Patel tells Police to get back to basics

[Sprotyrover]

Patel has told Chief Constables to get back to basics, no more Woke, Nik bending of the knee no wearing of Pride badges, no Macarena Dancing, no going mob handed to pride events and sticking yer groin in another man’s bottom and gyrating. The Public don’t want to see that they want police officers wearing the uniform properly and protecting and serving the public none of the above installs Public confidence and respect for the Police and wearing pride badges and the like only indicates a partisan approach and indicates Certain groups are deal with in a more lenient and Woke manner! Nice to see she will sack Chief Officers who don’t comply or are under achieving.

[Sprotyrover]

It’s gonna be like trying to stop a Million ton Oil tanker! Most of the 16,000 uplift recruits are from the luvie society we have created, if you don’t believe me go up to the next fresh faces cop you see, stick yer face against theirs and tell em to go forth! 20 years ago you would have had a night in a police cell, nowadays they will mostly break down in tears and run for it!wringing their hands in despair when in fact they should be be wringing yer neck!

[SydneyRover]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

[normal rules]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

Imagine cops turning up to an EDL March waving St George flags?
Or an Antifa demo carrying a hope not hate banner?
Or policing a football match of a team you happen to support and donning a scarf and singing along with the crowd during songs.
Cops should be un biased.
You can support and understand the communities you police just by being there and engaging with people. There is no need to get involved. Without fear or favour.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Getting the police back to basics should mean employing enough of them to do the job.

[SydneyRover]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

Imagine cops turning up to an EDL March waving St George flags?
Or an Antifa demo carrying a hope not hate banner?
Or policing a football match of a team you happen to support and donning a scarf and singing along with the crowd during songs.
Cops should be un biased.
You can support and understand the communities you police just by being there and engaging with people. There is no need to get involved. Without fear or favour.

Did anyone say differently NR? if police join in with a parade or other I would assume they have been asked to be there or it has been sanctioned. They are already within the community and that should be reflected with the numbers within the ranks of lgbtqi and other minority groups. Without fear or favour. There would be many alreadt but as in within sport they may not wish to advertise the fact. As sprot suggested, more coppers on the beat to increase community policing.

[Sprotyrover]

That’s a very good point Glyn, the new recruits are getting their degrees and resigning with a “thanks very much For the degree qualification and no debt!” More worrying is seasoned high trained and effective officers leaving because there is no longer the hold of a good pension to look forward to, so why stay and have all the hassle, saw an article on FB from this years Pol fed conference where a Detective Constable single mom told Patel a Financial advisor told her she would be better off resigning and working 22 hours per week and claiming benefits!

[Panda]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

Police aren't in existence to reflect or understand the society in which they live. They are there to remain impartial and uphold the law. That's it. That is what they get paid to do, what i expect them to do and nothing more or nothing less.

Whether they support trans rights for example is not relevant and something which the general public do not need to know nor should care about but sadly the police think differently these days which is where the problems have started.

Obviously they should remain fair to all sections of society and be educated about them and not be discriminatory but outward displays of involvement and engagement with certain political ideologies and minority groups should not be happening.

[normal rules]

Recruiting more cops is easier said than done.
Lincolnshire police for example, now only recruit new constables who have a degree.
What that effectively means is that ex military and many others won’t be eligible to join. Over recent decades ex military have contributed to very substantial numbers within the police ranks.

[Panda]

Thing is, if you have a degree these days it is likely that you have been repeatedly exposed to the woke indoctrination / brainwashing that universities push.

Police have lost all dignity and respect from me certainly and sadly i view each one with suspicion as either being a potential rapist with misogynist views or someone with zero common sense and no backbone to speak out against this wokery when they are asked to go along with it.

Obviously they aren't all like that but enough to make modern policing an unviable employment option for anybody who expects to be given trust from some of the general public.

I also do feel sorry for some of them though. There is pretty much no point in solving crime these days and bringing perpetrators to book as we have such an embarrassingly pathetic justice system. It is almost pointless now arresting criminals.

