How much has Johnson cost the country

[phil old leake]

Wilts BJ wasn’t responsible for Brexit he just took it on so at least 73 billion of your assumptions are null and void if it wasn’t him it would have been someone else
I assume you think Starmer could have done it for about a tenner

[Colemans Left Hook]

What was war Stock?
"War stock" were bonds issued by the Government to help fund wartime efforts and pay for reparations after the war. They paid different levels of income, depending on the bond you bought.27 Feb 2018

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/31/uk-first-world-war-bonds-redeemed

i may be your granny but don't teach me to suck eggs

[Filo]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

[BigH]

The Financial Crash unregulated under a Labour government cost the UK £500bn .

Where on earth do you get numbers like this Tyke? Please tell me it wasn’t Wiki or the Express.

£500bn is bo11ox. Try this link for a more informed view:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05748/

[Glyn_Wigley]

What was war Stock?
"War stock" were bonds issued by the Government to help fund wartime efforts and pay for reparations after the war. They paid different levels of income, depending on the bond you bought.27 Feb 2018

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/31/uk-first-world-war-bonds-redeemed

i may be your granny but don't teach me to suck eggs

That's not the part you got utterly wrong. This is:

Meaning if you lent the government £1_they would pay you 2.5% for ever ...unless you sold the certificate they issued to you .. On the market post war

The government can buy them back from you at any time whether you want to sell them back or not. Even the link you post yourself tells you that! Get sucking them eggs.

[Colemans Left Hook]

imagine a very rich person bought £100 of war loan 3.5% at par in say 1917

that piece of paper (lets call it) would guarantee him a 3.5% return on that £100

if he was still (or descendants) holding it in 1974 when interest rates were around say 10%

the government were never going to give him his FULL £100 back ( redeem) so he could invest it and get that 10% -- 

the trade in value of that "piece of paper" he purchase as you can see was around 26 pence in the pound in 1974 due to the high interest rates - meaning over the years he would have lost 74% of his money

there was once a lobby to give the original purchasers (well their loyal descendants) the full £100 when the "stock " was well out of the money ... but it fell on stony ground   -- google knows nothing about this


and here is your homework

https://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap65b_rh.pdf

[Glyn_Wigley]

You keep repeating stuff I don't disagree with and ignoring what you said that was wrong and that even your own link proved was wrong.. Must try harder.

[wilts rover]

Wilts BJ wasn’t responsible for Brexit he just took it on so at least 73 billion of your assumptions are null and void if it wasn’t him it would have been someone else
I assume you think Starmer could have done it for about a tenner

Wow!! History already being re-written on the Johnson government before he has even left it.

He ran an Election Campaign on the slogan 'Get Brexit Done'. He is even now saying one of his main achivemens=ts was that it was him, and him alone, 'that got Brexit done'.

He agreed the Brexit Divorce Bill. He agreed the terms of the WA. It's his Brexit deal. All of the financial misjudgments now coming out and costing the country are down to him.

Dont blame me for him lying to you.

[wilts rover]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

No I would disagree with this, Tyke is more an anarchist than a Tory. If he can't get what he want's then he would rather blow everything up than leave it to run in a way he doesn't like. However secure it is/was. That's what Brexit was to a good percentage of people.

Just read this that I agree with:

A great weight of modern liberal Western delusion rests upon the framing of ‘events’ like Brexit, Trump, Johnson, et al, as in some vague way unwarranted, unforeseeable, bolts from the blue, rather than as inescapable consequences of decisions made in pursuit of other goals.

Boris Johnson is not an anomaly. He is arguably the greatest living manifestation of a boorish bantzy idea of Britishness arising more than 20 years ago and let thrive because it seemed to be a laugh.

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1551129346424930305

[tyke1962]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

No I would disagree with this, Tyke is more an anarchist than a Tory. If he can't get what he want's then he would rather blow everything up than leave it to run in a way he doesn't like. However secure it is/was. That's what Brexit was to a good percentage of people.

Just read this that I agree with:

A great weight of modern liberal Western delusion rests upon the framing of ‘events’ like Brexit, Trump, Johnson, et al, as in some vague way unwarranted, unforeseeable, bolts from the blue, rather than as inescapable consequences of decisions made in pursuit of other goals.

