Electrification of the world???

[SydneyRover]

Not quite but it's a start .............

''Certified 'genius' Saul Griffith has a plan to decarbonise Australia — and it will only take 101 million machines''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-22/how-to-decarbonise-by-replacing-101-million-machines/101453956

[i_ateallthepies]

Wow! that's really clever.  So, to achieve this we melt everything down and re-manufacture it to make it electrical.  Accelerating the burning of fossil fuels whilst we do it?  The Genius needs certifying.

[SydneyRover]

At end of life pies!

[Superspy]

Seems like a sensible start as you say - but as with lots of stuff like this it would likely need heavy government involvement/subsidisation.
 
In the same way that people don't start particularly caring about charity until they earn X amount (because they're more concerned with feeding themselves than others) I expect the same when it comes to carbon footprint...most won't care about the environment if they can't afford to care about it because the alternative is cheaper - gas heating being a great example, far cheaper to run than an electric boiler.

I'm fortunate enough that I've been able to afford to have solar panels fitted a week ago - but if I said I did it for the carbon reduction I'd be lying, I've done it to save myself money over the long term. Give people ways of saving money AND caring about the environment at the same time and it'll be a much easier path to success.

[Filo]

Seems like a sensible start as you say - but as with lots of stuff like this it would likely need heavy government involvement/subsidisation.
 
In the same way that people don't start particularly caring about charity until they earn X amount (because they're more concerned with feeding themselves than others) I expect the same when it comes to carbon footprint...most won't care about the environment if they can't afford to care about it because the alternative is cheaper - gas heating being a great example, far cheaper to run than an electric boiler.

I'm fortunate enough that I've been able to afford to have solar panels fitted a week ago - but if I said I did it for the carbon reduction I'd be lying, I've done it to save myself money over the long term. Give people ways of saving money AND caring about the environment at the same time and it'll be a much easier path to success.

How long do you estimate your panels will take to pay for themselves with the savings you make on your electricity bills?

I think the feed in tariff to the National Grid is around 6p kWh, which doesn’t pay back much after your own usage. If I were 20 years younger I would probably consider Solar, but from what I can see its hardly worth it at my age

[drfchound]

Seems like a sensible start as you say - but as with lots of stuff like this it would likely need heavy government involvement/subsidisation.
 
In the same way that people don't start particularly caring about charity until they earn X amount (because they're more concerned with feeding themselves than others) I expect the same when it comes to carbon footprint...most won't care about the environment if they can't afford to care about it because the alternative is cheaper - gas heating being a great example, far cheaper to run than an electric boiler.

I'm fortunate enough that I've been able to afford to have solar panels fitted a week ago - but if I said I did it for the carbon reduction I'd be lying, I've done it to save myself money over the long term. Give people ways of saving money AND caring about the environment at the same time and it'll be a much easier path to success.

How long do you estimate your panels will take to pay for themselves with the savings you make on your electricity bills?

I think the feed in tariff to the National Grid is around 6p kWh, which doesn’t pay back much after your own usage. If I were 20 years younger I would probably consider Solar, but from what I can see its hardly worth it at my age

I think the payback time will be reduced this year over what it has been in the past.
If gas prices keep on increasing then the payback time will become even shorter.
I am going down the route of solar plus ditching the gas boiler and upgrading to air source heating.

[Superspy]

It's a tricky one because there are so many factors. Technically the 'feed in tariff' isn't a thing now, it's now the 'smart export gaurantee' - where you get paid only for what you send back to the grid, and not based on what you generate (as used to be the case). Most utility providers are 6p kWh or less, but Octopus have just increased theirs to 15p (I'll be calling them later) which is really good...but still nowhere near as good as using the energy yourself.

Usually I think they predict systems will pay themselves off in about 7 years if they're south facing with no shade, but mine is predicted to take 8-9 because my system is split between East and West facing sides of the roof. There are a lot of assumptions that go into that though, and this is where sometimes the process can feel a bit salesy and put people off.

The 2 biggest assumptions are:
- Energy price inflation of 8% per year, from a starting point of 29p per unit
- That I'll use 70% of what I generate and send the rest back to the grid

The long term energy inflation over the last decade (before the current crisis) was 5%....but obviously with unit prices going up from 27p to 33p in a couple of weeks there's a couple of years of inflation straight off the bat. I also work from home and have had a battery fitted with the system so I'm in a position to change my behaviours to try and use more than the 70% estimate (I'm at 78% usage in the first week).
I'll be doing everything I can to get the system to pay itself off as quickly as possible, but it really is a tool to be managed.

I feel for the people who are quoted these figures and don't work from home during the day (when most of the power is generated) and DON'T get a battery fitted because there's no way those systems are paying themselves back as quickly as the salespeople suggest.

[Filo]

What is the life expectation of your battery and how much do they cost

[Superspy]

Not entirely sure on the lifespan but they come with a 10 year guarantee.
Costs vary wildly depending on installer and whether you have the installed at the same time as the rest of the system etc.

I've gone for 3 x 3.2kW batts that were about £1150 each with no VAT when included in the system (I think).
They're these ones (I didn't buy from here though).

https://homeenergygroup.co.uk/lux-ac-battery-storage-greenlinx/

Since my last post I've just called Octopus and switched my supply to them. Moving onto an Economy 7 tariff so I can charge the batteries cheaper at night in winter, and going onto their Agile export tariff where they've been paying between 17p and 43p per unit over the last couple of days (but it can drop lower). 

[albie]

Impartial info for the UK here;
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/solar-panels/

Electricity costs are artificially high at the moment, but this is likely to change.

The battery comes into its own if you want to use daylight gains in the evening.
I would have a look at your daytime comsumption, what proportion of your usage it makes up.

[Superspy]

Definitely agree with Albie in terms of the battery and when you consume (hence my comment earlier about people who are out of the house all day and don't fit batteries)...we're shifting our usage around to make better use of it when the sun is shining.

[albie]

Octopus doubling payments for solar exports;
https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/09/21/octopus-doubles-payments-for-homes-exporting-solar-power/

Good time to have signed up, Superspy!

[Superspy]

Yeah that's one of the reasons why I wanted to get on the blower to them today.
I'm moving onto their Agile Outgoing rather than their fixed rate one though as while wholesale prices are this high, their export prices are too.
For example, on this page (https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export-yorkshire/) you can see they pay more between 4pm and 8pm than it actually costs to import from them. In other words, if I force my battery to discharge at those times I'll earn more than it costs me to buy the energy back when I need it.

[drfchound]

Octopus doubling payments for solar exports;
https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/09/21/octopus-doubles-payments-for-homes-exporting-solar-power/

Good time to have signed up, Superspy!

I’m already with Octopus so I will also take advantage when my installation is completed.
The air source heating installation is getting a £5000 grant from the government right now too.

[albie]

Ferrybridge is to be back up and running in 2024 as a green hub;
https://www.energylivenews.com/2023/05/12/coal-power-station-turned-into-150mw-battery-storage-system/

Swords into ploughshares, or something similar!

[Nudga]

Air source heat pumps are shite. So many of my customers have had woodburners installed because the heat pumps are costly to run and don't provide enough heat.

[Superspy]

Ferrybridge is to be back up and running in 2024 as a green hub;
https://www.energylivenews.com/2023/05/12/coal-power-station-turned-into-150mw-battery-storage-system/

Swords into ploughshares, or something similar!

Cool.

Good reading this thread back from when I started with the panels back in September - and seeing how quickly things move. I'm up to 22p a kWh export on Octopus Flux now.