Rishi Sunak

[tyke1962]

At least Coffey has landed a job that should appeal to her .

Minister For Food .

 

[belton rover]

Integrity? From the man who received a fine for breaking lockdown rules. Painting over history methinks

Youthinks incorrectly. The country has moved on.

[ravenrover]

Same old, same old. Out of 350+ Tory MPs are there none better than this shower he has put into post?

[grayx]

Same old, same old. Out of 350+ Tory MPs are there none better than this shower he has put into post?

All part of the deal with boris at the weekend.
I’ll drop out the leadership contest, you give all my old pals good positions & maybe theyl buy me a pint for my trouble.
This will be the integrity that Rishi’s bleating on about

[Bristol Red Rover]

Integrity? From the man who received a fine for breaking lockdown rules. Painting over history methinks

Youthinks incorrectly. The country has moved on.

Nope. At best for him, it's a very easy shot ready to be lined up at an election. He's doomed.

[River Don]

This takes the biscuit, the BBC accidentally screened a 'cloud' of words which the public used to describe Prime Minister Rishi Sunak online, but failed to spot it included c*** and t***!

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's a very simple problem for Sunak


The Tories lost the degree educated urban voters over the past generation. They still have the Home Counties golf club bore set, and they still for some unfathomable reason have a big chunk of the over 65s.

But that's nowhere near enough to win a majority.

Johnson understood that and that's precisely why he reached out to the post-Industrial, relatively low skilled, low education level working class. He played on the split between them and the more prosperous left of centre urbanites.

That's gone now. It needs a showman to get those people to be prepared to vote Tory. Hearing Braverman ranting like an unhinged maniac about the Tofu eating wokerati won't cut it.

And what is Sunak's offering to those people?Yet more grinding Austerity. That ain't going to win them back.

I just don't see how Sunak builds a voting group that gets the Tories anywhere near a majority. 

[belton rover]

It’s not simple though, is it, Billy?
Sunak relishes on people like you who ‘don’t see how’.

Starmer hasn’t been able to ‘see how’ for three years.

You (we) need to come up with something different.

[SydneyRover]

Not sure you'd know with your head into GB News tyke

I have my head on this board most nights  but I don't support Donny Rovers .

Keep em coming Syd .

 

You provide them all yourself tykey I just hold up the mirror

[ncRover]

There's a very simple problem for Sunak


The Tories lost the degree educated urban voters over the past generation. They still have the Home Counties golf club bore set, and they still for some unfathomable reason have a big chunk of the over 65s.

But that's nowhere near enough to win a majority.

Johnson understood that and that's precisely why he reached out to the post-Industrial, relatively low skilled, low education level working class. He played on the split between them and the more prosperous left of centre urbanites.

That's gone now. It needs a showman to get those people to be prepared to vote Tory. Hearing Braverman ranting like an unhinged maniac about the Tofu eating wokerati won't cut it.

And what is Sunak's offering to those people?Yet more grinding Austerity. That ain't going to win them back.

I just don't see how Sunak builds a voting group that gets the Tories anywhere near a majority.

I understand why some vote Labour and I understand why some vote conservative. I used to approach politics like you. But then I became more open-minded and understood that ultimately everybody wants what is best, they just have different ideas on how to achieve that.

[SydneyRover]

There's a huge difference nc in that conservatives cling to the tried tested and failed economic of trickle down. Take that away and where is the policy framework to provide fairness across the board. One of the other problems has been the culture wars that have persisted, if sunak is true to his word, the 'integrity' word then he will stamp on it if it rears it's head under his stewardship. He is very green, it will be interesting to see who carries the can for the economic failures of the past decade.

[ncRover]

There's a huge difference nc in that conservatives cling to the tried tested and failed economic of trickle down. Take that away and where is the policy framework to provide fairness across the board. One of the other problems has been the culture wars that have persisted, if sunak is true to his word, the 'integrity' word then he will stamp on it if it rears it's head under his stewardship. He is very green, it will be interesting to see who carries the can for the economic failures of the past decade.

Are you defining “trickle-down economics” as anything post 1979?

[SydneyRover]

If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.

[ncRover]

If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.

