Rishi Sunak

[les@donr]

Members of the ERG group could also be a problem for Rishi. They might argue that Rishi's policies are not in line with their extreme views and would vote against his Fiscal Autumn Statement. This group plus the Red Tories could bring down Rishi's Govt and trigger a GE.

[tyke1962]

Members of the ERG group could also be a problem for Rishi. They might argue that Rishi's policies are not in line with their extreme views and would vote against his Fiscal Autumn Statement. This group plus the Red Tories could bring down Rishi's Govt and trigger a GE.

Rees Mogg's EU Withdrawal Act could also be a major factor in the health of the Tory Party .

[tyke1962]

Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.

They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.

You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .

Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?

And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.

So we've gone from no way on earth welcomed in to the Labour Party to Different Time when  one did cross the house .

So basically if it suits Labour politically to do so they would but not if they are ahead in the polls and a government on the brink .

Or to put it another way it doesn't matter that the Labour Party disagree with almost everything with  the Red Tories but if the polls start narrowing they would .

Not much better than the other lot really are you ?

[SydneyRover]

I look forward to you announcing the perfect party tyke with a membership of 1

[drfchound]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.

They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.

You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .

Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?

And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.

So we've gone from no way on earth welcomed in to the Labour Party to Different Time when  one did cross the house .

So basically if it suits Labour politically to do so they would but not if they are ahead in the polls and a government on the brink .

Or to put it another way it doesn't matter that the Labour Party disagree with almost everything with  the Red Tories but if the polls start narrowing they would .

Not much better than the other lot really are you ?

Do I need to explain? Really?

Ok.

Labour needs to win the Red Wall seats back if they are going to win a majority.

In January, Labour had been behind in the polls throughout 2021. Then partygate broke. They had Johnson on the back foot.

Having a Red Wall Tory cross the House emphasised the disgust that so many people had for Johnson.

Did I like that? No, of course not. I think the Red Wall Tories are a bunch of amoral chancers. I'd prefer for every Red Wall Tory to be smashed in an election and crawl back to where er they came from in 2019.

 But like I say,  politics is not a perfect application of absolute principles. Politics is pointless if you don't win. That's the main difference between you and me. You think stick absolutely to your principles is the most important thing. Even if it gives a free pass to people who REALLY aren't on your side.

Now of course, things have changed. Labour is 25% ahead in the polls. There is nothing to be gained for Labour now  by using a Red Wall Tory chancer who wanted to cross the House to help his career.

I honestly can't believe you really needed that spelling out.

But you got a like from Hound, so that's nice for you.

[i_ateallthepies]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

[tyke1962]

Absolutely no way on earth are Labour accepting Red Wall Tory defectors.

They are dead men walking at the next election. There's no way on earth they would be welcomed into the Labour party as prospective Labour candidates at the next election.

You accepted Bury South MP Christian Wakeford no problem .

Different time Tyke. Have you been looking at the positions of the two parties in the polls?

And yes, before you come back, politics IS a grubby business. There's this complicating factor that the Left have never quite got. You have to win before you can have any influence.

So we've gone from no way on earth welcomed in to the Labour Party to Different Time when  one did cross the house .

So basically if it suits Labour politically to do so they would but not if they are ahead in the polls and a government on the brink .

Or to put it another way it doesn't matter that the Labour Party disagree with almost everything with  the Red Tories but if the polls start narrowing they would .

Not much better than the other lot really are you ?

Do I need to explain? Really?

Ok.

Labour needs to win the Red Wall seats back if they are going to win a majority.

In January, Labour had been behind in the polls throughout 2021. Then partygate broke. They had Johnson on the back foot.

Having a Red Wall Tory cross the House emphasised the disgust that so many people had for Johnson.

Did I like that? No, of course not. I think the Red Wall Tories are a bunch of amoral chancers. I'd prefer for every Red Wall Tory to be smashed in an election and crawl back to where er they came from in 2019.

 But like I say,  politics is not a perfect application of absolute principles. Politics is pointless if you don't win. That's the main difference between you and me. You think stick absolutely to your principles is the most important thing. Even if it gives a free pass to people who REALLY aren't on your side.

Now of course, things have changed. Labour is 25% ahead in the polls. There is nothing to be gained for Labour now  by using a Red Wall Tory chancer who wanted to cross the House to help his career.