Boris Johnson is not an anomaly. He is arguably the greatest living manifestation of a boorish bantzy idea of Britishness arising more than 20 years ago and let thrive because it seemed to be a laugh.

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1551129346424930305

That's a remarkable claim given absolutely nobody gets everything they want and something I've known the majority of my working life .

I'd have compromised in 84/85 for instance and I spent the majority of my time as union rep compromising to keep companies profitable as well as representing the members .

I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .

Or indeed people like Mandelson who have come back from the dead and are on the record as " spending every single day undermining the last Labour leadership " .

With the party back in control of the centre and right anybody not jumping in to line is to be vindicated as a Tory enabler , a trouble maker and a stain on the party .

You don't want us , that's perfectly fine and you have your own ideas how to best win the next election .

However you'll do it without my funding and you'll do it without my vote unless things change drastically over the next two years .

If this is the travel of direction then fine but you'll own the fecker as far as I'm concerned .

[wilts rover]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

No I would disagree with this, Tyke is more an anarchist than a Tory. If he can't get what he want's then he would rather blow everything up than leave it to run in a way he doesn't like. However secure it is/was. That's what Brexit was to a good percentage of people.

Just read this that I agree with:

A great weight of modern liberal Western delusion rests upon the framing of ‘events’ like Brexit, Trump, Johnson, et al, as in some vague way unwarranted, unforeseeable, bolts from the blue, rather than as inescapable consequences of decisions made in pursuit of other goals.

Boris Johnson is not an anomaly. He is arguably the greatest living manifestation of a boorish bantzy idea of Britishness arising more than 20 years ago and let thrive because it seemed to be a laugh.

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1551129346424930305

That's a remarkable claim given absolutely nobody gets everything they want and something I've known the majority of my working life .

I'd have compromised in 84/85 for instance and I spent the majority of my time as union rep compromising to keep companies profitable as well as representing the members .

I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .

Or indeed people like Mandelson who have come back from the dead and are on the record as " spending every single day undermining the last Labour leadership " .

With the party back in control of the centre and right anybody not jumping in to line is to be vindicated as a Tory enabler , a trouble maker and a stain on the party .

You don't want us , that's perfectly fine and you have your own ideas how to best win the next election .

However you'll do it without my funding and you'll do it without my vote unless things change drastically over the next two years .

If this is the travel of direction then fine but you'll own the fecker as far as I'm concerned .

Nothing to do with me. I am making observations from the outside.

I have said several times that I dont think Starmer is a very efficent leader and dont like his policies or policy direction. But not liking something and attacking people because you dont like them are very different things.

You appear now to be attempting to undermine the current Labour leadership - a policy you critise other people for! Either its a good thing to do - or not.

[SydneyRover]

tyke, I'm surprised at you as a brexiter in chief from 1979 and then corbyn won't support you, did he let you down gently?

[tyke1962]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

No I would disagree with this, Tyke is more an anarchist than a Tory. If he can't get what he want's then he would rather blow everything up than leave it to run in a way he doesn't like. However secure it is/was. That's what Brexit was to a good percentage of people.

Just read this that I agree with:

A great weight of modern liberal Western delusion rests upon the framing of ‘events’ like Brexit, Trump, Johnson, et al, as in some vague way unwarranted, unforeseeable, bolts from the blue, rather than as inescapable consequences of decisions made in pursuit of other goals.

Boris Johnson is not an anomaly. He is arguably the greatest living manifestation of a boorish bantzy idea of Britishness arising more than 20 years ago and let thrive because it seemed to be a laugh.

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1551129346424930305

That's a remarkable claim given absolutely nobody gets everything they want and something I've known the majority of my working life .

I'd have compromised in 84/85 for instance and I spent the majority of my time as union rep compromising to keep companies profitable as well as representing the members .

I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .

Or indeed people like Mandelson who have come back from the dead and are on the record as " spending every single day undermining the last Labour leadership " .

With the party back in control of the centre and right anybody not jumping in to line is to be vindicated as a Tory enabler , a trouble maker and a stain on the party .

