Patel tells Police to get back to basics

[normal rules]

This is what you wrote NR ''Over recent decades ex military have contributed to very substantial numbers within the police ranks''

Compared to “other walks of life” I believe that is factual.
It still does not make the police service a quasi military force.
Of 90 people on my training course at Ryton in 1999, I believe around 30 were ex military. That’s a significant proportion compared to others. I don’t recall any of the 90 being uni leavers . Not one.
There are less in the military these days so it’s not surprising numbers are less.
Adding the requirement to have a degree will make this pretty much zero. And policing will miss out.
I can recall numerous incidents over the years when an “ assistance shout” has gone out over the radio. Indicating an officer needs help. Fridays night market place scenarios with drunken yobs kicking off etc.
It was invariably ex military cops that would be there to wade in and save their colleagues from a good kicking or worse. Those that have served in the police know that the ex military cops were always the ones you could rely on when the shit hit the fan. It was also large number of ex military that formed the PSU contingent.
These are the specialist cops that police protests. Football matches. High profile policing events such as G8 summits. Why? Because people form other walks of life simply would not tolerate being sent on detached duty for a week at a time, away from home, sleeping in sub standard conditions and having to work in sometimes arduous conditions such as policing right wing/ left wing demos. Where violent protest was not un common.
I can sadly report that Recruitment to our local PSU is struggling. Why? Because people simply cannot hack this important area of policing. They don’t want the conflict. They don’t want to wear all the protective kit which is heavy and cumbersome. Some of them just are not fit enough to do it either. They don’t want to be away from home for a few days at a time, they don’t want to be deprived of home comforts. All things that ex military take in their stride.
Then there is the firearms side of things. The vast majority of people joining the police today have no desire to bear arms. With ex military, it’s much easier.

Read this from the West Mercia police website. This is a small force btw.


West Mercia Police is proud to employ more than 130 ex-service personnel, cadet leaders and reservists and we actively encourage people from such a background to apply for our vacancies. A large percentage of our police officer applicants have served in the military, and almost 5% of applicants for staff roles have previously worked for the MOD. Much of the training, discipline, and mental fortitude that you've developed during your time in the military will be of value to you as a police officer.

Officers and staff with a forces background play a vital part within our police force and in recognition of this, we have signed the Armed Forces Covenant. We are one of only a few police forces in the UK to have received the coveted Employer Recognition Scheme Gold Award from the Armed Forces Covenant, which acknowledges the level of support and advocacy we offer to our colleagues with military experience, including a network of Armed Forces Champions.

We are very supportive of our existing staff who are also reservists and cadet instructors, with specific policies which enable them to meet their annual training requirement.

If you would like to speak to one of our Armed Forces Champions, please contact ArmedForcesChampion@westmercia.pnn.police.uk and we will arrange for you to talk informally with someone at West Mercia Police who is ex-military personnel.

[SydneyRover]

I guess NR you have to consider what they will be doing for the bulk of their time, as you would know what the largest area of crime is, ask yourself if military training would necessarily help a person solve any of it? or would a degree, being relevant of course help at all. Your sneering at new recruits with degrees shows a lack of understanding of what is required.

By the way I am in no way saying that ex-military should not join the force but recruitment should reflect a need and specialisation requirements. The report makes the case for this and makes the case for more funding and more training.

[normal rules]

All well and good with streamed recruitment. Ie recruits to cid will always remain in cid. Spec ops will always be spec ops and so on.
However, uk police operate a system where cops are required to work across differing policing areas. Because policing areas overlap.

[phil old leake]

Syd once again you show your anti establishment side.  What ridiculous scenario are you referring to. 

People filming officers behaving unprofessionally is clear to see. People at these events having nonsense of respect for the police. That’s why 2 officers were sexually assaulted. 

Please explain to me how having a degree helps solve crime.  Having an active mind and a desire to work selves crimes along with being able to talk to people sometimes about difficult subjects or in dangerous situations

Having a degree in sports science won’t help

[SydneyRover]

Syd once again you show your anti establishment side.  What ridiculous scenario are you referring to. 

*The bit I highlighted in your comment phil

People filming officers behaving unprofessionally is clear to see. People at these events having nonsense of respect for the police. That’s why 2 officers were sexually assaulted. 

*Not sure what you are referring to here phil.

Please explain to me how having a degree helps solve crime.  Having an active mind and a desire to work selves crimes along with being able to talk to people sometimes about difficult subjects or in dangerous situations

*If you know what area of crime is the greatest and of course you do, then you should be able to answer this yourself phil

Having a degree in sports science won’t help

*Read what I wrote about having a degree phil

[normal rules]

I guess NR you have to consider what they will be doing for the bulk of their time, as you would know what the largest area of crime is, ask yourself if military training would necessarily help a person solve any of it? or would a degree, being relevant of course help at all. Your sneering at new recruits with degrees shows a lack of understanding of what is required.