I honestly can't believe you really needed that spelling out.

But you got a like from Hound, so that's nice for you.

If there is no principle in the attainment of power  then there is no truth .

[tommy toes]

You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.

[tyke1962]

You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.

You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .

[SydneyRover]

Like brexit then tyke?

[tommy toes]

You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.

You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .

I don't forget mine either tyke and spend a lot of my free time serving my community.

This evening we're putting on a free Halloween disco for local kids. I'm
cooking and serving the free food.

I deliver free food every Thursday to those struggling to manage.

Next week we're doing a free firework display and loads of entertainment for the kids.
I'll be supervising the bouncy castles and craft stall.

Early December  we're putting on a free Christmas lunch for local pensioners.
Me and MrsT are buying all the free quality raffle prizes.

That's just some of the things we do, among many others throughout the year.
We do this, in part, so we can ask people to continue to support their local LABOUR Parish Council and vote Labour when the time comes.

[ChrisBx]

A big story in the Mail tonight. Prior to her becoming PM, Liz Truss' phone was hacked by Russia. This was covered up by Johnson and Case to avoid it damaging Truss' leadership bid.

Case remains the Cabinet Secretary.

[drfchound]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.

[belton rover]

You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.

You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .

I don't forget mine either tyke and spend a lot of my free time serving my community.

This evening we're putting on a free Halloween disco for local kids. I'm
cooking and serving the free food.

I deliver free food every Thursday to those struggling to manage.

Next week we're doing a free firework display and loads of entertainment for the kids.
I'll be supervising the bouncy castles and craft stall.

Early December  we're putting on a free Christmas lunch for local pensioners.
Me and MrsT are buying all the free quality raffle prizes.

That's just some of the things we do, among many others throughout the year.
We do this, in part, so we can ask people to continue to support their local LABOUR Parish Council and vote Labour when the time comes.

All very commendable, Tommy.
What would you do if a very needy family, from your local parish, expressed their commitment to and belief in, the Conservative party, but still wanted to benefit from your wonderful charity work?

[tommy toes]

I was replying to tyke, who was on about forgetting principles and objectives, which I don't.
I act on them.
As for you.... Do one.
Only a rabid Tory would ask a question like that.

[i_ateallthepies]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.

No, Hound.  I haven't attacked you.  Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile.  You are kidding only yourself.

[wilts rover]

You stick to your principles then tyke, see where that gets you.

You too Tommy given Failure Only Comes When We Forget Our Ideals , Objectives And Principles .

I don't forget mine either tyke and spend a lot of my free time serving my community.

This evening we're putting on a free Halloween disco for local kids. I'm
cooking and serving the free food.

I deliver free food every Thursday to those struggling to manage.

Next week we're doing a free firework display and loads of entertainment for the kids.
I'll be supervising the bouncy castles and craft stall.

Early December  we're putting on a free Christmas lunch for local pensioners.
Me and MrsT are buying all the free quality raffle prizes.

That's just some of the things we do, among many others throughout the year.
We do this, in part, so we can ask people to continue to support their local LABOUR Parish Council and vote Labour when the time comes.

All very commendable, Tommy.
What would you do if a very needy family, from your local parish, expressed their commitment to and belief in, the Conservative party, but still wanted to benefit from your wonderful charity work?

I'm not quite sure that attendence at a fireworks event, kid's disco or application for a food delivery is the same as dishing out PPE contracts - in that you only get them if you are connected to a particular political party - but happy to be corrected on this.

[scawsby steve]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.

No, Hound.  I haven't attacked you.  Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile.  You are kidding only yourself.

ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.

As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.

[belton rover]

I was replying to tyke, who was on about forgetting principles and objectives, which I don't.
I act on them.
As for you.... Do one.
Only a rabid Tory would ask a question like that.

It was a perfectly reasonable question in view of you stating the reasons, in part, why you do your fantastic work for charidee, but don’t like to talk about it.

There was no need to attack me.

And for the record, yet again, I have only ever voted Labour, despite you and others doing more harm than good for the Labour cause.

[drfchound]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.

No, Hound.  I haven't attacked you.  Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile.  You are kidding only yourself.

ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.

As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.

Thanks for the support there SS.
Pies probably doesn’t think that him calling me a hypocrite is “attacking the poster”.
Perhaps if I was a Labour voter he wouldn’t have said anything.

