Andy's Man Club

[Panda]

Difficult for me to post but i've just been diagnosed with depression and apparently this can cause anger, hostility, harsh unfair judgement of others and almost hatred in some cases towards people which goes some way to explaining my attitude, although not excusing it.

I had no idea and thought depression was more about apathy, hopelessness and just being unmotivated - all of which i have to some degree. It is kind of weird to think that depressive illness can cause such distortions of the emotions that lead to intolerance and hostility of others. Scary to think how to deal with it too.

Apparently it is known as emotional burnout where a person is just so persistently overwhelmed with 'stuff' and stress that they simply don't have the capacity anymore to even cope or deal with the simplest of issues that life throws at them and they respond with hostility or anger.

Andy's Man Club do a meeting at the hotel near the Eco Power on a monday and i wondered if anybody had any experience of this / these meets or know anyone that has? Obviously don't have to say who. It is a bit of a drive for me but considering going although there is a nearer one to me near Sheffield but don't like driving into Sheff.

Thanks

[tyke1962]

Difficult for me to post but i've just been diagnosed with depression and apparently this can cause anger, hostility and almost hatred towards people which goes some way to explaining my attitude, although not excusing it.

I had no idea and thought depression was more about apathy, hopelessness and just being unmotivated - all of which i have to some degree. It is kind of weird to think that depressive illness can cause such distortions of the emotions that lead to intolerance and hostility of others. Scary to think how to deal with it too.

Apparently it is known as emotional burnout where a person is just so persistently overwhelmed with 'stuff' and stress that they simply don't have the capacity anymore to even cope or deal with the simplest of issues that life throws at them and they respond with hostility or anger.

Andy's Man Club do a meeting at the hotel near the Eco Power on a monday and i wondered if anybody had any experience of this / these meets? It is a bit of a drive for me but considering going although there is a nearer one to me near Sheffield but don't like driving into Sheff.

Thanks

Sorry to hear about this but you've already taken the most difficult steps by acknowledging what's wrong and seeking a solution .

About 15 years ago I went through a similar thing , stressful job and lived at the time in a really bad neighbourhood where loud music was going on all hours , drug dealing and other anti social behaviour .

There was no escape at work or at home and eventually after about 18 months I completely broke down .

I was constantly exhausted , couldn't cope with anything , my mind had gone so much I couldn't even remember my pin number at the ATM , I'd had the same number for years .

Once I parked up to do some shopping in South Elmsall , I couldn't remember where I'd parked my car , took me an hour to find it .

I eventually found an organisation called MIND which is a registered charity and started going once a week for counselling , the NHS back then wasn't equipped for mental health issues , the waiting list was 12 months so you can imagine what it is like today .

Bit by bit , brick by brick I started to mend , I'll like to tell you that it was easy and happened overnight , it didn't for me .

It took a few years with some setbacks along the way but eventually I recovered fully .

I wish you well Panda with your journey because that's in reality what it is .

You will get there , in fact you've already started with your post today .

[turnbull for england]

It's worth it. I know it helps . I've never needed to personally but have been to the funerals of some that should have. Don't suffer in silence

[BillyStubbsTears]

Difficult for me to post but i've just been diagnosed with depression and apparently this can cause anger, hostility, harsh unfair judgement of others and almost hatred in some cases towards people which goes some way to explaining my attitude, although not excusing it.

I had no idea and thought depression was more about apathy, hopelessness and just being unmotivated - all of which i have to some degree. It is kind of weird to think that depressive illness can cause such distortions of the emotions that lead to intolerance and hostility of others. Scary to think how to deal with it too.

Apparently it is known as emotional burnout where a person is just so persistently overwhelmed with 'stuff' and stress that they simply don't have the capacity anymore to even cope or deal with the simplest of issues that life throws at them and they respond with hostility or anger.

Andy's Man Club do a meeting at the hotel near the Eco Power on a monday and i wondered if anybody had any experience of this / these meets or know anyone that has? Obviously don't have to say who. It is a bit of a drive for me but considering going although there is a nearer one to me near Sheffield but don't like driving into Sheff.

Thanks

Sorry to hear that and it's a brave thing to post.

I wish you well and will try to remember this in our exchanges.

[Panda]

Difficult for me to post but i've just been diagnosed with depression and apparently this can cause anger, hostility, harsh unfair judgement of others and almost hatred in some cases towards people which goes some way to explaining my attitude, although not excusing it.

