truss

[SydneyRover]

When I saw the headline this morning Crashed and Burned ..................

[SydneyRover]

''Business Secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg has said Liz Truss is "a very good prime minister" and she should "absolutely not" resign''

This should calm the markets and give everyone confidence.

[mugnapper]

Where do our Tory Supporters stand on what’s gone off?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Christ that interview with Truss on the BBC.

Q: Will you lead the Conservatives into the next Election?

A.

I

Will

Lead

The

Conservatives

Into

The

Next

Election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That interview was just surreal.

"I got elected on a plan to burn the house down. People told me it would burn the house down. I implemented it and the house caught fire.

"I have learned from that and I'm sorry. The most important thing is that we don't burn the house down again and I am absolutely determined not to burn the house down again."

This is the PM of the UK. How in God's name did we end up here?

[SydneyRover]

''How Liz Truss won the Conservative leadership race''

The BBC provided an easy push button list of the big issues, it's worth looking at the bullet points on the topics online to see what she said.

Cost of living
Tax & spending
Climate
Brexit
Health & social care
Education
Housing

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60037657

[SydneyRover]

Where do our Tory Supporters stand on what’s gone off?

''As they seek any glimmer of light in the gathering gloom, you can hear some Tories gloating over the misery that Labour will inherit. A Sunday Times editorial even suggests that going for an election “would be more strategically astute for the Conservatives to let Labour confront the economic challenges of the next few years”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/17/hunt-uk-services-nhs

Have a look at recent comments MN.

[tyke1962]

 Keith needs to box clever here with austerity getting rolled out because there's a Tory trap he could very well fall in to .

Setting yourself up as the new safe pair of hands with the economy is fine but with the country skint , borrowing to be expensive he's going to be pinned down by the Tories on how he proposes to pay to get us out of this .

If he's against austerity which I believe he will be then he needs to credibly fund his programme .

Just because the Tories have tanked the economy doesn't mean Labour will be allowed to spend spend spend in the current climate and they will frame it so .

[wilts rover]

Totally the wrong message to be giving out tyke. The country isn't skint and it wasn't skint under Cameron and Osborne. That's the message that people who want to be cutting services that ordinary people and the very poorest use.

It has the wrong redistriburative tax system and allows too many people to avoid paying a fair/or any tax. It priorises the wrong industry, financial services based mostly in the City of London, above anything else.

A wealth tax, a higher top income tax rate, a change in inheritence tax rules, scrap the tax free golden visa, clamp down on tax evasion and the programme to invest in new green power and associated industries. That's pretty much the programme.

But don't fall into their trap. The country is not skint just because the Tories have handled the economy castrophically badly. We shoudn't be paying for their mistakes.

[SydneyRover]

I think of EU countries only Bulgaria has a less fair split of wealth than the UK

[SydneyRover]

Heappey has covered himself and the cabinet in something today, not sure it's glory.

[tyke1962]

Totally the wrong message to be giving out tyke. The country isn't skint and it wasn't skint under Cameron and Osborne. That's the message that people who want to be cutting services that ordinary people and the very poorest use.

It has the wrong redistriburative tax system and allows too many people to avoid paying a fair/or any tax. It priorises the wrong industry, financial services based mostly in the City of London, above anything else.

A wealth tax, a higher top income tax rate, a change in inheritence tax rules, scrap the tax free golden visa, clamp down on tax evasion and the programme to invest in new green power and associated industries. That's pretty much the programme.

But don't fall into their trap. The country is not skint just because the Tories have handled the economy castrophically badly. We shoudn't be paying for their mistakes.

It's not so much as falling in to a trap,  it's finding the credible information on the state of the UK economy that's the issue .

I read people such as Richard Murphy and watch  Gary Stevenson's channel on YouTube and whilst both lean massively to the left both have different views on QE and borrowing .

I don't know what to think anymore to be honest but then again is it deliberately set up this way ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

If you want to follow someone who explains economics very clearly, and who has been right on just about everything for the past two decades, I can't recommend anyone more than Prof Simon Wren-Lewis at Oxford Uni. The man ought to be given the freedom of the land - if anyone in Govt had listened to him over the past decade, we'd be in a far better position now.

Gordon Brown listened to him 20 years ago - Wren-Lewis set out the argument against going into the Euro when Blair was all for it. Convincing Brown to say No was a massive success - we'd have been screwed after the GFC if we'd been in the Euro.

His blog over the past 11 years is here. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/

[BobG]

 Let me give you an example of what is wrong with the tax system in this country. Let's say I am a small business person. I have my own company. Its turnover isn't great, but I get by.

Now. I am the sole shareholder. But I've just realised that my wife, who doesn't work, is a tremendously useful asset. If I give her one share she is then automatically entitled to a thousand quid a year completely tax free as dividend on her one share.  I'm  entitled to that too of course. Thank you George Osborne. Dividends are paid out of post tax profit so doing this will not change anything in the Company accounts. But if I make my wife a director of my little company, nominally of course,  we can withdraw £12,500 a year not only tax free to her by using her tax free allowance, but also avoid the company paying 20% corporation tax on that £12,500 a year too. So I've  just avoided £15 grand a year of tax. But that's not the end of it! My 2 or or 3 or 20 children, as soon they become 16 can all be appointed as directors too! Lovely, lovely money! Not only no income tax but no corporation tax too!

These "perks' have been introduced over the years  by Conservative governments. I view them as bribes. Bribes to encourage those most likely to vote Conservative to continue doing so. The silly sods on PAYE can pay for stuff we plutocrats don't want and don't need like the NHS and mental health care. And just to make sure we plutocrats can continue to enjoy our wealth, we'll organise periodic scares about those horrible, feckless benefit scroungers.

