Next General Election (snap election or 2025 ish?)

[Donnywolf]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/22-countries-voting-mandatory

SS ....
22 Countries around the world manage it and look who they are.

I don't have a view either way btw

[SydneyRover]

In Oz there is a small fine for not voting and can of course do a pre-poll vote or postal vote or write to the AEC afterwards explaining why you didn't make it. Having the vote on Saturday makes it a bit easier for many.

[danumdon]

Since the formation of the Labour Party in 1900 FPT has more often than not delivered a Tory government.

If these had been run under PR system they would almost always have been a Non-Tory majority.

Labour should be looking at PR but it wont. Because as I have said before the Labour Party IS a coalition of a number of factions with very little in common with one another. Under PR these would split into their own parties - meaning the end of the LP as we (they) know it.

I've said the same before, on my reckoning were talking between 3 and 4 factions that would split and merge with other left and far left groups, its not just Labour but the Tories would also split into at least 3 groups and merge with right and far right leaning groups, Would the electorate be better served having all these sub groups fighting their corner and holding the prime group to ransom with some extreme right or left ideology?

I'm i right in thinking that a change to PR would require another referendum to be organised and executed, we all remember who much that bombed the last time the LibDems tried to ensure they remained relevant.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I've said the same before, on my reckoning were talking between 3 and 4 factions that would split and merge with other left and far left groups, its not just Labour but the Tories would also split into at least 3 groups and merge with right and far right leaning groups, Would the electorate be better served having all these sub groups fighting their corner and holding the prime group to ransom with some extreme right or left ideology?

I'm i right in thinking that a change to PR would require another referendum to be organised and executed, we all remember who much that bombed the last time the LibDems tried to ensure they remained relevant.

There is that theory of "extremists" becoming more powerful, but it's not logical. As we know, in all current parties there are factions and they work together within the parties in much the same way as they would if they were in a coalition together rather than factions in the same party.

Is it more or less democratic? I think it's undoubtedly more democratic as people can choose exactly who they want to vote for rather than the current fudged system whereby the main parties have to have that "broad" appeal which creates the monsters like Blair and Starmer who are effective dictators. Though that is assuming a perfect PR system which won't nearly happen, so we will have a system that is a dumbed down system.

For an analogy, of a dumbed down system, think of Simon Cowel, Louis Walsh and a few others deciding all music that we are allowed to hear. Then we wouldn't have the "extremists" like the Sex Pistols, Oasis, The Clash, Bauhous etc etc. Nasty extremists eh!

In a coalition, various factions add colour to policies, and modify, indeed dumb down other ones. The being held to ransom is no more likely to happen than it does now when eg a gov needs to grab votes.

Is having party whips democratic? Not at all.

But all of this is pure bull when eg we have people like Johnson not slung in prison. There is very little in this country that reflects democracy, just dumbed down mediocracy supporting a system that is about a few people milking the rest of us. I think PR in the way it will be introduced will be little more than a temporary distraction, another layer of illusion of people power and democracy. I hope I'm wrong.

[roverstillidie91]

There isn't an option for "none of them, 'cos they're all the same".

I read something on Twitter in regards to the RMT strike, I work on the railway so I am involved in the industrial action.

Do people think it is time that there is a new political party, like a workers party and take back control of the so called establishment because all it appears is that the main political parties are trying to create a 'Dictatorship' and to make the richer richer and the poorer poorer

[Donnywolf]

Since the formation of the Labour Party in 1900 FPT has more often than not delivered a Tory government.

If these had been run under PR system they would almost always have been a Non-Tory majority.

Labour should be looking at PR but it wont. Because as I have said before the Labour Party IS a coalition of a number of factions with very little in common with one another. Under PR these would split into their own parties - meaning the end of the LP as we (they) know it.

Am i right in thinking that a change to PR would require another referendum to be organised and executed, we all remember who much that bombed the last time the LibDems tried to ensure they remained relevant.