I had no idea and thought depression was more about apathy, hopelessness and just being unmotivated - all of which i have to some degree. It is kind of weird to think that depressive illness can cause such distortions of the emotions that lead to intolerance and hostility of others. Scary to think how to deal with it too.

Apparently it is known as emotional burnout where a person is just so persistently overwhelmed with 'stuff' and stress that they simply don't have the capacity anymore to even cope or deal with the simplest of issues that life throws at them and they respond with hostility or anger.

Andy's Man Club do a meeting at the hotel near the Eco Power on a monday and i wondered if anybody had any experience of this / these meets or know anyone that has? Obviously don't have to say who. It is a bit of a drive for me but considering going although there is a nearer one to me near Sheffield but don't like driving into Sheff.

Thanks

Sorry to hear that and it's a brave thing to post.

I wish you well and will try to remember this in our exchanges.

You don't need to treat me any different Billy but cheers anyway. I get angry at you often on here simply because you hold the opposite view to me, especially about things which i am passionate about so i guess by default you could try and convince me with evidence and it just won't happen because i can't accept that i'm wrong. That's obviously partly personality trait on my part that isn't particularly helpful but it is also part mental illness / disorder.

I'm not sure how i square that circle but it is easier to continue in that vein than to try and sort it out, especially without any specialist input from NHS mental health services which quite frankly is killing people and i say that as someone who never ceases to be amazed at just how dysfunctional, cruel and inept they are.

[Panda]

Difficult for me to post but i've just been diagnosed with depression and apparently this can cause anger, hostility and almost hatred towards people which goes some way to explaining my attitude, although not excusing it.

I had no idea and thought depression was more about apathy, hopelessness and just being unmotivated - all of which i have to some degree. It is kind of weird to think that depressive illness can cause such distortions of the emotions that lead to intolerance and hostility of others. Scary to think how to deal with it too.

Apparently it is known as emotional burnout where a person is just so persistently overwhelmed with 'stuff' and stress that they simply don't have the capacity anymore to even cope or deal with the simplest of issues that life throws at them and they respond with hostility or anger.

Andy's Man Club do a meeting at the hotel near the Eco Power on a monday and i wondered if anybody had any experience of this / these meets? It is a bit of a drive for me but considering going although there is a nearer one to me near Sheffield but don't like driving into Sheff.

Thanks

Sorry to hear about this but you've already taken the most difficult steps by acknowledging what's wrong and seeking a solution .

About 15 years ago I went through a similar thing , stressful job and lived at the time in a really bad neighbourhood where loud music was going on all hours , drug dealing and other anti social behaviour .

There was no escape at work or at home and eventually after about 18 months I completely broke down .

I was constantly exhausted , couldn't cope with anything , my mind had gone so much I couldn't even remember my pin number at the ATM , I'd had the same number for years .

Once I parked up to do some shopping in South Elmsall , I couldn't remember where I'd parked my car , took me an hour to find it .

I eventually found an organisation called MIND which is a registered charity and started going once a week for counselling , the NHS back then wasn't equipped for mental health issues , the waiting list was 12 months so you can imagine what it is like today .

Bit by bit , brick by brick I started to mend , I'll like to tell you that it was easy and happened overnight , it didn't for me .

It took a few years with some setbacks along the way but eventually I recovered fully .

I wish you well Panda with your journey because that's in reality what it is .

You will get there , in fact you've already started with your post today .

Hi Tyke.

Thanks for your reply. It was very open and honest. We're all just human in the end. Well, other than Boris Johnson lol. I'm so pleased you managed to get your issues resolved in the end and i know what you mean about it being a long old slog. It is pervasive and takes over your whole life.

I was going to say that the reason why you couldn't find your car where you left it in South Elmsall was probably because it had been nicked lol but you found it in the end so got lucky. Episodes like that are familiar.

Thanks for that anyway and i've been quoted 18 months for NHS help as i need more specific treatment but it has taken me a year to actually get access onto the service in the first place! A lot of my issues stem from not being given earlier intervention by the NHS and kind of why i have a grudge against them, as well as them being so useless.

Hope you doing better now.