Middle class tax evasión is fifty times the size of benefit scrounging.....

BobG

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

If you want to follow someone who explains economics very clearly, and who has been right on just about everything for the past two decades, I can't recommend anyone more than Prof Simon Wren-Lewis at Oxford Uni. The man ought to be given the freedom of the land - if anyone in Govt had listened to him over the past decade, we'd be in a far better position now.

Gordon Brown listened to him 20 years ago - Wren-Lewis set out the argument against going into the Euro when Blair was all for it. Convincing Brown to say No was a massive success - we'd have been screwed after the GFC if we'd been in the Euro.

His blog over the past 11 years is here. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/

Thanks for that Billy I'll give it a butchers

[tommy toes]

Interesting reading a part of the Wren-Lewis blog, where he was saying that the way to growth and prosperity for any country
was not by making the rich richer, but by raising up the poorest in society.

I'm currently re-reading John Bew's biography of my hero Clement Atlee.
Well back in 1906 Clem, his brother Tom and George Lansbury were working as Social Workers in Limehouse and were musing about the slow demise of the Empire and after much research published a pamphlet which came to the same conclusion as Wren-Lewis.

115 years ago eh, and the Tories still haven't learned.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's why the likes of the IEA exist Tommy.

The centre/left won the argument in the middle of the 20th century, all round the world. Massive inequality had led to economic collapse and war in the first 40 years. Keynesian economics and a tax and spend system that levelled out inequalities also levelled up everyone.

Everyone except the very rich. They lost out. We had 30 years of unprecedent stable growth and rising living standards for working people.

The IEA was founded in the 60s as a reaction to that. To re-establish a strong mouthpiece for laissez-faire right wing market economics.

And they won. Not in terms of their analysis being right. They won because they provided Thatcher and the ones further to the right who followed her with what sounded like a coherent theory. And they hammered it and they still hammer it through the Press and through BBC programmes.
 

And you end up with a PM like Truss who is so embedded with the IEA, she implements their policies in the most extreme, loony form. And we've seen what has happened.

The IEA has been wrong at every step.

Wrong when it pressed Thatcher to cut Govt spending in the 81 recession.

Wrong when they egged on Lawson to cut taxes in 88.

Wrong when they were the standard bearers for Austerity in 2010.

Wrong when they screamed how good Brexit would be.

Every time they've hurt the overall economy. But every time, they've pushed to make sure the richest were protected.

I don't use the word "evil" often, but that organisation IS  evil. It exists to make sure the rivh and wealthy keep a stranglehold on our national debate, for their own ends. Labour should take it down when they win in 24, for the disasters it has visited on us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If they weren't dragging the country into the biggest self imposed economic disaster in a century, it'd be quite a laugh watching the Tories make themselves unelectable for a generation.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Samfr/status/1582482042905772033

I'm firming up on the idea that Truss is a long term sleeper agent with a mission to destroy the party.

[SydneyRover]

What just happened - in a nutshell:

''Mini-budget scrapped: A simple guide to why plan was dropped''

''The government has scrapped most of the key elements of its mini-budget after just over two weeks - but why did it have to respond to the turmoil in the financial markets and why does this matter to mortgage payers and everyone else?''

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63299483

[ravenrover]

But but but she said she is sorry, so what's the problem?

[mugnapper]

But but but she said she is sorry, so what's the problem?

The mantra at PMQ'S will be 'Mistakes were made' but there are mistakes and there are MISTAKES.
I accidentally left the freezer door open and we had to chuck some food away. That was a mistake but forgivable.
She came up with some hair brained scheme to create Growth x 3 and crashed the flipping economy which will take years to rectify and cost people billions. That is a MISTAKE but unforgivable.
There is no way back for her.

[Filo]

But but but she said she is sorry, so what's the problem?

The mantra at PMQ'S will be 'Mistakes were made' but there are mistakes and there are MISTAKES.
I accidentally left the freezer door open and we had to chuck some food away. That was a mistake but forgivable.
She came up with some hair brained scheme to create Growth x 3 and crashed the flipping economy which will take years to rectify and cost people billions. That is a MISTAKE but unforgivable.
There is no way back for her.

It’s not a mistake when numerous experts warned her what would happen and she just ignored them

[i_ateallthepies]

I won't go so far as to say it was intentional but they would have known full well that the near-certain effect would be the one that happened.  Nevertheless, they pressed on regardless because even allowing for having to reverse it after a couple of weeks it had the desired effect of putting vast amounts of money directly into the pockets of their cronies.  Job done.
The conservative party is nothing but a set of despicable, self serving bas**rds.  And those who continue to support them (and those who aren't Tories but daren't say anything to condemn them)... well

[mugnapper]

So she's committed to the Pension Triple Lock when Hunt didn't commit 2 days ago. More trouble in Paradise? Perhaps not in 'lockstep'?

[mugnapper]

She's back under her desk again. Cancelled a visit to an electronics company after which she was supposed to face Journo's questions

[BobG]

And still not a bleeding word about funding the NHS and mental health. Of course, plutocrats won't need public services will they....

BobG

[Dutch Uncle]

Thought this was cruel but funny:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1582627610466533377

[tyke1962]

Braverman gone as Home Secretary which is no bad thing but wait for it ........ Grant Schapps has got the gig .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Braverman gone as Home Secretary which is no bad thing but wait for it ........ Grant Schapps has got the gig .

Unreal.

In power, sorry, office for 44 days and she's already lost 2 of the 3 big appointments.

This decision was mad by Hunt apparently. Which says everything.

Did you hear Braverman in the House yesterday? She sounded truly deranged ranting about the "tofu eating wokerati". The woman is a true swivel-eyed headbanger.

[tommy toes]

Put her on a plane to Rwanda.