Let's talk about the Hartlepool United game

[selby]

   An away game against a side that was one of the best away day experiences when I was younger with great beer in the pubs around the ground, with the brewery across the road you would expect it, a great atmosphere, and usually a incident packed game to watch, and characters like Whitehurst making impacts on the game that are memorable to those who were there to witness them, and memories of never being so cold at games  with snow flurries coming in off the sea.
  Proper games, proper players, and fun..
 Now it has gone up market, the ramshackle harbour is now a called a marina with posh boats, and the old asbestos dock buildings have been replaced by a large super market, and parts of the town centre is pedestrianised, which is great, but much like other towns now.
  The last time I was there we were hoping to come away as champions of the division after then game, only to witness Ferguson give  the most inept management performance I have witnessed leaving us in third place in a one horse race.
  So on to our next game, that game however typified Hartlepool as a club and team, never give up, never give in, and battle against the odds.  In all my time they have had very little as far as riches are concerned, mainly get young cast offs from their bigger neighbours in the North East, and players from the strong non league scene in that area, and unfortunately are often robbed of their best players who flourish while there who move on to bigger things at other clubs (hopefully Molyneux follows that pattern).
  Hartlepool currently sit in the relegation spot second from bottom, on the face of it an easier game than we have had recently, it will not be, and we will need to go there with the right attitude. In  Wesley McDonald they have a player if fit who can cause problems for most teams and were unfortunate to concede a very late equaliser v Colchester last weekend that snatched their first win of the season away from them right at the death of the game, so motivation to go one better against us.
  They went into that game with only one recognised striker who had to go off injured, hopefully they have players back for our game.
  We have to pick ourselves up after our first league defeat in ten games and need to get off on another unbeaten run of games as quick as possible. The easy thing is to look to change things point fingers at individuals and basically panic and in some cases kick of on social media about the management team and some players, who up to Saturday had exceeded all expectations in a hard start to the season fixture wise.
  I have never been for changes after such a run, the odd one tactically to suit a certain situation yes, but for the sake of it no, and if all are fit in this situation I would do exactly that, and start the same team as Saturday unless seeing a tactical playing reason or a small positional change that are considered every game.
  Not every team in this division will have the players to disrupt our game Mansfield posses, or a manager with the tactical brain of Clough, and we have imposed our game in periods of games against all the teams we have met before the Mansfield game, and even for periods an Saturday v Mansfield, and as far as I can see if it is not broken why change things, fail in this game then yes look at things differently, but don't press the panic button just yet.
   As ever what would you do?
   Would you make changes? I would not.
   Are you going to the game?
   Are you like me expecting a hard game?
   Can we get back on track?
  Lots to be discussed about this game, this game and the game at Barrow could be the games that set our season up or not, and neither side can be underestimated, please have your say on the Hartlepool game all comments welcome.
   

[ravenrover]

Rowe into midfield rest Hurst, and the jury is out on Molyneux as far as I am concerned

[selby]

  RR, I think you would play Molyneux in this game, could agree about Rowe but feel Biggins got undue criticism Saturday and suffered because of their game plan rather than poor play, the game before he played very well.
  The issue is Rowe, how do we fit him in our game plan being such a good player, in fact I would give him a free role further forward and probably sacrifice one of the wide players, getting into that area when possible and generally between Tomlin on the left and defence so he got on the ball.

[steve@dcfd]

It’s another team that play 352 we have struggled against teams that play that system we’ve eventually got results but Saturday we failed. Either go three at the back with wingbacks three in midfield and two up top or
Put Tommy in the midfield with Clayton and Biggins. Leave out either Tomlin or Molyneux both luxury players but do not work hard enough and play Hurst
I would also start Long on the left of back two if he stays with that and give Faulkner a rest he’s done nothing wrong but Long is more naturally left sided.
But knowing McSheffrey he’ll probably leave out Biggins play Rowe and bring in Maxwell and everybody else same as Saturday and we could get overrun in midfield.

[Alan Southstand]

Hurst is the last player I’d rest, as he was the only one in midfield who looked like he could break through. If we’re going to set up with 3v2 in centre midfield again, then I despair.

We have to change the mindset of both Molyneux and Hurst when we havn’t got the ball, as it was obvious on Saturday where the problems were - down the middle. Either that or change the system to suit, which may mean a change in personnel.

Hartlepool may not have the same quality as Mansfield, but if they play the same system and we do nothing to combat it, then I see another uncomfortable afternoon.

Oh, and can we start and utilise our only striker instead of pumping high aimless balls up to him! The number of times Miller was making runs to go in behind (on Saturday) only to find we’d passed it back or square!