[Ldr]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.

No, Hound.  I haven't attacked you.  Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile.  You are kidding only yourself.

ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.

As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.

Seconded

[belton rover]

Attack the poster, not the subject then?

Crikey, Hound.  Your Master won't like that one... hypocrisy of the highest order.

Of course you haven’t just done the same thing have you.

No, Hound.  I haven't attacked you.  Only pointed out your gross hypocrisy and will continue to do so whilst ever you persist in attacking the poster instead of debating the subject.
You continue to put on display to all on here your hypocrisy and bile.  You are kidding only yourself.

ALL on here? Hound is well liked and respected by many people in the South Stand, as a Rovers supporter and ex-player.

As regards this forum, I've never known him throw insults out at anyone, the way many on here did over the Brexit vote.

Thanks for the support there SS.
Pies probably doesn’t think that him calling me a hypocrite is “attacking the poster”.
Perhaps if I was a Labour voter he wouldn’t have said anything.

I wouldn’t be too sure about that, Hound. Unfortunately, some people’s ignorance is so great that if they take a dislike to you, then you cannot possibly be a Labour supporter, despite the facts that say otherwise.

It’s a dangerous thought process.

[tommy toes]

I was replying to tyke, who was on about forgetting principles and objectives, which I don't.
I act on them.
As for you.... Do one.
Only a rabid Tory would ask a question like that.

It was a perfectly reasonable question in view of you stating the reasons, in part, why you do your fantastic work for charidee, but don’t like to talk about it.

There was no need to attack me.

And for the record, yet again, I have only ever voted Labour, despite you and others doing more harm than good for the Labour cause.

I was refuting tykes post to me to point out that by doing what I do I'm not forgetting my principles.
Why you needed to come in with your lousy sarcasm I've no idea.
By the way it's not charity. It's mainly providing things to do for local people.

That's my last reply to you,on this subject or any other.

[belton rover]

Okay, Tommy. That’s a shame, but at least you won’t incorrectly accuse me of being a rabid Tory, or any other kind of Tory, again, so it’s not all bad.

[tyke1962]

I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .

I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .

[Bristol Red Rover]

Any red tory is in it for themselves. Just on that, they fail on the most basic requirement for being in the Labour Party. That's not to say that many current Lab MPs are in it for themselves too.

Ideals are important. There can be a trading on that to some degree, but it's a toxic path to take, each sip from that cup taking someone further towards the dark side,  and usually still believing they haven't lost their purpose.

[wilts rover]

I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .

I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .

Hound has said who he voted for in the past and it wasn't the Tories.

I like to think of him as our resident Andrew Neil. He asks the most pedantic, contrary, misleading and badly referenced questions on the forum that I am sure not even he believes fully.

But if you can't answer him in a respectful and accurate manner then you probably need to rethink your argument and know your subject better. Because its your response that's leting you down - not hound's questions.

[SydneyRover]

I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .

I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .

Hound has said who he voted for in the past and it wasn't the Tories.

I like to think of him as our resident Andrew Neil. He asks the most pedantic, contrary, misleading and badly referenced questions on the forum that I am sure not even he believes fully.

But if you can't answer him in a respectful and accurate manner then you probably need to rethink your argument and know your subject better. Because its your response that's leting you down - not hound's questions.

Together with your prognosis of being argumentative too, it's certainly an interesting case wilts, where on the spectrum do you think he sits?

[wilts rover]

I think Hound isn't politically invested in any party and to my mind that's no bad thing and allows himself to see both sides of a debate .

I don't understand the vitriol towards him at all .

Hound has said who he voted for in the past and it wasn't the Tories.

I like to think of him as our resident Andrew Neil. He asks the most pedantic, contrary, misleading and badly referenced questions on the forum that I am sure not even he believes fully.

But if you can't answer him in a respectful and accurate manner then you probably need to rethink your argument and know your subject better. Because its your response that's leting you down - not hound's questions.

Together with your prognosis of being argumentative too, it's certainly an interesting case wilts, where on the spectrum do you think he sits?

I personally find hound one of the most interesting posters on the forum Syd and always enjoy debating with him. I hope hound does with me too.

So we are probably somewhere similar or adjacent to one another on the spectrum!