I've been suggesting for 2 years that at next Election the opposition band together and go 1 v 1 v Tories in every Seat

If their Manifesto had " if we are Elected as the Majority Party we will introduce PR * immediately"

* They would hopefully have a clear idea of what format it would take or come up with one almost immediately

Then they could dissolve Parliament and call our first PR GE where the Parties get the Seats that they deserve

By doing it that way I think it is entirely democratic and would not need a Referendum as I assume Conservatives would want to stick with FPTP

[roverstillidie91]

Since the formation of the Labour Party in 1900 FPT has more often than not delivered a Tory government.

If these had been run under PR system they would almost always have been a Non-Tory majority.

Labour should be looking at PR but it wont. Because as I have said before the Labour Party IS a coalition of a number of factions with very little in common with one another. Under PR these would split into their own parties - meaning the end of the LP as we (they) know it.

Am i right in thinking that a change to PR would require another referendum to be organised and executed, we all remember who much that bombed the last time the LibDems tried to ensure they remained relevant.

I've been suggesting for 2 years that at next Election the opposition band together and go 1 v 1 v Tories in every Seat

If their Manifesto had " if we are Elected as the Majority Party we will introduce PR * immediately"

* They would hopefully have a clear idea of what format it would take or come up with one almost immediately

Then they could dissolve Parliament and call our first PR GE where the Parties get the Seats that they deserve

By doing it that way I think it is entirely democratic and would not need a Referendum as I assume Conservatives would want to stick with FPTP

Isn't it time that we got rid of the ESTABLISHMENT as I would call it, seeing as even with the industrial strikes that not only Conservatives want the poorest in society to be poorer but this also includes Labour.

What would be handy is a tactical vote however will people that don't vote go out and make all the difference and change that?

[SydneyRover]

It would be good to post something, anything that supports your views R91

[selby]

  Looking at those vote numbers, how many on here think that the Conservative vote has grown in this area in the last 30 years in the Doncaster Area, with over 50% in this poll ( I didn't vote so that would have been 9 for the Conservatives) I think it has done, and after years of disastrous leadership and publicity the number of undecided who could also swing right is a big worry for the Labour party.
  And that is in an area I never ever thought would vote anything else but Labour.

[danumdon]

  Looking at those vote numbers, how many on here think that the Conservative vote has grown in this area in the last 30 years in the Doncaster Area, with over 50% in this poll ( I didn't vote so that would have been 9 for the Conservatives) I think it has done, and after years of disastrous leadership and publicity the number of undecided who could also swing right is a big worry for the Labour party.
  And that is in an area I never ever thought would vote anything else but Labour.

I think when you look at the makeup of all three Doncaster area seats it looks to me like there has always been a large minority conservative vote in the Central and Don Valley seats, The Don North seat looks like a proper true Labour stronghold.

For all the industrial nature of the City its always had a large conservative minded group, it was always the case that people had it conditioned into them to vote Labour for this working class city, an Aardvark with a red rosette would win the seat if required. I now get the impression that many more voters now think a little more on the local situation, look, read and see how a permanent Labour council have traditionally fared in running the local government and realise that its always been to a poor standard, with self interest, cronyism and poor outcomes being the predominant result.

This then manifests itself into how voters who were dyed in the wool Labour supporters now see the national picture.A labour party that's run for the benefit of a middle class metropolitan elite, abandoning true working class Labour supporters and their struggle to make ends meet. The aspirations and ideals of these voters are now not to be found in this current Labour party, was it any wonder so many of them decided to try their luck with a Tory party that only just sits to the right of centre of this Labour party.


The mould has now been broken here and in many other former Labour majority areas, if this current Labour party has a proper strategy to woo back these voters then it needs to start to let them know, because hoping to live off the failure of the current incumbents wont last for ever and if their not careful will find that all their meaningful ideals that they stand for will have been pilfered and reformed as Tory manifesto. I get the distinct impression that Keith is swaying with the wind and will find come election day that he has been outsmarted again by a proactive Tory campaign.