Sadly though, i don't trust anybody anymore who works for the police. Thousands of kids and young girls were systematically sexually abused across the UK by grooming gangs that were allowed to get away with it because police from many different forces decided not to do anything incase highlighting the ethnicity of the gangs doing this despicable crime upset anyone. That's where we're at.

Not one policeman/woman in one force but all policeman/women in a multitude of forces. No backbone to speak out. Institutionalised wokery that destroyed kids lives. If my kid decides to marry a copper when she's older, i'll be the first to show my disapproval.

As for Priti Patel. She's been in office now for a while and done nothing about the state of policing. Just as she's done nothing about migrant crossings. She's a bag of hot air. All talk and no action. Sums up the Tories.

[Panda]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

Imagine cops turning up to an EDL March waving St George flags?
Or an Antifa demo carrying a hope not hate banner?
Or policing a football match of a team you happen to support and donning a scarf and singing along with the crowd during songs.
Cops should be un biased.
You can support and understand the communities you police just by being there and engaging with people. There is no need to get involved. Without fear or favour.

Did anyone say differently NR? if police join in with a parade or other I would assume they have been asked to be there or it has been sanctioned. They are already within the community and that should be reflected with the numbers within the ranks of lgbtqi and other minority groups. Without fear or favour. There would be many alreadt but as in within sport they may not wish to advertise the fact. As sprot suggested, more coppers on the beat to increase community policing.

Yes, they will have been asked, or told to join in with the parades. That doesn't mean that they have to or have to go along with it without kicking up a fuss to their seniors if they disagree. By going along with it without resistance they become part of the issue. No principles.

[phil old leake]

Glyn you are absolutely correct.  Recruit more to do the job properly
Don’t recruit on ethnicity or religion or background or sex or colour or sexual orientation.  Recruit the the most suitable and best performing at selection. Encourage people of all backgrounds to apply and stamp down heavily on those that create disharmony and behave incorrectly.
It’s also about time that senior officers grow some bxxxxxks and supported their staff instead of immediately apologising making assumptions that officers have behaved incorrect when allegations are thrown out against them.  Very often maliciously or as an attempt to deflect from the offenders behaviour

Syd your comments “ Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?”  so you’re advocating police officers behaving like we have seen this week are behaving professionally   I bet the families of those seriously assaulted and murdered at these events are  grateful that the local police can dance and twerk

Normal you’re also right.  It’s ok to wear badges of support or show support in some physical way if it suits the agenda of the day.  Police officers are supposed to be seen as independent. 


All this you can’t be a police officer without a degree is utter sxxte.  Having a degree doesn’t give you an understanding of life it means you are supposedly educated.  That doesn’t give you experience of life or an ability to communicate. You need police officers with experience of life who have had to deal with difficulties and understand how life works

[normal rules]

I can assure you, no cop, as part of any deployment plan, will ever be told to do the Macarena.

[normal rules]

I’m retired now, although still work for the local police as a civvy.
I went to a recent presentation around domestic abuse. Sat around the table were about 20 of us. Including about 8 fresh cops who between them had about 16 yrs service. All of them post grads.
A real life video was shown of cops attending an address where there had been an incident of domestic violence. The couple were in there lates 60’s. The cops had been there before. The woman, bless her, had been battered and her face looked like a purple cauliflower. She had horrendous facial injuries. The two cops dilly dallied around the whole thing before, after some time, probably 20 minutes, decided that they had better arrest the male partner . This was after one of the officers took the woman into the front garden to talk about the incident, in inclement weather, at night leaving her partner inside to cajole the other officer about what hadn’t happened.
After the video we debriefed it. I was shocked how long it took the officers to make their decision around arresting the bloke and getting him out of there. And I made this point clear in open forum. But what shocked me the most was the opinion of the new cops, whose overwhelming concern was that if the male in his sixties resisted arrest then their actions may have resulted in the injury of the man and a subsequent complaint. This is despite the fact he had clearly subjected his partner to some pretty horrendous violence. That is what is being pumped into new recruits these days. Probably in part due to the hammering the police get at every opportunity via the media. Action and reaction. Cops these days are more concerned about being complained against than doing the right thing at the right time.
It’s no wonder cops think it’s ok to twerk at a gay pride event. They probably thought they would get complained about for not joining in and being branded homophobic.
This is the state of policing in the 21st c. And it will get worse.