[Panda]

It's worth it. I know it helps . I've never needed to personally but have been to the funerals of some that should have. Don't suffer in silence

Thanks for that. Yes, i knew a lad who i used to go to school with and go round town with about 15 or so years back. He was from Arksey and he committed suicide. Also a lad i work with at the RSPCA, his brother hung himself and only in the last few months, one of the RSPCA Inspectors i worked with for years in the Midlands killed himself with a captive bolt gun that they use to euthanase deer and cattle. That was such a shock.

I've nearly driven off Filey cliff before but managed to talk myself out of it in the end but it is the sheer unprofessionalism and lack of empathy from the NHS that actually causes more distress. They treat people like scum IMO and make it so hard to access help.

[Panda]

It’s a good session Panda and worth going. There’s tears and some hard stories to listen to but you’re all in it together and support each other. Nobody judges but everybody understands the place you are currently in. Go on the website and register as you need to advise you’re attending. There’s also a closed Facebook page for each group that you will be invited into.
Good luck!

Cheers for that info Knockers. I'm a bit apprehensive about being with a load of blokes and getting upset but i guess they are all there for a reason, because they are really struggling too.

[normal rules]

Takes gumption to talk about this Panda. Esp on a 4th tier footy forum.
sounds like shallow words, but Pm me if U want to chat. About owt. I’ve seen a fair slice of life.  I don’t have a magic wand. But I am happy to listen pal.

[scawsby steve]

I've suffered from depression all my life. The worst effect it has on me is that it makes me think negatively all the time, always convinced that the worst is going to happen.

It's bloody awful always thinking Rovers are going to lose, even in games when we're favourites to win.

[i_ateallthepies]

I've suffered from depression all my life. The worst effect it has on me is that it makes me think negatively all the time, always convinced that the worst is going to happen.

It's bloody awful always thinking Rovers are going to lose, even in games when we're favourites to win.

I very much hope that in itself isn't a symptom of depression SS.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

Sounds cliche but talking really does help. I've never been to one of those meetings but I bet they do the world of good. Loads of chaps in the same boat just helping each other along. I bet even a couple of visits would work wonders.

[BahrainRover]

Panda well done 1st for addressing the issue, 2nd for talking about it!
I have been exactly where you are and its awful and can creep on you without you knowing. Earlier this year I hit the tipping point, I went from being super active and up for all and anything to sitting on the couch not wanting to do anything. The thought of going to work, shopping out with the wife and kids filled me with dread. This made me irritable and totally antisocial. In the end my wife forced me to go get checked out. In the end it was determined I was suffering acute anxiety and depression. But the thing that shocked us most this was put down to underlying undiagnosed ADHD, yes ADHD can send you the otherway and in to depression especially when coupled with anxiety. I am now on excellent medication that as given me more than just my life back, but a life I never had with ADHD. It was like suddenly putting the last piece of the jigsaw together, and explained and made sense of my past and why I did things or was making irrational decisions. I am so glad you looked for help, like I am glad my wife sent me. there is nothing to be ashamed of at all, I joke now at 53 I have become the naughty school boy at work. onwards and upwards Panda.

[Panda]

Panda well done 1st for addressing the issue, 2nd for talking about it!
I have been exactly where you are and its awful and can creep on you without you knowing. Earlier this year I hit the tipping point, I went from being super active and up for all and anything to sitting on the couch not wanting to do anything. The thought of going to work, shopping out with the wife and kids filled me with dread. This made me irritable and totally antisocial. In the end my wife forced me to go get checked out. In the end it was determined I was suffering acute anxiety and depression. But the thing that shocked us most this was put down to underlying undiagnosed ADHD, yes ADHD can send you the otherway and in to depression especially when coupled with anxiety. I am now on excellent medication that as given me more than just my life back, but a life I never had with ADHD. It was like suddenly putting the last piece of the jigsaw together, and explained and made sense of my past and why I did things or was making irrational decisions. I am so glad you looked for help, like I am glad my wife sent me. there is nothing to be ashamed of at all, I joke now at 53 I have become the naughty school boy at work. onwards and upwards Panda.

Hi Bahrain Rover. Thanks for your story which was both interesting and upsetting to read. I'm glad that you are in a better place and your story proves there is some hope.

Can i ask where you got the help from though? I think most people on here are aware of my contempt for the NHS, especially their lack of provision of mental health services and i guess that is why places like Andy's Man Club are both popular and vital. Because those paid to get us out of a rut (NHS) aren't there for us.

