Just how long HAS Rishi been plotting to take No 10?

[wilts rover]

So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.

Sorry Syd, but there are many examples of Starmer lying.

For example, saying on Twitter that candidates should not be imposed on local parties, then doing exactly that in Wakefield and Stroud, leading to local members resigning.

I didn't know Starmer chose Labour Party candidates Albie, you sure about that?

And if you are wrong - does that mean you are lying?

https://twitter.com/BloxsomJohn/status/1542636666212548614

[BillyStubbsTears]

Spot the difference.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F

https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw

God help us. She's second favourite.

Christ alive, she's going to win!

[SydneyRover]

So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.

Sorry Syd, but there are many examples of Starmer lying.

For example, saying on Twitter that candidates should not be imposed on local parties, then doing exactly that in Wakefield and Stroud, leading to local members resigning.

If you mark that down as a lie you may as well opt out of politics as there won't be anyone to vote for. Whatever you said/repeated about Starmer and Savile was that a lie?

[SydneyRover]

To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him.  There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.

More of this nonsense.

There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.

You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.

You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.

There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.

Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.

In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.

Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.

I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.

[drfchound]

Spot the difference.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F

https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw

God help us. She's second favourite.

Christ alive, she's going to win!

Someone is going to have a long night searching through everything to try and find something to discredit her.

[wilts rover]

Spot the difference.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F

https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw

God help us. She's second favourite.

Christ alive, she's going to win!

Someone is going to have a long night searching through everything to try and find something to discredit her.

Aye, about 30 seconds

https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1547338709242200065

[SydneyRover]

another belly flop

[BillyStubbsTears]

No need to go searching. Here she was just the other day being interviewed by Iain Dale and doubling down on an Objective Lie she pushed during the Brexit campaign.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1546931094238412800

It was an Objective Truth that we had a veto. Saying we didn't was a straight lie.

Trying then to justify that by saying we didn't have a veto because Cameron had said we didn't want to use it and that this tied our hands is a clever attempt at interpretation, not a lie. But coming from someone who is in the Cabinet of a PM who signed a legally binding international treaty, then just passed legislation to rip that up, it's an interpretation that falls apart as soon as you look at it. So first she lied on a matter of fact. Then she tried to explain the lie by an illogical argument. Not the best of starts.

There's another issue where people are incorrectly saying she's a liar. A couple of years back she said very clearly that she believed trans men are men and trans women are women. Today, she changed her stance on that. That is a change of opinion, not a lie. She's doing it because she won't get elected by the Tory membership unless she does. You may think that's unprincipled, but most politicians have to do that at some point. A perfect example was Corbyn having a lifelong belief that we should leave NATO and unilaterally give up our nuclear weapons, but leading a Labour party into an election  committed to NATO membership and retaining nuclear weapons.

That's the reality of politics. Anyone who dismisses every politician who does that as a liar is still at playground level.

[SydneyRover]

they don't want to see it do they

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way SS.

Look what your Golden Boy is saying.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sunak-says-he-will-run-economy-like-thatcher-if-elected-uk-pm-telegraph-2022-07-12/

That should go down well in the Red Wall seats...

[drfchound]

another belly flop

.


What happened, did you take your corset off?

[Colemans Left Hook]

.......................

That's the reality of politics. Anyone who dismisses every politician who does that as a liar is still at playground level.

also

Anyone who dismisses every politician in an ephemeral moment as a "kitson" is still at playground level.

as for repeatedly commenting on an MP's gait   f.f.s.  thank g0d we haven't heard that line for a couple of years

[SydneyRover]

Truss has been inspiring with her 'farmers grow food' reference

[wilts rover]

Liz Truss, the woman who can't even find the correct way out of her own campaign launch - gawd help us

https://twitter.com/torysleazeUK/status/1547529473968312321

[BillyStubbsTears]

.......................

That's the reality of politics. Anyone who dismisses every politician who does that as a liar is still at playground level.

also

Anyone who dismisses every politician in an ephemeral moment as a "kitson" is still at playground level.

as for repeatedly commenting on an MP's gait   f.f.s.  thank g0d we haven't heard that line for a couple of years

No. That was an entirely justified and reasonable response, to senior politician ranting about deporting ALL citizens of a country. That was a f**king stupid thing to say and would, if implemented, f**k up the lives of thousands of honest, hardworking people who had made their home here. Including a very close friend whom I've known for 20 years and who we are privileged to have in this country.

That wasn't anything to do with what we are talking about on the issue of lying on matters of Objective Truth. It was a senior MP shooting his mouth off without giving thought to the implications of what he was saying. Without taking the responsibility that comes with his position. And he could be PM in 7 weeks time.

[SydneyRover]

Do voters in the run-offs have to show ID?

[BillyStubbsTears]

As for the particular MP's gait, you clearly didn't pick up on the implication. I'll spell it out. Michael Gove has a history of being a coke head. He frequently exhibits weird physical behaviour that suggests he's off his tits.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Liz Truss, the woman who can't even find the correct way out of her own campaign launch - gawd help us

https://twitter.com/torysleazeUK/status/1547529473968312321

Penny Mordaunt once took a challenge to say "cock" at every opportunity in a Parliamentary debate.Maybe Truss has been challenged to play out a Big Lebowski exit scene.

https://youtu.be/AerwiwxNtwo?t=84

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/07/13/penny-mordaunt-clear-favourite-next-conservative-l

Only just caught up fully with this. Fascinating stuff for seeing into the minds (sic) of Tory party members.