Wake up call. Use it.

[Panda]

Miller needs a partner or we need to stop looking to hit him with long balls and get midfield players up quicker.

Hurst and Tomlin for me shuld start. Why would anyone rest Tomlin unless he's a bit cream crackered?

Rowe in a more advanced area and see what happens. Molyneux needs to significantly improve if he gets the nod. I'd keep Faulkner in. Williams needs to wake up this game and shake off Saturday's atrocity.

As for the Poolies, i've not seen anything of them this season so don't know how their overall performances have been but their results don't suggest that this will be a relatively straightforward game.

They've chucked in some stinkers and conceded 4 on 3 occasions this season (all away from home) but in some games when they've gone behind they've equalised and then gradually got worn down including conceding an injury time equaliser at Col U last time out. Before that they beat Harrogate at home 2-0 and they've also drawn 0-0 with both Tranmere and Wimbledon at home so this could be a draw perhaps? Won't be easy and their league position currently might not tell the whole story.

As for Hartlepool the place, i went up about 4 years ago for a Pools v Exeter fixture and had a wander around the historic quay where they have a fantastic museum and the chance to walk around an old steamer that is moored there too. I also went to Seaton Carew and beach which was lovely. I'm not one for wasting my life going 2 hours to a place just to drink beer in pubs and then go home after the footy. Can't see the point in that but each to their own. Rather see summat of the place whilst i'm there if i've made the effort.

Great people up there though and maybe usurps Donny for the reputation of having the most deprived place in England. Horden. Hexthorpe runs it close lol.

I'm not going to the game but hopefully one day i'll get back up there and take a game in.

Hope the travelling Rovers enjoy their day regardless whether they are boozing or not or whether we win or not.

I'll go for a 0-0 draw.

[selby]

  Panda  I can't think of any two hour visit to a pub that has ever been wasted Panda, I have always found it a marvellous experience even when I owned a couple and was working. There is more sense talked in pubs than in any establishment including the House of Lords and the Commons  in this country.
  As for your team selections and comments I agree whole heartedly, but would hope that we could get men from advanced positions in mid field up to support Miller rather than dedicating someone to play alongside him,
  Until front players come back fit we don't have front players available to play that position, Rowe playing just behind Tomlin left side covers the extra man in midfield, and dependant on the play, with the full back would have to work the flank left side, at least he has done that before.

[oggycompton]

xg has them underperforming where they should be and us overperforming. I don't have faith GMc has the tactical nous to be able to pick a side to break a team down.

I'll go 1-0 Hartlepool...hope I'm wrong.

[steve@dcfd]

Quote
Until front players come back fit we don't have front players available to play that position,

Tomlin could play that position just behind Miller.
Woltman been brought in who could play that position he’s an unknown yet but can play that position.

It’s up to GMC but we need three midfield players to ensure we can compete. It was always said Tomlin was never going to start every game. He has the skills but the work rate going back in midfield is questionable. So we’ll see what GMC as learnt from Saturday.

[mugnapper]

My advice to anyone going is to take a coat.
I once went there on a sunny Leger Day in the late 70s early 80's for a dismal 1-0 defeat and it was chuffing freezing despite the sun. (That was the day the legendary John Bukovina rattled the bar with a 20 yard half volley which was the highlight of his 15 minute Rovers career).
There was also the midweek game where Billy Whitehurst got sent off early for attempting the first decapitation by football boot.
It was so cold, that at halftime, we all huddled together in the toilets, trying to get warm from the steam off people's p1ss lol. We drew 0-0 despite playing most of the game with 10 men.

[danumdon]

It would of been nice IF we had the personnel to play a 3 5 2 but i dont think we do. It would involve players like Knoyle and Maxwell being able to get up and down, have a very good engine and be able to supply first rate crosses into the box for Miller and A N other to attack. I think the full backs can get much better, Knoyle has produced a cross or two already this season, Maxwell i feel has been made a bit of a scapegoat, should never have been dropped, he's still growing into the position and i think he will be a success for us.

This leave us with our present predicament, how do we prevent teams from overrunning us in midfield yet still have an attacking option to go forward with.