I was diagnosed with being on the autism spectrum aged 42 a few years ago but i'm on the really mild end of that where it doesn't cause too many problems above things that most people would probably consider minor foibles or eccentricities. I also was diagnosed with OCPD 20 years ago and i reckon this is what has led to much of my issues now as i have had no specific input from the NHS for all that time when in fact timely intervention for this condition is vital so that it doesn't porgress and affect someones life. Which it has done.

OCPD is not OCD. OCD is more checking taps and being obsessed about germs etc in a general sense. OCPD is considered a personality disorder where strong personality traits are dominant that can cause lots of interpersonal problems. For example one of the traits is perfectionism as well as wanting things done in a certain way and if they aren't you try to make this happen, even if it is not possible. This then causes anger and stress because trying to control what you can't control is a road to nowhere.

An intolerance of human mistakes and human behaviour of which elicits disapproval is prevalent and causes constant frustration leading to a feeling that you just want to avoid people altogether and thus the isolation begins and the condition worsens.

In actual fact the disorder itself makes ME intolerant but it tricks me into thinking that others are the problem and i'm the one who is right and 'normal'. As you can see, long term specific mental health intervention with something like this is vital to enable strategies to challenge thoughts and entrenched beliefs, but i've not had that and been let down by the NHS.

I had a great career ahead in the RSPCA where i worked for over 15 years but gradually got more and more pissed off with people i encountered and the organisation too and i don't work for them anymore. I've had this in my working life. Gradually finding fault and annoyances with increasing numbers of work colleagues and customers and management always leading to me leaving or kicking off and leaving.

I'm trying to access NHS support now but i've had a battle with that and they also treat you like dirt but i keep ticking over.

[Panda]

Takes gumption to talk about this Panda. Esp on a 4th tier footy forum.
sounds like shallow words, but Pm me if U want to chat. About owt. I’ve seen a fair slice of life.  I don’t have a magic wand. But I am happy to listen pal.

Cheers for that. Very kind NR.

[BahrainRover]

Hi Panda, Out here in the Middle East. We have excellent private hospital at work via Johns Hopkins. There was always something going on but I never thought anything of it much, just thought it was me. I have had comments at work joking like there goes Dave off on his OCD mission and such, little did they know. At the moment they are dealing the anxiety with serotonin reuptake inhibitor medication, then will look to deal the ADHD, as its a completely different approach and possible meds. I dread to think where I would be with the NHS. Good luck with yourself. Talking is good I find. My inbox is always available, and as I don’t know you it’s probably better and non judging. Dave.

[BahrainRover]

I have just re-read your post again to understand. The perfectionist and intolerance of others mistakes or lack of urgency is one of my main ADHD traits. I have the habit of wanting results at work and now, and I cannot understand why I cannot have them from others when I give immediate response to them. Also absolute appearance of lack of attention, even though I am actually paying attention. One of my major ones was the inability to sleep for long periods of time, 2/3 hours max. There’s lots you wouldn’t think of that all adds up.

[Colin C No.3]

I have a short fuse & had taken exception to a lot of your posts to the extent where I was on the verge of ‘gunning for you’.

I will bear your ‘condition’ in mind not only for your posts but those of others who wrangle me. We never know the person behind the post.

Perhaps at this period of time more than at any other in my lifetime it’s time to be kinder.

I wish you all the best now you have a diagnosis & trust you will find the help you need.

[BahrainRover]

CCN3, this is correct, we don’t know the person or what they are going through. What is worse is the person in question may not actually realize it themselves but it is there. This is why it is important to not be scared and talk to someone on how you are feeling. There are excellent people out there who who are trained to help you. You may feel it but you will not be the only one they hear things from!!

[Panda]

I have a short fuse & had taken exception to a lot of your posts to the extent where I was on the verge of ‘gunning for you’.

I will bear your ‘condition’ in mind not only for your posts but those of others who wrangle me. We never know the person behind the post.

Perhaps at this period of time more than at any other in my lifetime it’s time to be kinder.

I wish you all the best now you have a diagnosis & trust you will find the help you need.

Hi Colin. I really appreciate your comments. I know you were agitated shall we say at some of my posts  . I can understand why for a lot of people my posts come across as bit blunt, unforgiving, intolerant and excessively negative and i am aware of that. What i don't want to do though is stop being who i am to appease others and whilst i am aware that i am a more negative person, i make comments on GM / Rovers or anything else based on my view and just happens that most of the time that view is seen by others as being negative.

