Sunak or Truss

[wilts rover]

Or.

Am I underestimating her?

What if she gives a massive tax cut, gets a huge bounce in the polls then calls an October election?

That's what Labour are expecting

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/22/liz-trusss-arrival-in-no-10-could-deliver-tories-a-big-bounce-in-polls

[BillyStubbsTears]

That would be the ultimate in treating the British electorate as too thick to understand. Give them a tax cut that will both damage the economy and do nowt to protect the most vulnerable in this crisis, then tell people they've never had it so good and please re-elect me.

[tommy toes]

Or.

Am I underestimating her?

What if she gives a massive tax cut, gets a huge bounce in the polls then calls an October election?

I hope so. Surely even the Tories can't fool all of the people all of the time.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

People vote with their pockets more often than not. Don't forget she's a politician first and foremost.  Again it's immoral to say one thing and not follow it through (I expect Sydney will agree with that it being about a conservative).

I agree with bst though you have to balance between support and doing too much.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP
A tax cut isn't in the same postcode as "balance" for what is required in this emergency.

People's ability to  get through this winter is inversely proportional to their income. It's the poorest that will need the biggest help just to survive. Literally to survive.

Income tax or NI cuts will give zero to the poorest.  But they'll be a nice wedge to the richest few percent of the population.

Tax cuts, other than VAT should not be remotely close to being on the agenda. What is needed is either price caps or targeted benefits.

[SydneyRover]

People vote with their pockets more often than not. Don't forget she's a politician first and foremost.  Again it's immoral to say one thing and not follow it through (I expect Sydney will agree with that it being about a conservative).

I agree with bst though you have to balance between support and doing too much.

Pud, start with the basics like tories are in government, labour are not, and see how you go with that for a while.

[wilts rover]

People vote with their pockets more often than not. Don't forget she's a politician first and foremost.  Again it's immoral to say one thing and not follow it through (I expect Sydney will agree with that it being about a conservative).

I agree with bst though you have to balance between support and doing too much.

Truss has promised people that if elected that she will give people a tax cut. Whilst at the same time she has promised people more government help to pay energy bills in the winter.

Only one of those things is possible. You can have less money in government and not be able to give any away or more money in government that you can give away. There's no magic money tree.

I await with interest to see what she does - and whether you think she is immoral or not.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts.

She CAN do both. But it's the consequence of that which is the problem.

Sorting out the energy bills is going to take something like £30-50bn minimum. That's money that the Govt will ave to pump into the economy one way or another. Every 1% she cuts Income Tax or NI by will put another £6bn into the economy. Standard textbook economics says if Govt pumps money into the economy, it increases inflation. And THAT is the problem. Stoking up inflation when it is already high risks making high inflation semi-permanent, with all the negative problems for the economy that would entail.

[wilts rover]

Dont forget the effect on government spending and debt Billy.

Sunaks budget last year was delivered on an expectation on inflation being at - I think - 4%. It's currently 10% and set to go higher. She needs to find the money to fund this. If she cuts taxes then she is going to need to borrow to give people assistance. At a time when interest rates are rising, thus debt starts rising - and the only way of raising money government money to pay off debt is...

She can't cut taxes and give assistance - the money isn't there. Someone is going to be disappointed.

[tyke1962]

The Tories and clearly Truss are spoiling for a fight with the Trade Unions and possibly " People Movements " .

The Trade Unions thus far are playing an absolute blinder in my opinion .

What's passing the Tories by is that 70% of the country aren't buying the Trade Unions are militant , holding the country to ransom or the enemy within line .

This isn't 1979 when the country was fed up with industrial action and a GE on the horizon .

The Trade Union leaders of today are nothing like Scargill and co intent on toppling capitalism and there are no Red Rob's today .

My view is that because the Tories can't destroy the Trade Unions through the usual divide and conquer route and place the country against them they have one bullet remaining in their gun which they are threatening to use .

Bring in even more anti union legislation to make legal strike action almost impossible .

This in reality brings everything to a head and the battle lines drawn .

The consequences of strike action outside of new government legislation aren't known as yet but with the stakes as high as this you can be pretty sure under a Tory government with a PM who thinks she's the resurrection of Thatcher that they could well be severe .

Seizing of union funds , possible court appearances for Trade Union leaders , selective sackings  of trade union members .

This despite this country currently having the most restrictive Trade Unions laws in Europe .

This government is in a tailspin with events escalating that they cannot control or even have the will plus a new PM hell bent on proving her Thatcher credentials to the 30% .