I got the impression on Sat that both wide players were actively staying very wide, it was noticeable that Hurst and Molyneux hugged the touchlines and looked like they had been told to stay wide and not to drift infield, this looked like it backfired massively for us, Molyneux was played out of the game and Hurst who promised plenty and needs wrapping in cotton wool eventually went the same way. Clayton and Tomlin were never going to be able to help too much to control the center leaving Biggins as the fall guy with too much to do and with little support, this after he had a very good game the week previous. Mansfield were fully on it and were never going to give us the freedom to sit back and spray the ball around from deep, this made Claytons play less effective, Tomlin just did his thing and with a bit more luck going his way could of had us in a different position before they scored their third goal to finish us off.
I think we need to go back to our basics, Maxewell back into left FB, Rowe to play further forward but where? im thinking in place of Molyneux? bringing Hurst to the right wing?

May be a case to ask Tomlin to blow his load in the first 45 and then change to bring others into play. difficult decisions but it what we pay the manager for, lets see what he makes of it.

[vaya]

My advice to anyone going is to take a coat.
I once went there on a sunny Leger Day in the late 70s early 80's for a dismal 1-0 defeat and it was chuffing freezing despite the sun. (That was the day the legendary John Bukovina rattled the bar with a 20 yard half volley which was the highlight of his 15 minute Rovers career).
There was also the midweek game where Billy Whitehurst got sent off early for attempting the first decapitation by football boot.
It was so cold, that at halftime, we all huddled together in the toilets, trying to get warm from the steam off people's p1ss lol. We drew 0-0 despite playing most of the game with 10 men.

It's been a while since I've been, but they did have some kind of Heath Robinson clear perspex lash-up at the end of the stand to try and cut down on the wind scything in from the sea.

[Panda]

Sunny 18 degrees saturday. Perfect.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

Attending a wedding Saturday and will most likely be away from the realms of football till Sunday. Fingers crossed I peel my head off the duck feather and see we've given the Monkey Hangers a good seeing to.

[sedwardsdrfc]

The only change is what to do with Rowe. Don’t want him left back personally so I’d either play him ahead of Tomlin (I’ll get slated for this I know) or ahead of Biggins.

It’s a long season and think we should accept an element of rotation in that midfield area where we have strength. Rather than shoe horning Rowe to left back just to fit everyone in. I’d rather have a top player to bring on with 30 to go

[danumdon]

The only change is what to do with Rowe. Don’t want him left back personally so I’d either play him ahead of Tomlin (I’ll get slated for this I know) or ahead of Biggins.

It’s a long season and think we should accept an element of rotation in that midfield area where we have strength. Rather than shoe horning Rowe to left back just to fit everyone in. I’d rather have a top player to bring on with 30 to go

Agree, horses for courses, we may get more out of Tomlin playing him in certain games, like at Home or against a side he should be able to run through.

When it comes to battling in a tricky away game a Tommy Rowe might be the better option, like you said an attacking prospect to come on late and run at tired defenders could be a trump card, we need to start using it.

[Panda]

Does Jamie Sterry still play for them? Saw him a few times the other season and thought he was a bit of a player. Could have done us some damage for sure.

[drfchound]

Sterry is still at Hartlepool.

[scawsby steve]

Miller needs a partner or we need to stop looking to hit him with long balls and get midfield players up quicker.

Hurst and Tomlin for me shuld start. Why would anyone rest Tomlin unless he's a bit cream crackered?

Rowe in a more advanced area and see what happens. Molyneux needs to significantly improve if he gets the nod. I'd keep Faulkner in. Williams needs to wake up this game and shake off Saturday's atrocity.

As for the Poolies, i've not seen anything of them this season so don't know how their overall performances have been but their results don't suggest that this will be a relatively straightforward game.

They've chucked in some stinkers and conceded 4 on 3 occasions this season (all away from home) but in some games when they've gone behind they've equalised and then gradually got worn down including conceding an injury time equaliser at Col U last time out. Before that they beat Harrogate at home 2-0 and they've also drawn 0-0 with both Tranmere and Wimbledon at home so this could be a draw perhaps? Won't be easy and their league position currently might not tell the whole story.

As for Hartlepool the place, i went up about 4 years ago for a Pools v Exeter fixture and had a wander around the historic quay where they have a fantastic museum and the chance to walk around an old steamer that is moored there too. I also went to Seaton Carew and beach which was lovely. I'm not one for wasting my life going 2 hours to a place just to drink beer in pubs and then go home after the footy. Can't see the point in that but each to their own. Rather see summat of the place whilst i'm there if i've made the effort.

Great people up there though and maybe usurps Donny for the reputation of having the most deprived place in England. Horden. Hexthorpe runs it close lol.

I'm not going to the game but hopefully one day i'll get back up there and take a game in.

Hope the travelling Rovers enjoy their day regardless whether they are boozing or not or whether we win or not.

I'll go for a 0-0 draw.