It doesn't mean that i am wrong and i do wish that sometimes people would read some posters negative posts and try and understand that most people aren't being negative for the sake of it. They are maybe really having a difficult time with frustration and anger and aim that at who they think is responsible (ie GM / Cukur lol etc) or maybe they do have a valid point but this is not seen with the same perspective as people who think glass half full.

I read somewhere that our different thinking styles are caused by whichever hemisphere of the brain is most dominant so some of it is not all the person's fault. For example, overly positive 'happy clappers' may have a tendency to forgive mistakes more and give people the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best in future whereas overly negative 'doom-mongers' may have a tendency to be unforgiving, short on patience and have more demand thinking issues.

For example GM this season. I'd assume most people would on the whole look at GM this season and think he's got results and growing into the role and they are happy and will leave it at that. Whilst a few of us do think this yes, but we also tend to delve too deeply into potential negative patterns that we feel we may have spotted and often that overrides the actual crux of the matter of being a football manager which is getting good results. I guess we have a natural tendency to spot patterns that could be potentially problematic (negative) and highlight them, even in the case of back to back 6 nil wins (if we had them) people like me would pick out some negative to the games as though we think we are clever and have seen things that others haven't so we can give ourselves a bit of superiority i guess.

With regards to your replies to me in general. They are often blunt and have a bit of sarcasm and the response to someone having a dig is to be obnoxious back and therefore a sort of online feud forms out of seemingly nothing. It is human nature i guess but yes, it is better to consider the other person before judging and posting but a lot of us find this hard even if we are aware as it is sort of automatic behaviour that is hard to take a step back from and analyse. I understand what you are saying.

I will make a stoic effort to not call you Mr number 3 again then Col. 

Thanks.

[Panda]

I have just re-read your post again to understand. The perfectionist and intolerance of others mistakes or lack of urgency is one of my main ADHD traits. I have the habit of wanting results at work and now, and I cannot understand why I cannot have them from others when I give immediate response to them. Also absolute appearance of lack of attention, even though I am actually paying attention. One of my major ones was the inability to sleep for long periods of time, 2/3 hours max. There’s lots you wouldn’t think of that all adds up.

Haha that is absolutely me to a tee. That's why i get so frustrated with politicians. How hard can it be to simply identify a problem and then get the problem sorted? Yet they never do. They have endless meetings and then if they finally do make any attempts at the problem, it is usually something so insignificant that the problem still remains just as bad. It beggars belief but again, it is the inability to understand how someone else's mind works when they fail to address something so obvious and within quick time.

When i was at work at the RSPCA i got burnt out as i would end up doing the work of 2 people in the end as some staff were so unaware of jobs that needed doing or so casual in their work that it annoyed the shit out of me. Then i ended up doing their work and then hating them! lol. Worse were having volunteers with me. Especially some of the younger ones. They often were studying veterinary medicine at uni but didn't know how to mop a f**king floor properly without leaving it like a swiiming pool. They didn't know how to wash windows properly in the dog kennels without leaving them muckier than they were before. They didn't know how to respond quickly when a cat escaped or a dog slipped the lead. A lot of them had more academic ability but zero reactiveness, awareness or common sense and an alarming ability to understand and follow basic instructions and it infuriated me. In the end my boss knew not to put volunteers with me as they wouldn't end up coming back! lol

To be fair we had some great volunteers to and if they were switched on, soon realized that i was a friendly bloke but didn't want to be asked every 5 minutes what they should do next instead of using their initiative and applied common sense then we got on and i could trust them to be relied upon and that would help me and the animals. For most volunteers though it was stressful for me. Being shadowed by one all day asking what do i do next and how do i do that with even the most basic of tasks when i also had a stressful demanding job of my own to do it was a nightmare.

I also used to spot things that others missed but i couldn't understand why others missed them. Like hosing out dog kennels and some staff leaving the hose lying around so that members of the public could potentially trip over them or i could be pulled out of a kennel by a strong dog and fall over it. Dog water bowls that were left empty of water in blazing sunshine or they'd been knocked over by a dog. Yes that actually happens in animal shelters due to staff who just aren't up to it or have poor awareness. I have to fill them up constantly when it wasn't even my side of the centre.

So yes, perfectionism and a lack of tolerance for people who can't do their jobs properly. GM watch out! 

