadness]

No. But the new Labour party is choosing to distance themselves from the left. It's not the fault of BLM or other minority groups that Starmer's Labour party are as much use as tits on a fish. Because they've been shocking on equality issues as well.

Funnily enough one of the few Labour MPs who has been steadfast in supporting the strikers on and off the picket line is one of the ones supposedly obsessed with minority issues and out of touch with the working class - Diane Abbott. Weird that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick Lynch and the Media you say?

https://mobile.twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1540743271277887489

[tyke1962]

No. But the new Labour party is choosing to distance themselves from the left. It's not the fault of BLM or other minority groups that Starmer's Labour party are as much use as tits on a fish. Because they've been shocking on equality issues as well.

Funnily enough one of the few Labour MPs who has been steadfast in supporting the strikers on and off the picket line is one of the ones supposedly obsessed with minority issues and out of touch with the working class - Diane Abbott. Weird that.

But Keith is happy enough to be photographed taking the knee and showing support for BLM !!

[tyke1962]

And today David Lammy says " the Labour Party must not side with Heathrow staff in the pay dispute "

But gets to his feet in parliament and passionately backs BLM

https://youtu.be/pEzk9Uv43PQ

There's a pattern isn't there ?

But we are all working class aren't we ?

[Janso]

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like people fighting for the cause of people that don't have white skin, because that's the only impression I ever get from you.

[DonnyOsmond]

And today David Lammy says " the Labour Party must not side with Heathrow staff in the pay dispute "

But gets to his feet in parliament and passionately backs BLM

https://youtu.be/pEzk9Uv43PQ

There's a pattern isn't there ?

But we are all working class aren't we ?

The f*ck are you on about?

[tyke1962]

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like people fighting for the cause of people that don't have white skin, because that's the only impression I ever get from you.

Well the reason is very simple , it's not true .

Can you point out anything that I've contributed to this thread which isn't actually factual ?

If some of the things I've highlighted are uncomfortable for you to accept then your clearly the one with the problem and not me .

[tyke1962]

And today David Lammy says " the Labour Party must not side with Heathrow staff in the pay dispute "

But gets to his feet in parliament and passionately backs BLM

https://youtu.be/pEzk9Uv43PQ

There's a pattern isn't there ?

But we are all working class aren't we ?

The f*ck are you on about?

I assume you have the ability to read ?

[DonnyOsmond]

And today David Lammy says " the Labour Party must not side with Heathrow staff in the pay dispute "

But gets to his feet in parliament and passionately backs BLM

https://youtu.be/pEzk9Uv43PQ

There's a pattern isn't there ?

But we are all working class aren't we ?

The f*ck are you on about?

I assume you have the ability to read ?

Yes, you're suggesting MPs are only able to support either BLM or trade union strikes.

[wilts rover]

Well done Tyke - you are promoting ideaology from the ex-deputy leader of UKIP who runs this far-right think tank aiming to sow division and create barriers in our society. Their whole aim is to destroy socialism and anything benefitting a wider society - and replace it with personal greed and advancement of the already priviledged. They will make a fascist out of you yet. Well done.

The New Culture Forum is a neoconservative think tank aiming to change contemporary cultural debates which they argue are wrongly dominated by "the left". In their own words "If the right won the economic argument, in Culture Wars the left dominates. The New Culture Forum has been created to challenge the dogma and relativism of the establishment and redefine the parameters of the cultural and political debate.

In a March 2009 presentation Tim Montgomerie and Matthew Elliott described the New Culture Forum as part of the infrastructure of the conservative movement in Britain.

So it's not a definitive assessment of the Labour Party then ?

Yes / No

Its a definitive assesment of the Labour Party from the right wing. They hate the Labour Party and anyone who campaigns for an equal and fairer society.

If that's where you are - just be honest & admit it.

There are plenty of ways tha Labour Party could improve - but not through that ****

A fairer society means different things to different people .

Just because my idea of a fairer society doesn't reconcile with yours doesn't mean I don't want to see it .

My idea of a fairer society is exactly the opposite of the people who made that video. If yours is the same as them, greater power and privledge for the wealthy, attacking minorities etc, then dont ever claim to be a socialist ever again.

I haven't watched it btw - I'm not going to put their views up - but I know who they are and what they want.

You are aware I take it that a huge proportion of people in this country have a huge problem with the Labour Party and the vast majority have probably only voted Tory once in their life if they have at all .

This isn't just some demographic that's temporarily pyssed off like Tiverton voters probably are with the Tories .

This is deep rooted bordering on hatred .

As I say a fairer society means different things to different people .

Are you aware you have posted a right wing propoganda video? Of course they hate the Labour Party. The BUF/NF/BNP/UKIP and there miriad splinter groups have always hated left wing policies.

Thats what you posted.

Until you a

How do you know it's a propaganda video ?

Almost anyone could have made that video and it would have turned out the same way .

People didn't desert Labour , Labour deserted  them .

That's the message from the video if you cared to actually watch it Wilts

How do I know its a propoganda video - have you not read all my previous posts (that are handily quoted above)? Have you not looked at the others they have made? Did you not look at who you were promoting?

I am not watching right-wing propoganda for you or anyone else.

Almost anyone could have made it - No they couldn't!!! Only right-wing propoganists make right-wing propoganda videos - and you chose to promote this one.

If you like it because you agree with their views - its not my problem that you dont like me pointing it out.

It's only a propaganda video in your opinion it doesn't make it one .

It actually points out that some of the  working class having given their vote to the Tories have been badly let down .

It ends by saying that in reality the working class really have no other place to go other than Labour , warts n all .

If it was a right wing propaganda which it wasn't its not a very good one .

Its a right wing propoganda video because the people who made it say it is!!!! They make no bones about being a right wing propoganda organisation whose role is to inflame the culture war from the right. Go read about them.