I'm not certain how this will play out in all honesty , it could be the touch paper for some serious civil disorder the likes this country hasn't seen since 1990 which could potentially bring the Tory government down .

On the other hand the Unions , people movements and demonstrations could well be crushed , I never underestimate the depths to which a Tory government will go in these situations , I have the T shirt .

None the less this is defiantly coming to a head and I'm predicting October if things go as they seem to be going .

Something will have to give .

[scawsby steve]

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

[tyke1962]

#Invalid YouTube Link#

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

To be honest Steve what the Labour Party does or doesn't do isn't something I personally focus on anymore .

To me the Labour Party are irrelevant in this instance , the coat holders in a bar room







I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

Twas ever thus Steve .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-inflation-hit-18-early-2023-citi-forecasts-2022-08-22/

Just saying.

Plus, because heating and food are the costs going up the highest, and because poorer people pay a larger amount of their income for those things, inflation for the poorest workers, or even moderately paid ones will be way higher than this.

[tommy toes]

This is a really frightening prospect for millions BST. Many working families have no chance of getting through this without serious support.

The need for the food support service I volunteer for is already spiralling week on week.

[tyke1962]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

Well let me put it to you another way , 7% isn't a pay offer its a pay cut so let's get that one sorted straight away .

The other thing to consider is that the public as you alluded to are also the ones about to enter more going out than coming in territory .

Your trying to paint a picture here of people who aren't taking industrial action are somehow excluded from what's about to be unleashed on them .

The truth is the people who are taking industrial action are in the same position as those who aren't or vice versa .

As I said the Tory government have one bullet left in the gun in my opinion and that's through new anti union legislation .

The usual tried and trusted Tory methods aren't going to work .

You'd better hope the one remaining bullet finds its target Pud .

If it doesn't .........anything could go down .

[Filo]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

The short answer is yes, especially when pay doesn’t keep pace with inflation

[wilts rover]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

When they know that pay for CEO has gone up by 39%. Yes really.

[drfchound]

Perhaps needy pensioners should get an additional payment to top up their funds to get them through the winter too.
After all, they didn’t get anything like 7% in April.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

How much do you think your pay needs to increase to keep in touch with the cost of living?

That'll be what a lot of people will be thinking to themselves as well.

[SydneyRover]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

The unions are part of the public pud, the rest of the public are pretty much getting the rough end of the pineapple don't you think? do you think it is immoral that CEO's get 39% rises while people have to make a choice between eating and heating, really? When winter arrives many will not be able to afford either.

[SydneyRover]

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

''Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'' is a good place to start Steve

[tyke1962]

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

''Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'' is a good place to start Steve

Or simply emigrate .

 

[SydneyRover]

Did I miss an answer about you supporting the tories by not voting more than you've voted for labour tyke?

[scawsby steve]

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

''Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'' is a good place to start Steve

I already have done. I've declared my support for Mick Lynch and the RMT, and any Unions that decide to go on strike.

Will Keith do the same?

[tyke1962]

Did I miss an answer about you supporting the tories by not voting more than you've voted for labour tyke?

If it isn't in The Guardian Syd I suspect you miss many things .

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Do we really think the public supports unions turning down 7% pay offers? Really?

The unions are part of the public pud, the rest of the public are pretty much getting the rough end of the pineapple don't you think? do you think it is immoral that CEO's get 39% rises while people have to make a choice between eating and heating, really? When winter arrives many will not be able to afford either.

Yes I do, no justification for it at all.

[tyke1962]

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

''Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'' is a good place to start Steve

There you go Syd , your opportunity to stand up and be counted and do something about what you believe in most .

Rejoin The EU March & Rally Saturday 10th September starting from Hyde Park .

However if you are expecting to see anyone from the Labour Party speaking unfortunately you'll be disappointed .

Maybe Keith's banned it .

Think not of what Europe can do for you but what you can do for Europe .

Fly Qantas maybe   


https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/national-rejoin-march-tickets-396717281067?utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&utm-medium=discovery&utm-term=listing&utm-source=cp&aff=escb

[SydneyRover]

It will be interesting to see if Keith comes out in support of the Unions and the People's Movements.

I've thought for a long time that the working class of this country has no-one speaking on their behalf, apart from people like Mick Lynch.

''Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'' is a good place to start Steve

I already have done. I've declared my support for Mick Lynch and the RMT, and any Unions that decide to go on strike.

Will Keith do the same?

Com' on Steve get real, you've been on strike for decades

[SydneyRover]

Did I miss an answer about you supporting the tories by not voting more than you've voted for labour tyke?

If it isn't in The Guardian Syd I suspect you miss many things .

A squib then tyke, am I right or am I right?