[BobG]

I'm not sure how i square that circle but it is easier to continue in that vein than to try and sort it out, especially without any specialist input from NHS mental health services which quite frankly is killing people and i say that as someone who never ceases to be amazed at just how dysfunctional, cruel and inept they are.

Panda

Bravo Sir. I usually don't agree with almost everything you write - but not only do I think that you are one brave hombre but also, your last sentence, which I've quoted, is absolutely spot on. I would bore the pants of everyone on this forum if I tried to tell you just what my son and I have tried, and failed, in seeking help for his mother. The end result, of course, is a suicide attempt that damn nearly succeeded. Alex, my lad, quite by accident, happened to find her just in time. Not only does that disfigure any teenager, but it reinforces to me just how valueless those in power in this country believe individual human beings to be. Honestly, we have called, written, nagged, pleaded and ended up smashing our heads against the brick walls that have been erected to prevent people accessing mental health support. At least 4 different doctors we have spoken with, at length, have admitted that they accept Alex's Mum needs serious and urgent help, but she 'doesn't fit the guidelines'. When you ask what those guidelines are, you discover that unless you, the patient, are in IMMEDIATE danger of harming yourself or somebody else, then forget it. The mental health doors are locked, barred and bolted. The obvious riposte is to claim that somebody is about to harm either themselves or somebody else. We tried that... We got the Riot Squad with body armour, pickaxes and tear gas. f**kcing cretins the lot of 'em. And they refused to pay for the door they smashed down.

Don't go to the NHS for mental health issues. Pay for private health insurance for as long as you need to become eligible for treatment, use their support and then walk away from them. And this from a guy who abhors private medicine. Oh. And don't vote Tory. Scoundrels interested only in their own voting constituency. They don't give a toss about anybody outside of those who, statistically, vote for them.

Good luck Panda. If you ever need help, there's plenty of wise folk on here. Just ask mate.

BobG

[Panda]

I'm not sure how i square that circle but it is easier to continue in that vein than to try and sort it out, especially without any specialist input from NHS mental health services which quite frankly is killing people and i say that as someone who never ceases to be amazed at just how dysfunctional, cruel and inept they are.

Panda

Bravo Sir. I usually don't agree with almost everything you write - but not only do I think that you are one brave hombre but also, your last sentence, which I've quoted, is absolutely spot on. I would bore the pants of everyone on this forum if I tried to tell you just what my son and I have tried, and failed, in seeking help for his mother. The end result, of course, is a suicide attempt that damn nearly succeeded. Alex, my lad, quite by accident, happened to find her just in time. Not only does that disfigure any teenager, but it reinforces to me just how valueless those in power in this country believe individual human beings to be. Honestly, we have called, written, nagged, pleaded and ended up smashing our heads against the brick walls that have been erected to prevent people accessing mental health support. At least 4 different doctors we have spoken with, at length, have admitted that they accept Alex's Mum needs serious and urgent help, but she 'doesn't fit the guidelines'. When you ask what those guidelines are, you discover that unless you, the patient, are in IMMEDIATE danger of harming yourself or somebody else, then forget it. The mental health doors are locked, barred and bolted. The obvious riposte is to claim that somebody is about to harm either themselves or somebody else. We tried that... We got the Riot Squad with body armour, pickaxes and tear gas. f**kcing cretins the lot of 'em. And they refused to pay for the door they smashed down.

Don't go to the NHS for mental health issues. Pay for private health insurance for as long as you need to become eligible for treatment, use their support and then walk away from them. And this from a guy who abhors private medicine. Oh. And don't vote Tory. Scoundrels interested only in their own voting constituency. They don't give a toss about anybody outside of those who, statistically, vote for them.

Good luck Panda. If you ever need help, there's plenty of wise folk on here. Just ask mate.

BobG

Hi Bob. Your story sounds very distressing for you and your family. My fear is the NHS using things against me as a reason to bang me up or something, even though i don't even need it and am a million miles away from it. I don't trust them but what can you do? I guess private treatment is something worth considering. I can't believe the police were sent round to yours to kick your door down. I guess your wife must have been in a pretty bad way for that to happen though but you thought you'd get more empathy and compassion than being set about by police. That's scary stuff.