You don't want us , that's perfectly fine and you have your own ideas how to best win the next election .

However you'll do it without my funding and you'll do it without my vote unless things change drastically over the next two years .

If this is the travel of direction then fine but you'll own the fecker as far as I'm concerned .

Nothing to do with me. I am making observations from the outside.

I have said several times that I dont think Starmer is a very efficent leader and dont like his policies or policy direction. But not liking something and attacking people because you dont like them are very different things.

You appear now to be attempting to undermine the current Labour leadership - a policy you critise other people for! Either its a good thing to do - or not.

It seems to me that unless you treat the Labour Party as a sacred cow the attacks come thick and fast .

Holding certain views and members of groups will get you expelled from the Party .

It's clearly not the broad church it claims to be , it's currently anything but .

There's only one section of the party who are doing the attacking so if the rocks get thrown back with a bit of vengeance then it's perfectly understandable .

[SydneyRover]

I guess most of those you are debating with would have held their nose and voted labour despite their misgivings, I guess you don't see the future that way.

[tyke1962]

tyke, I'm surprised at you as a brexiter in chief from 1979 and then corbyn won't support you, did he let you down gently?

It was pretty obvious what was coming in 2019 .

Labour had an ambiguous position and trying to reconcile the middle class metropolitan remain contingent whilst keeping the Red Wall onside was an almost impossible task .

However what I will say is this , there's a good number of young Tory MP's who won Red Wall seats currently working extremely hard to get the money in to their constituencies and bring some prosperity to these towns .

Now they may be successful and they probably may not be but I'll say one thing at least they aren't taking their voters for granted which at least is one step ahead of the current brand of the Labour Party since 1997 .

[SydneyRover]

From 'however' ...................... absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing of course, but that's you to a 'T', T for tyke.

[tyke1962]

I guess most of those you are debating with would have held their nose and voted labour despite their misgivings, I guess you don't see the future that way.

Quite right I don't , I don't see anything from the Labour Party what so ever that convinces me they are going to be successful in government .

[SydneyRover]

I guess most of those you are debating with would have held their nose and voted labour despite their misgivings, I guess you don't see the future that way.

Quite right I don't , I don't see anything from the Labour Party what so ever that convinces me they are going to be successful in government .

You must have the 'touch' tyke

[SydneyRover]

''It was pretty obvious what was coming in 2019''

Can't find any of your predictions in the back catalogue tyke

[Hounslowrover]

“I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .”
Tyke you wrote this and believe it? 

[Glyn_Wigley]

“I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .”
Tyke you wrote this and believe it? 

Yes, it was nothing to do with the British electorate not wanting him in No.10 at all!! In fact, Corbyn was exactly who they wanted all along!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.
I've asked you before what sort of Left wing Govt you imagine being able to get. Given that people with your views to up to perhaps 20% of the voters.

I don't get what you expect to be achievable.

[tyke1962]

“I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .”
Tyke you wrote this and believe it?

Take a butchers at the Forde Report and then get back to me Hounslow .

[tyke1962]

“I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .”
Tyke you wrote this and believe it? 

Yes, it was nothing to do with the British electorate not wanting him in No.10 at all!! In fact, Corbyn was exactly who they wanted all along!

The UK electorate didn't want Corbyn your quite right and I'm not going to argue with that .

The UK electorate didn't want Brown or Miliband either under New Labour .

However consider this .....

Tony Blair 2005 - 9.5m votes

Gordon Brown 2010 - 8.6m

Ed Miliband 2015 - 9.3m

Jeremy Corbyn 2017 - 12.8m

Jeremy Corbyn 2019 - 10.2m

All losses granted but none the less the electorate wants more social democracy than it wants the direction Keith is taking the party .

[tyke1962]

Tyke.
I've asked you before what sort of Left wing Govt you imagine being able to get. Given that people with your views to up to perhaps 20% of the voters.

I don't get what you expect to be achievable.

I don't get what you expect to achieve either Billy to be honest .

Maybe supporting the man with a red rosette on somehow eases your conscience despite the fact the party are clients of the ruling classes and the establishment in the same way the Tories are .