[SydneyRover]

I can assure you, no cop, as part of any deployment plan, will ever be told to do the Macarena.

This

[SydneyRover]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

Imagine cops turning up to an EDL March waving St George flags?
Or an Antifa demo carrying a hope not hate banner?
Or policing a football match of a team you happen to support and donning a scarf and singing along with the crowd during songs.
Cops should be un biased.
You can support and understand the communities you police just by being there and engaging with people. There is no need to get involved. Without fear or favour.

Did anyone say differently NR? if police join in with a parade or other I would assume they have been asked to be there or it has been sanctioned. They are already within the community and that should be reflected with the numbers within the ranks of lgbtqi and other minority groups. Without fear or favour. There would be many alreadt but as in within sport they may not wish to advertise the fact. As sprot suggested, more coppers on the beat to increase community policing.

Yes, they will have been asked, or told to join in with the parades. That doesn't mean that they have to or have to go along with it without kicking up a fuss to their seniors if they disagree. By going along with it without resistance they become part of the issue. No principles.

Apologies, it should read they have asked to be there

[SydneyRover]

Glyn you are absolutely correct.  Recruit more to do the job properly
Don’t recruit on ethnicity or religion or background or sex or colour or sexual orientation.  Recruit the the most suitable and best performing at selection. Encourage people of all backgrounds to apply and stamp down heavily on those that create disharmony and behave incorrectly.
It’s also about time that senior officers grow some bxxxxxks and supported their staff instead of immediately apologising making assumptions that officers have behaved incorrect when allegations are thrown out against them.  Very often maliciously or as an attempt to deflect from the offenders behaviour

Syd your comments “ Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?”  so you’re advocating police officers behaving like we have seen this week are behaving professionally   I bet the families of those seriously assaulted and murdered at these events are  grateful that the local police can dance and twerk

Normal you’re also right.  It’s ok to wear badges of support or show support in some physical way if it suits the agenda of the day.  Police officers are supposed to be seen as independent. 


All this you can’t be a police officer without a degree is utter sxxte.  Having a degree doesn’t give you an understanding of life it means you are supposedly educated.  That doesn’t give you experience of life or an ability to communicate. You need police officers with experience of life who have had to deal with difficulties and understand how life works

I think you are dancing and twerking around what I wrote phil

[Bristol Red Rover]

Media and government b*llocks is this. The issue with the police is not the "woke", its the childlike idiots who still get employed. Priti is one class example right at the very top of the tree.

I'm living with someone who has joined recently, passed out, currently working with trainers. From his experience, admittedly local, I can assure you there is no "woke" shift though there are some good people there.

However, there are also a number of 1970s style idiots in there both as recruits and established officers. One guy been in about 7 years was training the guy I know. Speeding through 30 mph areas at 80, no blue light call. It's what he normally does, no one off. And at the same time texting. A trainee picked up a woman on tinder who his mate had recently been dealing with on a domestic abuse case. He knew this but still proceeded to get drunk with her and sleep with her - case screwed up.