I'm coming round to the idea that the NHS aren't worth the stress and when you get access to help or if, they'll be useless anyway or try and hold your difficulties against you in some way. I've been a pretty antagonistic and obstinate person to deal with as far my local NHS Mental Health Trust is concerned. I'm so angry with them that i've been making so many complaints to the CEO and PALS and making them do some work for a change and getting them to think about how inefficient and inept they are.

That won't go down well and i worry a bit that someone will claim that i need protecting for my own good despite there being no evidence of that and bang me up. I have read that anyone with an autism diagnosis can be detained without any reason simply for being autistic and this is a law that some activists and campaigners are trying to get changed. People with autism are at the mercy of bent and corrupt mental health doctors.

Anyway, i don't know what things are like for you now but hope they are a lot better and thanks for sharing your story Bob.

[BobG]

Hi again Panda

I suppose anything could happen these days - but it's bloody difficult to believe that a patient could be fitted up simply on the say so of an individual doctor. I know members of a group tend to support other members, but I thought life changing decisions like you suggest would need sign off by more than one medic?

If you would consider a spot of advice in your dealings with bureaucracy?  You can be really quite plain speaking whilst appearing to be polite and gracious y'know. If, purely as an example, I was to write to the Chief Exec of my loval Trust about the effing useless mental health service his Trust provides, I'd think about something like this....

Dear Mr XXXX

I am writing to you to seek resolution to difficulties I am having. I appreciate that time will be a very precious resource for you so I have appended details of the siituation at Appendix 1. For your immediate information I will simply say that my partner has attempted suicide 4 times, once very nearly succesfully, my son and I have scoured the internet, the county and the Health Trust for support. Yet none has been forthcoming, I understand that mental health is a low priority for the goverrnment and that funding is therefore minimal.

I would like to suggest that either:

1) we jointly make public the case for increased funding and support, or
2) we jointly agree a pathway designed to ensure that my partner receives appropriate help

I look forward to your reply Mr Xxxxx.

Yours sincerely


CC: Rt Hon. Sir Fishface Broglace MP.

[Panda]

Hi again Panda

I suppose anything could happen these days - but it's bloody difficult to believe that a patient could be fitted up simply on the say so of an individual doctor. I know members of a group tend to support other members, but I thought life changing decisions like you suggest would need sign off by more than one medic?

If you would consider a spot of advice in your dealings with bureaucracy?  You can be really quite plain speaking whilst appearing to be polite and gracious y'know. If, purely as an example, I was to write to the Chief Exec of my loval Trust about the effing useless mental health service his Trust provides, I'd think about something like this....

Dear Mr XXXX

I am writing to you to seek resolution to difficulties I am having. I appreciate that time will be a very precious resource for you so I have appended details of the siituation at Appendix 1. For your immediate information I will simply say that my partner has attempted suicide 4 times, once very nearly succesfully, my son and I have scoured the internet, the county and the Health Trust for support. Yet none has been forthcoming, I understand that mental health is a low priority for the goverrnment and that funding is therefore minimal.

I would like to suggest that either:

1) we jointly make public the case for increased funding and support, or
2) we jointly agree a pathway designed to ensure that my partner receives appropriate help

I look forward to your reply Mr Xxxxx.

Yours sincerely


CC: Rt Hon. Sir Fishface Broglace MP.

That letter is far too polite Bob!  In comparison to the ones i've sent to the CEO of my local Trust anyway. I've accused him of being inept and contributing to the deaths of many people by unresponsive and inflexible management lol. I'm amazed he's not arranged to have me carted away yet!  Thing is, i am right and i have to stick to my principles with this because these cretins are being paid astronomical sums of money whilst families are being ripped apart and people are losing their lives because of poor management and a frightening lack of empathy and compassion.

I'm surprised at the decision of one medic being able to arrange for sectioning though. I know during Covid this was allowed but now, someone in a crisis has to be seen by 2 separate doctors on separate occasions at least 5 days apart to be able to apply for someone to be sectioned.

Anyway, in my case, due to my relationship with my local Trust breaking down i emailed a neighbouring NHS Trust to ask to be referred to them as an out of area patient for community mental health team. They told me to ask my GP to be referred, which i did.

A month later i get an email from that Trust saying they can't accept the referral as i'm an out of area patient!!

I f**king already told them this in my first email!! Nobody said at the time that i wasn't eligible. Inept tossers.