Scroll down to the head-to-head figures.

Basically Sunak loses hands down to Mordaunt & Truss in a straight face off. He loses comfortably to Tugendhat and Badenoch, even though she is barking mad.

The only one he would have comfortably beaten was Hunt.

Now look at what the candidates are saying. Truss, Mordaunt, Badenoch and Tugendhat are saying they will shower us with massive, unfunded tax cuts. The only two who said that it wasn't right to bring in tax cuts were...Sunak and Hunt.

That's the core of the story. You dangle tax cuts in front of the backwoodsmen and they follow Zombie-like.

[drfchound]

No tax cuts?

The following from the guardian:

“Rishi Sunak will kick off his leadership campaign on Tuesday with a promise to grip inflation and lower taxes, as speculation mounted over which candidates could swing in behind the former chancellor.”

[Hounslowrover]

Tax cuts will come from Rishi, but he’ll probably wait until there’s an election, not likely soon.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him.  There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.

More of this nonsense.

There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.

You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.

You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.

There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.

Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.

In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.

Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.

I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.

What has anyone else ever offered me that makes me want to vote for them?

[BillyStubbsTears]

To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him.  There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.

More of this nonsense.

There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.

You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.

You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.

There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.

Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.

In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.

Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.

I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.

What has anyone else ever offered me that makes me want to vote for them?

How about 2010?

Labour offered a classic, textbook Keynesian stimulus package to help us climb out of the hole of the GFC recession.

The Tories offered Voodoo Economics, focussing on Deficit Uber Alles. Their Austerity had no theoretical foundation, and only the thinnest empirical backing, that was already known to be  flaky at best.

Do you agree that you made the wrong choice there?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Not particularly at the time no.  However, what I would say is that I'd be more tempted now to go for that than what both parties are offering currently which shows just how far things have fallen.  There is still no doubt in my mind that 2010 needed a new government and I still fundamentally believe there was too much spending in the wrong areas at times during the labour government, the welfare state for one was too big back then.

But, I'd argue that the same can be said of the next election with the parties switched.  The current Tory government is offering little by way of solutions and not going far with its promises.  I also don't think that labour offer much alternative if I'm honest.

[ravenrover]

I love how they all talk as though they have had nothing to do with the last 3 years of Government

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

In 2010, it really didn't matter WHERE the spending went. What mattered was that Govt spent somewhere - anywhere, to keep money flowing round the economy. That is absolutely nailed down basic economics.

You say we needed a new Govt then. But the new Govt introduced the worst macro-economic policy for 80 years. That's nw beyond all doubt. It's clear that their Austerity throttled off growth altogether  for two years, then hobbled it afterwards. Our productivity and long term growth have been absolutely smashed by that. I genuinely astonished that anyone can look back over this past decade and not see that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You don't have to believe me by the way. Here's the ONS's own figures.



Yes the GFC was a massive hit to the economy. But by 2010, we had bottomed out and ad started clawing our way back. There is no reason whatsoever why our ten year growth shouldn't have returned to 20-30% if we'd followed the correct policies. Instead it collapsed to the worst level for 200 years. With the concomitant collapse in wage growth.

It happened, so people tend to think it was inevitable. It wasn't. It was a policy choice. To get the Tories in power. Nothing less. And people wonder why I despise them.

[scawsby steve]

By the way SS.

Look what your Golden Boy is saying.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sunak-says-he-will-run-economy-like-thatcher-if-elected-uk-pm-telegraph-2022-07-12/

That should go down well in the Red Wall seats...

MY golden boy? Sorry, BST, you're confusing me with someone who gives a f*ck.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anyone wanting to understand politics over the next couple of years needs to get this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1547638785659219969?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

First of all that explains the slavish, mindless promises of tax cuts or Thatcherite economics by the Tory candidates. They have to say that because their party member, and even moreso, their MPs are off the right hand scale on economics.

But voters aren't.

Even mainstream Tory voters aren't off at the batshit far right of economic views. Still less the Red Wall 2019 Tory voters.

So the Tories cannot win on economics in 2024.

Which is what I've been saying for months.

But where they CAN win is in a Culture War. Which is why an obsessive nobody like Badenoch is raising her profile. Because she's standing as the Culture Warrior. And she'll get a Cabinet Position. And then expect full on Culture War rhetoric from the Tories.

Welcome to the next 2 years.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way SS.

Look what your Golden Boy is saying.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sunak-says-he-will-run-economy-like-thatcher-if-elected-uk-pm-telegraph-2022-07-12/

That should go down well in the Red Wall seats...

MY golden boy? Sorry, BST, you're confusing me with someone who gives a f*ck.

You e been telling us for months that Sunak was going to turn the Tories around and he'd put the shits up Labour. I assumed he impressed you.