I'm the same, Panda. I never booze on match days. On Saturday(now I've been lucky enough to get a ticket), I'll be heading for the sea front and marina, and looking for a good fish 'n' chip shop.

[rich1471]

The marina is nice and they have developed it well ,I would a oid the town centre at all costs it's just so run down its depressing

[selby]

  When people like Steve are wandering about the Marina sitting in the open air drinking his Americano or late coffee, it's the  time to Tax  the old carton of coffee the same as beer and stop the old codgers living off the back of the pub goers paying for their free pills to keep them going.
  Hope you have a great day Steve and bring back the points buddy.

[selby]

  Reading the Hartlepool supporters forum there does not seem to be a lot of love for their present manager going around and lot's of criticism of the standard of players Hartley has brought to the club mainly recruited from non league and Scotland, and reflects the investment and the market small clubs like Hartlepool have to do their business in.
  It is hard when they build a decent side and their best players are cherry picked all the time, even some top non league sides will have a bigger budget and it must be hard work for any manager.
   The one thing they always bring to games however is enthusiasm and a will to do well, and as we have seen in the past  if you let them get on top they are difficult opposition to face and get a result from, something we need to match to allow us to play our own game.
  It is easy to look at their record and think this game is one we have in the bag, it will not be, we ourselves have to be on it all the time to compete, so attitude and our approach to the game is 
 important and crucial if we are going to succeed.
  From reports one of their main weakness's is a lack of pace in central defence, although they are hoping for  a couple to return from injury for this game as like ourselves they have had a long injury crisis to contend with up to press this season.
  I would start the same side for ourselves as against Mansfield, wholesale changes are not required after one set back and a good start to the season, and with it now being a game with much more latitude to the use of substitutes, reaction to situations during a game and the change of personnel during play
to be honest makes the opening line up less important to me, its now a multi player game, the management interference of personnel of the players on the field now the major factor.
  What do you think?
 

[roversdude]

My only change would be Maxwell in at LB with Tommy playing further forward in place of Biggins or Hurst (young lad played a few games on the bounce)

[steve@dcfd]

Last Saturday against another team who play 352 as do Hartlepool we were overrun in midfield. Therefore Tommy to go in there with Clayton and Biggins. Then for me leave either Molyneux or Tomlin on the bench. Hurst work rate is good. If we have two in the middle which ever two we will find it hard again which we have done against all the teams that have played 352 we have eventually later in the second half overcome until last week.

[Beerseller]

My advice to anyone going is to take a coat.
I once went there on a sunny Leger Day in the late 70s early 80's for a dismal 1-0 defeat and it was chuffing freezing despite the sun. (That was the day the legendary John Bukovina rattled the bar with a 20 yard half volley which was the highlight of his 15 minute Rovers career).
There was also the midweek game where Billy Whitehurst got sent off early for attempting the first decapitation by football boot.
It was so cold, that at halftime, we all huddled together in the toilets, trying to get warm from the steam off people's p1ss lol. We drew 0-0 despite playing most of the game with 10 men.

That Leger day game, I may well have been there, possibly on the supporters club coach before Ken Avis wisely banned me for being too pissed too often. If not, I was on the Retford coach.

Anyway, I have a memory that John Bukovina picked up a through ball just inside the centre circle, went hell for leather towards goal and left the ball behind part way.

I may even have played footie against him at school, can’t remember which school he was at but it was a Barnsley area one.

[roversdude]

Corner Flag bar at the ground still welcomes away fans

[rich1471]

We are 13/8 to win on Saturday which are cracking odds to be honest

[Chris Black come back]

It is hard to look past the fact that they have scored one goal in their last seven home league games. That is an appalling record. It goes back to last season obviously so there is clearly some deep rooted issue with them. That one goal they did score was from their left back.

[selby]

  CBcb, according to their forum they went into the game at Colchester last weekend with just one recognised striker fit, and I think he got injured during the game.
  However their injury situation seems to be improving and in Sylia they have stumbled on a defender who brings pace in the defensive central area where pace has been a problem in the early season. Menoyese also a competent defender.
  We generally don't do easy, and teams already looking as though they are fighting in the lower reaches of the league are never easy, our own approach to the game will be crucial.  After our first defeat of the season, in a general great start to the season against mostly top half of the division sides, I see no need for major personnel changes, just determination to get back on track and get a result from the collective.
   We should have enough in our locker to get a result and get back on track, it just will not be easy.

[Metalmicky]

However their injury situation seems to be improving

Maybe not....

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/football/hartlepool-united-captain-to-miss-doncaster-rovers-clash-as-paul-hartley-confirms-midfielder-will-see-specialist-3835801