Hooefully these two will be booted out but they are desperate to increase numbers. Other recruits my friend was with varied in quality, but overall its not sounding good. The better ones will hopefully help make the changes.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I’m retired now, although still work for the local police as a civvy.
I went to a recent presentation around domestic abuse. Sat around the table were about 20 of us. Including about 8 fresh cops who between them had about 16 yrs service. All of them post grads.
A real life video was shown of cops attending an address where there had been an incident of domestic violence. The couple were in there lates 60’s. The cops had been there before. The woman, bless her, had been battered and her face looked like a purple cauliflower. She had horrendous facial injuries. The two cops dilly dallied around the whole thing before, after some time, probably 20 minutes, decided that they had better arrest the male partner . This was after one of the officers took the woman into the front garden to talk about the incident, in inclement weather, at night leaving her partner inside to cajole the other officer about what hadn’t happened.
After the video we debriefed it. I was shocked how long it took the officers to make their decision around arresting the bloke and getting him out of there. And I made this point clear in open forum. But what shocked me the most was the opinion of the new cops, whose overwhelming concern was that if the male in his sixties resisted arrest then their actions may have resulted in the injury of the man and a subsequent complaint. This is despite the fact he had clearly subjected his partner to some pretty horrendous violence. That is what is being pumped into new recruits these days. Probably in part due to the hammering the police get at every opportunity via the media. Action and reaction. Cops these days are more concerned about being complained against than doing the right thing at the right time.
It’s no wonder cops think it’s ok to twerk at a gay pride event. They probably thought they would get complained about for not joining in and being branded homophobic.
This is the state of policing in the 21st c. And it will get worse.

Isn't a lot of the reticence you observed to do with reality and ensuring there aren't ways the perpetrator could get off, and to minimise paperwork later in the case? Taking their time to decide is a good thing in a learning situation, I'd think. And for real life, time taken at the arrest stage can help save time, and help cases get positively prosecuted later.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yep, can't possibly have the police reflecting or understanding the society in which they live or operate sprot aye?

Police aren't in existence to reflect or understand the society in which they live. They are there to remain impartial and uphold the law. That's it. That is what they get paid to do, what i expect them to do and nothing more or nothing less.

Whether they support trans rights for example is not relevant and something which the general public do not need to know nor should care about but sadly the police think differently these days which is where the problems have started.

Obviously they should remain fair to all sections of society and be educated about them and not be discriminatory but outward displays of involvement and engagement with certain political ideologies and minority groups should not be happening.

You're talking about WHAT the police do. Syd's talking about HOW they do it.

[normal rules]

I’m retired now, although still work for the local police as a civvy.
I went to a recent presentation around domestic abuse. Sat around the table were about 20 of us. Including about 8 fresh cops who between them had about 16 yrs service. All of them post grads.
A real life video was shown of cops attending an address where there had been an incident of domestic violence. The couple were in there lates 60’s. The cops had been there before. The woman, bless her, had been battered and her face looked like a purple cauliflower. She had horrendous facial injuries. The two cops dilly dallied around the whole thing before, after some time, probably 20 minutes, decided that they had better arrest the male partner . This was after one of the officers took the woman into the front garden to talk about the incident, in inclement weather, at night leaving her partner inside to cajole the other officer about what hadn’t happened.
After the video we debriefed it. I was shocked how long it took the officers to make their decision around arresting the bloke and getting him out of there. And I made this point clear in open forum. But what shocked me the most was the opinion of the new cops, whose overwhelming concern was that if the male in his sixties resisted arrest then their actions may have resulted in the injury of the man and a subsequent complaint. This is despite the fact he had clearly subjected his partner to some pretty horrendous violence. That is what is being pumped into new recruits these days. Probably in part due to the hammering the police get at every opportunity via the media. Action and reaction. Cops these days are more concerned about being complained against than doing the right thing at the right time.
It’s no wonder cops think it’s ok to twerk at a gay pride event. They probably thought they would get complained about for not joining in and being branded homophobic.
This is the state of policing in the 21st c. And it will get worse.

Isn't a lot of the reticence you observed to do with reality and ensuring there aren't ways the perpetrator could get off, and to minimise paperwork later in the case? Taking their time to decide is a good thing in a learning situation, I'd think. And for real life, time taken at the arrest stage can help save time, and help cases get positively prosecuted later.

Not in my experience. And taking the victim out of her own house into what looked like a cold windy night to question her about the events whilst the perp was allowed to stay indoors confirmed my suspicions. The cops in the footage were unprofessional and did not treat the victim with any sort of empathy because they had been to the address before and dealt with it as “just another domestic”. You had to see it to believe it. The very obvious thing to do was remove him asap from the address creating a safe environment with which to speak to the victim to get her account of events. I would be lying if I suggested cops don’t pre empt how a case will pan out, especially if the victim is not supportive of a prosecution, but this incident was dealt with as badly as I have seen. With little obvious regard for the feelings and wellbeing of the victim. It was shocking.