You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's a very simple problem for Sunak


The Tories lost the degree educated urban voters over the past generation. They still have the Home Counties golf club bore set, and they still for some unfathomable reason have a big chunk of the over 65s.

But that's nowhere near enough to win a majority.

Johnson understood that and that's precisely why he reached out to the post-Industrial, relatively low skilled, low education level working class. He played on the split between them and the more prosperous left of centre urbanites.

That's gone now. It needs a showman to get those people to be prepared to vote Tory. Hearing Braverman ranting like an unhinged maniac about the Tofu eating wokerati won't cut it.

And what is Sunak's offering to those people?Yet more grinding Austerity. That ain't going to win them back.

I just don't see how Sunak builds a voting group that gets the Tories anywhere near a majority.

I understand why some vote Labour and I understand why some vote conservative. I used to approach politics like you. But then I became more open-minded and understood that ultimately everybody wants what is best, they just have different ideas on how to achieve that.

Assuming everyone is in politics to do the very best for the country is a start. I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't believe for one moment that was Johnson's position for example. I think (and there's plenty of evidence to support this) that his overriding aim was to satisfy his own desire for power.

But let's put that aside and assume your take is correct. That doesn't mean that you simply accept that all policies on all sides are equally valid.

Austerity is a classic example. That went against every textbook analysis of what a Government should do for the best interests of the economy. The Tories were told that clearly at the time. They CHOSE to ignore that and throw their lot in with the views of a tiny minority of economists (include one who turned out to have reached his conclusion after wrongly adding up a list of numbers in a spreadsheet).

That policy was massively damaging to our economy and our society. Even if you believe that it was chosen in good faith, that doesn't mean you have a duty to shrug your shoulders and accept it. The right thing to do is to point out that it was a massive, avoidable mistake and try to convince people never to accept that sort of mistake again.



Precisely the same argument applies to Trussonomics. Once again, it went against pretty much all established economic knowledge and was supported by a tiny minority of fringe economists. Even if you believe that Truss honestly felt it was the right thing to do, that doesn't mean you should just accept it. You should fight like bloody hell to persuade people that it is a hugely damaging mistake.

THAT is how politics is supposed to work.

PS. Despite my comments on Johnson, I do believe that the vast majority of politicians on all sides are in the job because they believe that their approach is best for the country. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them all, or just accept their analysis.

[SydneyRover]

If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.

You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.

And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet

[wilts rover]

The Tories have put Sunak in charge because they think he is their best bet of staying in power, keeping their jobs and keeping taxes lower for their tax avoiding backers. But how is he going to do that?

Other than Freeports - which are nothing but tax evasion zones (and who picks up the bill for the missing tax) - what is his plan to help Britain, grow, prosper and be healthier and happier? All he talks of is hard times and further austerity?

Looking at what he has said so far and who he has appointed, Sunak's plan of how he is going to run/ruin Britain is best summed up by this comment in a long piece by Richard Murphy:

'This government exists to deliver division. Only by doing so does it think it has the slightest chance of re-election. As such any opportunity to promote hatred within our society will be both created and exploited by it to the full.'

It's Party before Country again. It always is for the Tories.

https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1585154043655102469

[wilts rover]

How the UK became 0ne of the poorest countries in Western Europe

Britain chose finance over industry, austerity over investment, and a closed economy over openness to the world.

Vote Tory

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/?utm_source=feed

[River Don]

The one thing that can be said for Trussonomics is that it was so patently and disasterously wrong that it had to be abandonded within the space of a few short weeks...

That said though, it was an attempt at generating a boom. Truss was right when she said Sunak is a bean counter who is out of touch because he's so rich. She predicted he would deliver a recession and that is looking highly likely. The only question is how deep.

[ncRover]

How the UK became 0ne of the poorest countries in Western Europe

Britain chose finance over industry, austerity over investment, and a closed economy over openness to the world.

Vote Tory

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/?utm_source=feed

Good article.

“Today, Britain seems trapped between a left-wing aversion to growth and a right-wing aversion to openness. On the academic left, the U.K. has lately been home to a surging movement called degrowtherism, which asserts that saving the planet requires rich countries to stop seeking growth. On the right, the electorate is dominated by older voters who care more about culture wars than about competitiveness.”