[phil old leake]

SS I think that some countries do have mandatory voting

Syd might put me right here but I thought that it was mandatory in Australia

IDM the none of the above vote is to spoil your paper.  Those that say they don’t vote because it’s a waste of time because of the voting system could show their solidarity by all spoiling their ballot

[drfchound]

  Looking at those vote numbers, how many on here think that the Conservative vote has grown in this area in the last 30 years in the Doncaster Area, with over 50% in this poll ( I didn't vote so that would have been 9 for the Conservatives) I think it has done, and after years of disastrous leadership and publicity the number of undecided who could also swing right is a big worry for the Labour party.
  And that is in an area I never ever thought would vote anything else but Labour.

I think when you look at the makeup of all three Doncaster area seats it looks to me like there has always been a large minority conservative vote in the Central and Don Valley seats, The Don North seat looks like a proper true Labour stronghold.

For all the industrial nature of the City its always had a large conservative minded group, it was always the case that people had it conditioned into them to vote Labour for this working class city, an Aardvark with a red rosette would win the seat if required. I now get the impression that many more voters now think a little more on the local situation, look, read and see how a permanent Labour council have traditionally fared in running the local government and realise that its always been to a poor standard, with self interest, cronyism and poor outcomes being the predominant result.

This then manifests itself into how voters who were dyed in the wool Labour supporters now see the national picture.A labour party that's run for the benefit of a middle class metropolitan elite, abandoning true working class Labour supporters and their struggle to make ends meet. The aspirations and ideals of these voters are now not to be found in this current Labour party, was it any wonder so many of them decided to try their luck with a Tory party that only just sits to the right of centre of this Labour party.


The mould has now been broken here and in many other former Labour majority areas, if this current Labour party has a proper strategy to woo back these voters then it needs to start to let them know, because hoping to live off the failure of the current incumbents wont last for ever and if their not careful will find that all their meaningful ideals that they stand for will have been pilfered and reformed as Tory manifesto. I get the distinct impression that Keith is swaying with the wind and will find come election day that he has been outsmarted again by a proactive Tory campaign.

Syd will be along soon to ask you to make your points more clearly.   

[selby]

  Why Syd Hound, it would be a waste of time, you can't grow crops on stony ground you know.

[SydneyRover]

SS I think that some countries do have mandatory voting

Syd might put me right here but I thought that it was mandatory in Australia

IDM the none of the above vote is to spoil your paper.  Those that say they don’t vote because it’s a waste of time because of the voting system could show their solidarity by all spoiling their ballot

The OP and post #2 phil

[SydneyRover]

  Why Syd Hound, it would be a waste of time, you can't grow crops on stony ground you know.

I thought you'd still be in mourning for your leader, the clown king of spiv, although they do appear to have been thwarted by wedging himself in the doorway. it can't be nice being snubbed you've tried your hardest a faithful servant to the last and yet you didn't go to the wedding, they must have their own gardener selby

[jonrover]

There isn't an option for "none of them, 'cos they're all the same".

I read something on Twitter in regards to the RMT strike, I work on the railway so I am involved in the industrial action.

Do people think it is time that there is a new political party, like a workers party and take back control of the so called establishment because all it appears is that the main political parties are trying to create a 'Dictatorship' and to make the richer richer and the poorer poorer

Yes.

And I don't think it's that far away either. If Unite members vote to disaffiliate from Labour next year, I can see a serious coordinated effort to pump real resources into an alternative (unlike TUSC which was nothing more than a Socialist Party/ex militant front with a few coppers thrown in from the RMT - who have recently voted to ditch TUSC themselves)

Personally, as far as the poll goes, if all remains the same and Starmer continues to cower in the corner, scared of his own shadow while workers fight for the ability to heat their homes and put food on the table, I'll be spoiling my ballot paper as I did in the SY mayoral contest. I know Coppard from old. We've nowt to come from him, a careerist cretin. He'll be worse than two jobs Jarvis and that's one hell of an achievement.