[normal rules]

In fact, part of the footage is on YouTube if you care to watch it. I may add, this has been very heavily redacted by panorama and misses out huge chunks of the time the police were there. It also misses out most of the conversations that took place between the officers and the couple. You will see a short clip at around 8 minutes. This is the bit where one officer took her outside to talk to her. She then comes back in and the officers stand calmly by while he barks out instructions for her to get his things for him including medication. You can’t make it up. They allow her to be controlled in there presence. Like nothing had happened. It goes against everything we are told about dealing with domestic violence. Or at least it was. This violent man should have been locked up as soon as the officers saw her injuries. No question. No delay.
Just take a look at her face! Imagine thats your mum. Or grandmother.
I don’t know how one of those officers can come on tv and talk about that event. His response to it,was, in my opinion, utterly shocking. He may not have been so keen had they shown the whole footage.
I’ve had the displeasure of the whole footage from the bodyworn camera, unredacted.
 
https://youtu.be/Zu4rP9wureY

Like I say, this is just a clip of one incident of domestic violence. It is easy to criticise when you are not there in person. I’d know my response would have been hugely different having been there myself many times.
My real shock was with the attitude of fresh officers whose concerns I had to listen to following viewing that clip. Whose main concern was around having a complaint.

[SydneyRover]

Recruiting more cops is easier said than done.
Lincolnshire police for example, now only recruit new constables who have a degree.
What that effectively means is that ex military and many others won’t be eligible to join. Over recent decades ex military have contributed to very substantial numbers within the police ranks.

Why should the police force require substantial numbers of ex-military personnel unless the force/govt wants it to look like a quasi military force?

Having substantial numbers of personnel from any single area is a problem in itself and is not required for the vast numbers of situations.

People generally want their lives to be as normal as possible regardless of what the tabloid media try to portray and for most it is normal and the majority would never come into contact with the police for large parts of their lives.

Military training is not necessarily an advantage to investigate a burglary, domestic violence, rape, shoplifting, traffic offences or fraud and a whole host of other situations.

As the report that you found so contentious said, the force should be more reflective of the community it serves.

[scawsby steve]

Recruiting more cops is easier said than done.
Lincolnshire police for example, now only recruit new constables who have a degree.
What that effectively means is that ex military and many others won’t be eligible to join. Over recent decades ex military have contributed to very substantial numbers within the police ranks.

Why should the police force require substantial numbers of ex-military personnel unless the force/govt wants it to look like a quasi military force?

Having substantial numbers of personnel from any single area is a problem in itself and is not required for the vast numbers of situations.

People generally want their lives to be as normal as possible regardless of what the tabloid media try to portray and for most it is normal and the majority would never come into contact with the police for large parts of their lives.

Military training is not necessarily an advantage to investigate a burglary, domestic violence, rape, shoplifting, traffic offences or fraud and a whole host of other situations.

As the report that you found so contentious said, the force should be more reflective of the community it serves.

Sydney, what do you think of our new signing?

[phil old leake]

Syd I can assure you I would never be seen dancing and twerking anywhere near you

I agree with you Syd that being ex military isn’t good training for all the things you listed. It is however good training for acting like an adult, not allowing people to take the piss out of you ( like so many people did at these carnivals) so many people filming it hoping to get the officer in the sxxt.  They have also lived a bit and had experiences of things that aren’t always nice.  Recruitment should come from all walks of life. The way some on here are anti police they’ll be wanting to recruit ex cons  Another issue with modern day policing is weak management more concerned in not upsetting people because it’ll slow down their careers.  The street Bobby needs to be allowed to police and should expect support from bosses not feel intimidated by situations because of a fear of being criticised and dragged over the coals

[DonnyOsmond]

Cringeworthy watching grown men throw around the word woke, especially when they don't know what it means.