I can almost guarantee you won't change much if you gain power and anything you do won't make much difference .

[wilts rover]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

No I would disagree with this, Tyke is more an anarchist than a Tory. If he can't get what he want's then he would rather blow everything up than leave it to run in a way he doesn't like. However secure it is/was. That's what Brexit was to a good percentage of people.

Just read this that I agree with:

A great weight of modern liberal Western delusion rests upon the framing of ‘events’ like Brexit, Trump, Johnson, et al, as in some vague way unwarranted, unforeseeable, bolts from the blue, rather than as inescapable consequences of decisions made in pursuit of other goals.

Boris Johnson is not an anomaly. He is arguably the greatest living manifestation of a boorish bantzy idea of Britishness arising more than 20 years ago and let thrive because it seemed to be a laugh.

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1551129346424930305

That's a remarkable claim given absolutely nobody gets everything they want and something I've known the majority of my working life .

I'd have compromised in 84/85 for instance and I spent the majority of my time as union rep compromising to keep companies profitable as well as representing the members .

I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .

Or indeed people like Mandelson who have come back from the dead and are on the record as " spending every single day undermining the last Labour leadership " .

With the party back in control of the centre and right anybody not jumping in to line is to be vindicated as a Tory enabler , a trouble maker and a stain on the party .

You don't want us , that's perfectly fine and you have your own ideas how to best win the next election .

However you'll do it without my funding and you'll do it without my vote unless things change drastically over the next two years .

If this is the travel of direction then fine but you'll own the fecker as far as I'm concerned .

Nothing to do with me. I am making observations from the outside.

I have said several times that I dont think Starmer is a very efficent leader and dont like his policies or policy direction. But not liking something and attacking people because you dont like them are very different things.

You appear now to be attempting to undermine the current Labour leadership - a policy you critise other people for! Either its a good thing to do - or not.

It seems to me that unless you treat the Labour Party as a sacred cow the attacks come thick and fast .

Holding certain views and members of groups will get you expelled from the Party .

It's clearly not the broad church it claims to be , it's currently anything but .

There's only one section of the party who are doing the attacking so if the rocks get thrown back with a bit of vengeance then it's perfectly understandable .

If you are refering to me - which 'section' of the Labour Party do I belong to then? I am not a member of it and only ever was for a short time. TU steward and member for a lot longer.

You brought up the Labour Party, I didn't.

I have given my opinion on Starmer above. If you can't be bothered to read it - that's your problem. If you can be bothered to read it and think I am a 'section' that supports him - thats also your problem.

As I said above, you are an anarchist - you just want to blow things up if you can't have your own way. You are not a Tory - but you are doing their wok for them.

[tyke1962]

''Almost everything today is a tentacle of the financial crash under New Labour''

''Alternatively you could counter my comments and come back to me with some credible facts .''

For me to do that tyke you would need to explain, in English preferably exactly what you want and answer just a few of the balmy posts you yourself have put up about your thinking and when it happened, there are more changes to than a Mordaunt wiki page

Yet your present leader resembles a weathervane  but you support him anyway .

I said from the early days of your appearance on this forum, you were a closet Tory, your last few comments have shown that

No I would disagree with this, Tyke is more an anarchist than a Tory. If he can't get what he want's then he would rather blow everything up than leave it to run in a way he doesn't like. However secure it is/was. That's what Brexit was to a good percentage of people.

Just read this that I agree with:

A great weight of modern liberal Western delusion rests upon the framing of ‘events’ like Brexit, Trump, Johnson, et al, as in some vague way unwarranted, unforeseeable, bolts from the blue, rather than as inescapable consequences of decisions made in pursuit of other goals.

Boris Johnson is not an anomaly. He is arguably the greatest living manifestation of a boorish bantzy idea of Britishness arising more than 20 years ago and let thrive because it seemed to be a laugh.

https://twitter.com/barneyfarmer/status/1551129346424930305

That's a remarkable claim given absolutely nobody gets everything they want and something I've known the majority of my working life .

I'd have compromised in 84/85 for instance and I spent the majority of my time as union rep compromising to keep companies profitable as well as representing the members .