Of course they dont like the Labour Party and want working class people to go elsewhere - they are a right wng propoganda organisation. Their whole remit is get people to move away from Labour and left wing/socialist ideas.

The definition of Propaganda is

 " information especially of a biased or misleading nature used to promote a political cause or view "

It's pretty much established as a solid fact that the Labour Party have an overwhelming middle class , metropolitan graduate base .

The 2020 Labour Party " rule book " mentions BAME 140 times .

Gender representation 40 times .

There were 4 mentions of increasing working class representation .

The conclusions drawn from the above facts is that the Labour Party may  consider the privately educated ethnic graduate to be more oppressed than a " warehouse worker " in Doncaster or Barnsley given its huge support within that demographic .

So no propaganda isn't at play here , what's at play here is your refusal to admit what the Labour Party considers to be its main focus of representation .

I have said earlier (and on numerous threads over many years) there are plenty of problems with the Labour Party.

What I also said earlier is I refuse to discuss them on a thread about a right wing propoganda video.

The proplem here is you refusing to admit that a right wing propoganda video is a right wing propoganda video - when even the makers of it say it is.

And you agree with it. Just like the working class who joined the BUF/NF/BNP/NA and all the rest agreed with their propoganda. That's how it starts Tyke.

[Ldr]

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like people fighting for the cause of people that don't have white skin, because that's the only impression I ever get from you.

Well the reason is very simple , it's not true .

Can you point out anything that I've contributed to this thread which isn't actually factual ?

If some of the things I've highlighted are uncomfortable for you to accept then your clearly the one with the problem and not me .

There you go Tyke you have hit the only thing some people have left, if you disagree with the clique on here, they brand you a racist or a facist makes them feel big

[MachoMadness]

Keir Starmer taking the knee once, 2 years ago, in the immediate aftermath of the George Floyd killing hardly makes him the second coming of Malcolm X, does it? If that's all that it takes for a party to be "consumed by minority issues" then people are going to question why you think that. So I take issue that any of this nonsense is "factual".

[wilts rover]

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like people fighting for the cause of people that don't have white skin, because that's the only impression I ever get from you.

Well the reason is very simple , it's not true .

Can you point out anything that I've contributed to this thread which isn't actually factual ?

If some of the things I've highlighted are uncomfortable for you to accept then your clearly the one with the problem and not me .

There you go Tyke you have hit the only thing some people have left, if you disagree with the clique on here, they brand you a racist or a facist makes them feel big

And if you agree with racists and fascists what does that make you?

And who might not like it being pointed out that you are agreeing with racists and fascists?

Just because you say something people dont like then that doesn't mean its not true. It's all the more reason for saying it. Fascism aways thrives during periods of economic depression. And that is what we are just about to hit. The people who's video Tyke linked to are playing on that.

[tyke1962]

And today David Lammy says " the Labour Party must not side with Heathrow staff in the pay dispute "

But gets to his feet in parliament and passionately backs BLM

https://youtu.be/pEzk9Uv43PQ

There's a pattern isn't there ?

But we are all working class aren't we ?

The f*ck are you on about?

I assume you have the ability to read ?

Yes, you're suggesting MPs are only able to support either BLM or trade union strikes.

Actually it's the Labour Party who are choosing to support BLM but not the current disputes I'm just giving you the facts .

[tyke1962]

Keir Starmer taking the knee once, 2 years ago, in the immediate aftermath of the George Floyd killing hardly makes him the second coming of Malcolm X, does it? If that's all that it takes for a party to be "consumed by minority issues" then people are going to question why you think that. So I take issue that any of this nonsense is "factual".

We are getting emotional and dramatic again aren't we ?

The second coming of Malcolm X , the country will descend in to fascism .

Did Keith and Angela Rayner take the knee on camera in support of BLM and have you seen either of them on an RMT picket line ?

Yes or no .

[Ldr]

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like people fighting for the cause of people that don't have white skin, because that's the only impression I ever get from you.

Well the reason is very simple , it's not true .

Can you point out anything that I've contributed to this thread which isn't actually factual ?

If some of the things I've highlighted are uncomfortable for you to accept then your clearly the one with the problem and not me .

There you go Tyke you have hit the only thing some people have left, if you disagree with the clique on here, they brand you a racist or a facist makes them feel big

And if you agree with racists and fascists what does that make you?

And who might not like it being pointed out that you are agreeing with racists and fascists?

Just because you say something people dont like then that doesn't mean its not true. It's all the more reason for saying it. Fascism aways thrives during periods of economic depression. And that is what we are just about to hit. The people who's video Tyke linked to are playing on that.

Its beyond that on here mate, its the go to now for some

[tyke1962]

Why don't you just come out and say you don't like people fighting for the cause of people that don't have white skin, because that's the only impression I ever get from you.

Well the reason is very simple , it's not true .

Can you point out anything that I've contributed to this thread which isn't actually factual ?

If some of the things I've highlighted are uncomfortable for you to accept then your clearly the one with the problem and not me .

There you go Tyke you have hit the only thing some people have left, if you disagree with the clique on here, they brand you a racist or a facist makes them feel big

And if you agree with racists and fascists what does that make you?

And who might not like it being pointed out that you are agreeing with racists and fascists?

Just because you say something people dont like then that doesn't mean its not true. It's all the more reason for saying it. Fascism aways thrives during periods of economic depression. And that is what we are just about to hit. The people who's video Tyke linked to are playing on that.

Your beginning to come across like Kay Burley and Piers Morgan did interviewing Mick Lynch last week .

The truth probably lies somewhere in the fact it's not who was responsible for the making of the video but the fact that the content in it makes uncomfortable viewing and you are using it as a shield .

I mean c'mon fella you ain't even watched it .