[normal rules]

Recruiting more cops is easier said than done.
Lincolnshire police for example, now only recruit new constables who have a degree.
What that effectively means is that ex military and many others won’t be eligible to join. Over recent decades ex military have contributed to very substantial numbers within the police ranks.

Why should the police force require substantial numbers of ex-military personnel unless the force/govt wants it to look like a quasi military force?

Having substantial numbers of personnel from any single area is a problem in itself and is not required for the vast numbers of situations.

People generally want their lives to be as normal as possible regardless of what the tabloid media try to portray and for most it is normal and the majority would never come into contact with the police for large parts of their lives.

Military training is not necessarily an advantage to investigate a burglary, domestic violence, rape, shoplifting, traffic offences or fraud and a whole host of other situations.

As the report that you found so contentious said, the force should be more reflective of the community it serves.


I did say “and others” .
I am biased of course. Having served 14 years in the army . I don’t think having a proportion of ex military transferring to be cops makes it a quasi military organisation ffs.
Military personnel have experience a slice of life. Arduous training. Peacekeeping experience. Resolving conflict. Winning hearts and minds. Working long hours. Shifts. Flexible approach to working hours. Disciplined. Uniformed. Resilient. Adapts to change. Improvise when needed. Overcomes difficulties. Defending yourself physically when the need arises. Showing restraint also when needed.
They still teach military foot drill at police training college. Why? Because it gels people together. Teamwork. Leadership. All the things ex military do second nature. I spent 14 years as a soldier and 22 years as a cop. I know what makes a good soldier and I believe I have a good grasp on what makes a good cop, and there are many, many transferable skills between the two.
Alternatively you can have a post grad who calls in sick because their cat has died. ( based on a real story)

[SydneyRover]

Syd I can assure you I would never be seen dancing and twerking anywhere near you

I agree with you Syd that being ex military isn’t good training for all the things you listed. It is however good training for acting like an adult, not allowing people to take the piss out of you ( like so many people did at these carnivals) so many people filming it hoping to get the officer in the sxxt.  They have also lived a bit and had experiences of things that aren’t always nice.  Recruitment should come from all walks of life. The way some on here are anti police they’ll be wanting to recruit ex cons  Another issue with modern day policing is weak management more concerned in not upsetting people because it’ll slow down their careers.  The street Bobby needs to be allowed to police and should expect support from bosses not feel intimidated by situations because of a fear of being criticised and dragged over the coals

How much of a coppers duty is involved in attending carnivals compared to say solving crime phil? If you can't take a joke or a bit of baiting then find another job the police need the ability stay calm at all times I should think.

Again you are colouring the debate by adding ridiculous scenarios, I could counter by saying there are more than enough law breakers in their ranks already but I do understand that they are in the minority.

You need to go back and read that report we discussed previously, all of it, I think you would find it helpful and that it supports the force and those in it that want to do a good job.

[SydneyRover]

This is what you wrote NR ''Over recent decades ex military have contributed to very substantial numbers within the police ranks''

[wilts rover]

Police funding has declined by 16% since 2010

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/performance-tracker-2019/police

Around half of the UK's police stations have closed since 2010.

https://www.countytimes.co.uk/news/19125514.half-countrys-police-stations-closed-since-2010/

23500 police officer posts have been cut since 2010.

https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/shock-figures-reveal-23500-police-staff-cut-under-tories

The number of detectives working in major crime units has declined by 28% since 2010

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/performance-tracker-2019/police

The number of officers working in local policing has declined 11% since 2015

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/performance-tracker-2019/police

The number of PCSO's has declined by 40% since 2010

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/performance-tracker-2019/police

If there is a problem with the police in this country is not them paining their nails in rainbow colours. It's Teresa May and Priti Patel funding and running them.

Well done to those officers (and the people who support them) on the front line. It's not something I would fancy doing - and I fear its only going to get more difficult this autum/winter if the economy tanks.