Anyway, after putting in a complaint about staff at that Trust being inept, i contacted the Lincolnshire CCG which is now the Integrated Care Board. (More cash wasted on needless rebranding). I have done my research and it is my legal right to access non urgent consultant led NHS mental health treatment in any area of England.

Just as if i had a hernia i could go to any NHS hospital in England to have it done, if i have a mental health problem then according to the NHS Choices Framework and NHS Improvement, i also have legal right to access mental health treatment in any area too.

They are now investigating for me to see if i'm right because they are so dumb they don't even know the legislation that they are obliged to adhere to!

I am currently awaiting a phone call but they will be facing my wrath once they discover they are wrong and i'm right lol.

Just another hurdle placed in my way to put me off getting access to help. This time, a breach of the law. NHS mental health trusts really are a law unto themselves.

[Panda]

Another really difficult issue to overcome is that of resentment, holding a grudge, wanting revenge or accountability. These are strong emotions that i pretty much live with and struggle to deal with every day.

I've often wondered how somebody who has been the victim of a horrendous crime at the hands of someone else or someone who has had family members killed by others are able to function and get on with their lives without it all being soured and filled with hatred. How is this possible?

Take the innocent kids who were the victims of those vile Rotherham grooming gangs. How are they able to grow up with that trauma and knowing what they know without being able to get any accountability or punish those responsible? How do they even begin to deal with this?

Take someone whose kids have been killed in a car accident caused by a drink driver who gets a 2 year sentence. How do they even manage to live their lives without being consumed by revenge, hatred, anger and all these negative emotions? How do they reach acceptance of what is without going crazy?

I admire these people as they have some inner quality that i don't know if i have but if i do i am not mature enough to bring it to the fore. I'm not saying that my life has been touched by the same level of tragedy. I was using those as examples but the basic premise that someone through incompetence, selfishness or just pure evil causes you a significant trauma or negative outcome in life is one which i encounter a lot and so the hostility for people and the distrust and anger just build and build.

Again, there is no help for this from mental health services although there are numerous online articles about acceptance and dealing with this stuff but i guess if i actually met someone who had suffered horrendously as a result of someones actions but who still has purpose in life and compassion for others still, then i'd probably be in awe and that would maybe finally switch off my desire to get accountability. Like from useless NHS managers who are killing folk for example.

Forgiveness is the ultimate in acceptance.

[Panda]

I saw that previous post of yours Knockers and it was completely out of order, insensitive and unnecessary.

This was a thread about opening up about feelings and thoughts and sharing difficulties but having seen your post that seems to now disappeared, it goes somewhere to reinforcing my view that most people aren't f**king well worth bothering with!

Close the thread mods if you wish. I'm done with it.

Thanks to (most of) those who have contributed on here and i will remember who you are and try my very best to treat you with the respect you deserve whilst using this board. I wish you all the best, those of you experiencing difficulties.

[knockers]

I wrote it and pulled it so as not to get into an exchange with you. You’ve destroyed a thread about a issue that affects many people and the thread had people opening up which was great. Unfortunately you’ve turned it into a rant about your issues with the NHS and it’s painful to read and will stop people using the thread as I believe you intended it to be used which was to help people in a similar situation to the one that you find yourself in.
For the record my view of the NHS is a more positive one. My GP helped me with my issues and I received the counselling that I required at the time.
They have saved my fathers life twice with one of those being after he was on life support for three weeks.
They saved my brothers hand after an accident at work.
They put me back together when I had a very nasty road collision spending nine weeks in DRI.
They also give a good wage to the majority of my family and friends.
I have every sympathy with your current situation but sometimes you really spoil yourself with ridiculous rants.

[BahrainRover]

It's a shame it has gone this way. Knockers is correct it was starting to get people to open up, myself included. This thread could have had a massive positive knock on effect, in the fact it gets people to open up without the fear of facing another person to do so. This could have then helped that person to go find the actual help they need, and turn their lives around for the better. I for one are happy for it to carry on or start a different thread, as long as it does not disappear down the usual political rant road most threads on here turn in to by many. If this thread helps just one person out then it has succeeded.
.

[BobG]

My letter might be too polite for you Panda, but is that, or your aggression likely to get more attention? My letter contains two very, very serious implied threats. T also demonstrates intelligence, experience and a knowledge of how to make things happen. It may jnot get the result that we hope for, but it will definitely get a helluva lot more attention and thought than the sort of diatribe you seem to be suggesting.

BobG