By the way I am in no way saying that ex-military should not join the force but recruitment should reflect a need and specialisation requirements. The report makes the case for this and makes the case for more funding and more training.

Post graduates have little or no understanding of the pressures and strains placed on police officers in the 21st c. And they usually have little relevant life experience to assist them in this transition. Which is shown in the amount that drop out when they realise it’s not for them. Usually after their first incident when they have been rolling around on the floor with someone off their head on crack who wants to beat them to a pulp. And every cop does their two year probation in uniform. Policing the streets and dealing with basic policing matters.

[idler]

My son-in-law joined the police mid-nineties with a sports degree.
Two years at Dewsbury Moor (Shannon Mathews territory) before going into a plain clothes position in child protection. He went back on the beat when promoted to sergeant before promotion to Inspector.
He’s now a Chief Inspector having various positions in his last two ranks. When he goes for Superintendent he will have a massive range of skills. That is the ideal way for graduates to go.
Theresa May didn’t help though when as Home Secretary she targeted police numbers and criticised police officers. They lost a lot of valuable experienced officers due to her policy.

[phil old leake]

You make a good point there idler. The thing about only wanting graduates is that not everyone wants to or has the ability/ desire to get promoted.  Some of the best police officers are the ones that don’t get promoted stay at the coal face and get involved on a day to day basis with all the unsavoury jobs.  These are the officers that need support.  They don’t need negativity thrown at them every day by press  media and other sources.  These are the people the police want/need. They get the job done

[SydneyRover]

I guess NR you have to consider what they will be doing for the bulk of their time, as you would know what the largest area of crime is, ask yourself if military training would necessarily help a person solve any of it? or would a degree, being relevant of course help at all. Your sneering at new recruits with degrees shows a lack of understanding of what is required.

By the way I am in no way saying that ex-military should not join the force but recruitment should reflect a need and specialisation requirements. The report makes the case for this and makes the case for more funding and more training.

Post graduates have little or no understanding of the pressures and strains placed on police officers in the 21st c. And they usually have little relevant life experience to assist them in this transition. Which is shown in the amount that drop out when they realise it’s not for them. Usually after their first incident when they have been rolling around on the floor with someone off their head on crack who wants to beat them to a pulp. And every cop does their two year probation in uniform. Policing the streets and dealing with basic policing matters.

sort of in the same position when you joined the army then NR?

[normal rules]

I guess NR you have to consider what they will be doing for the bulk of their time, as you would know what the largest area of crime is, ask yourself if military training would necessarily help a person solve any of it? or would a degree, being relevant of course help at all. Your sneering at new recruits with degrees shows a lack of understanding of what is required.

By the way I am in no way saying that ex-military should not join the force but recruitment should reflect a need and specialisation requirements. The report makes the case for this and makes the case for more funding and more training.

Post graduates have little or no understanding of the pressures and strains placed on police officers in the 21st c. And they usually have little relevant life experience to assist them in this transition. Which is shown in the amount that drop out when they realise it’s not for them. Usually after their first incident when they have been rolling around on the floor with someone off their head on crack who wants to beat them to a pulp. And every cop does their two year probation in uniform. Policing the streets and dealing with basic policing matters.

sort of in the same position when you joined the army then NR?

No. I went to an army apprentices college age 16. And had two years of being drilled into being an adult, soldier and a technician, before joining an adult Regiment aged 18.
A soldiers life is much simpler than a police officers In my experience. But an experienced soldier can bring alot to the role of PC.

[SydneyRover]

Thanks NR I accept you take on that.

[SydneyRover]

''Liz Truss’s law and order policies ‘meaningless’, says police chief

Lewis’s concern at her comments is shared by other police chiefs, who believe there is no factual evidence to support the claim that real crimes are regularly being ignored because officers waste time on pointless Twitter rows and “wokeness”.

Another chief constable from a well-performing force told the Guardian there were fears the government was struggling on law and order, and thus “setting policing” up for the blame. They said: “We have been sliced and diced,” and added: “There is no force, that is not overwhelmed by crime, demands, and mental health.”

Lewis, the chief constable of the Dyfed-Powys force, said debate about policing was welcome but added: “The public are not well-served by calls for the force to ‘investigate real crime as opposed to Twitter rows and hurt feelings’; or generalised phrases such as ‘back to basics’, as used by Liz Truss’s campaign''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/02/liz-truss-law-and-order-policies-meaningless-says-police-chief

I guess that means he disagrees with the OP and all the others that talk about woke also

[Bristol Red Rover]

Whenever a Tory is wanting "back to basics" on anything, you can be sure that means people tugging their forelocks and giving more to the rich barstewards at the top of the financial food chain.

It's the saddest thing ever that so many buy into this evil lie.