I'll take no lessons off the centre and the right of the Labour Party who plotted against the last leader to keep him out of number 10 .

Or indeed people like Mandelson who have come back from the dead and are on the record as " spending every single day undermining the last Labour leadership " .

With the party back in control of the centre and right anybody not jumping in to line is to be vindicated as a Tory enabler , a trouble maker and a stain on the party .

You don't want us , that's perfectly fine and you have your own ideas how to best win the next election .

However you'll do it without my funding and you'll do it without my vote unless things change drastically over the next two years .

If this is the travel of direction then fine but you'll own the fecker as far as I'm concerned .

Nothing to do with me. I am making observations from the outside.

I have said several times that I dont think Starmer is a very efficent leader and dont like his policies or policy direction. But not liking something and attacking people because you dont like them are very different things.

You appear now to be attempting to undermine the current Labour leadership - a policy you critise other people for! Either its a good thing to do - or not.

It seems to me that unless you treat the Labour Party as a sacred cow the attacks come thick and fast .

Holding certain views and members of groups will get you expelled from the Party .

It's clearly not the broad church it claims to be , it's currently anything but .

There's only one section of the party who are doing the attacking so if the rocks get thrown back with a bit of vengeance then it's perfectly understandable .

If you are refering to me - which 'section' of the Labour Party do I belong to then? I am not a member of it and only ever was for a short time. TU steward and member for a lot longer.

You brought up the Labour Party, I didn't.

I have given my opinion on Starmer above. If you can't be bothered to read it - that's your problem. If you can be bothered to read it and think I am a 'section' that supports him - thats also your problem.

As I said above, you are an anarchist - you just want to blow things up if you can't have your own way. You are not a Tory - but you are doing their wok for them.

Would you class Mick Lynch as an anarchist ?

That's my idea of a Labour Party and not the dogs dinner it is right now .

I share this man's views and have most of my life .

https://youtu.be/nbmQQ13UrMw

[SydneyRover]

In what way is Mick Lynch an anarchist? How are you supporting Mick Lynch, are you in the same union, did you go to support the workers that had been sacked and how? what are you doing to get the government you want in power?

Hint: it's not by allowing a tory government in.

(Wasn't Andy Burnham yours and Steve's hero last year till bst popped your bubble?)

[SydneyRover]

''Government winds back Australian Building and Construction Commission's powers to 'bare legal minimum'''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-24/government-winds-back-construction-watchdog-s-powers/101264794

This commission was set up purely as a way to hinder and thwart the construction union in any way possible and continually throw red meat to the far right, one of the first acts of the new government (which I didn't vote for) was to virtually abolish it.

Those that understand how successive government works know that nothing lasts forever and power shuffles to the left or right according to the government of the day. By not supporting the right the Lib/nat lost power, many MPs and thus are unable to do anything substantive. Labour hopes to win the following election too where it can strengthen it's mandate to move further to the left.

tyke, do you get this in any way whatsoever?

Riddle me this tyke: how many times did corbyn defy the whip while labour was in power?

Put number here ( x )

Nar then, why wud any person true to his own sen when he hissen were a rebel, be upset wi others rebelling agin him? How many times, remind me ( x )?

[SydneyRover]

And the country and many in it are still paying out, he's like the monster you just can't kill ......

''Met admits not sending Boris Johnson questionnaires over Partygate gatherings''

''The Good Law Project (GLP), a non-profit campaign group that has brought a judicial review over accusations that the Met failed to fully investigate Johnson’s presence at parties, said: “The Met’s actions have raised grave concerns about the deferential way in which they are policing those in power.

“We don’t think the Met’s response is consistent with their legal duty of candour. And we certainly don’t think it’s consistent with what the Met has elsewhere conceded is their public duty to maintain public confidence in policing.”''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/25/met-finally-admits-not-sending-boris-johnson-questionnaires-over-partygate-gatherings

Why would you stick your neck out for someone that wouldn't pay you a second glance if you needed help, this poor excuse for a human being has no morals and surrounds himself with either like minded people or draws them into his corrupt mind set.