I thought purposefully wanting to leave the single market was crazy.

I think that more investment has been required over the last 10 years in the right areas. But that doesn’t make socialist ideas valid. The history books will tell you that.

Again, look at Ireland’s boom.

It’s not as binary as you guys think.

[ncRover]

If you don't want to discuss the problems in my comment just say so, if you don't understand what trickle down economics is I don't see any point in a continued discussion.

You’ve got a point on the other points, yes. I just wanted to understand what you meant on the trickle down one. I understand the concept, but it seems a something hard to pin down and attribute to a particular system when we have been a pro-capitalist country since 1979. If I can understand how you understand it, I can debate your alternative proposals.

And it's not even mid, let alone end of season yet

I’m going to assume that by trickle down economics that you mean open free market capitalism.

If so please provide evidence that other economic models work better.

If we’re following your trickle down analogy, left wing ideas turn down the water supply in that.

[River Don]

For me there are a couple of key points to be made about this mess that are hardly ever mentioned.

Sometimes it is said that we are racking up debts like its wartime... Hello! If you hadn't noticed we are at war! Maybe just maybe these debts are acceptable when we are engaged in a de facto war with Russia?

The other is the root of the cost of living crisis is an energy crisis. The word energy hardly crops up in political debate but it is much the biggest driver of the inflation we are experiencing, apart from some food inflation which is probably in part down to the drought summer and again, the war with Russia. Not only because Russia is blockading the country which is a major producer but also because the price of artificial fertiliser has gone through the roof being produced in a process that heavily uses gas.

Maybe, if we facing up to the reality of what's going on here we'd have a better chance of overcoming it?

[SydneyRover]

Can't argue that cost's due to the was and then energy prices have not affected the economy, the problem began way before though that with having economic rationalists running the country so that it was and still is ill equipped to manage those or any other economic shocks RD.

[ncRover]

Fair enough BST, you’re right it is good to be passionate in what you believe in. I just don’t think that vilifying the other side is conducive to winning people over.

Haven’t followed the news much in recent days, you said Sunak was engaging in culture war stuff?

[SydneyRover]

How the UK became 0ne of the poorest countries in Western Europe

Britain chose finance over industry, austerity over investment, and a closed economy over openness to the world.

Vote Tory

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/?utm_source=feed

Good article.

“Today, Britain seems trapped between a left-wing aversion to growth and a right-wing aversion to openness. On the academic left, the U.K. has lately been home to a surging movement called degrowtherism, which asserts that saving the planet requires rich countries to stop seeking growth. On the right, the electorate is dominated by older voters who care more about culture wars than about competitiveness.”

I thought purposefully wanting to leave the single market was crazy.

I think that more investment has been required over the last 10 years in the right areas. But that doesn’t make socialist ideas valid. The history books will tell you that.

Again, look at Ireland’s boom.

It’s not as binary as you guys think.

It would be good to show where there has any of these no-growthers have been in power except for the last 12 years or so.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've never said anything about Sunak engaging in Culture War.

He's just re-appointed a Home Secretary though who is a batshit Culture Warrior.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anti-growth Left?

Give me strength.

Labour was calling for pro-growth policies throughout the 2010s, a decade when Austerity gave us the worst growth since the Napoleonic Wars.

[ncRover]

I've never said anything about Sunak engaging in Culture War.

He's just re-appointed a Home Secretary though who is a batshit Culture Warrior.

My mistake. Yes she is very strange.

[ncRover]

Anti-growth Left?

Give me strength.

Labour was calling for pro-growth policies throughout the 2010s, a decade when Austerity gave us the worst growth since the Napoleonic Wars.

Look at the general make up of members at labour conferences, and a lot of new MPs in recent years for them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anti-growth Left?

Give me strength.

Labour was calling for pro-growth policies throughout the 2010s, a decade when Austerity gave us the worst growth since the Napoleonic Wars.

Look at the general make up of members at labour conferences, and a lot of new MPs in recent years for them.

I have literally no idea what you are talking about.