England/World Cup

[dickos1]

Some of the worlds best have missed pens, the pressure in those situations is something that the average bloke can’t imagine.

Totally agree, mate. The defeat wasn't down to him. They were better than us, that's all.

Anyway, the Rovers won, so it's been a good day as far as I'm concerned.

Anyone watching that game, and coming out of it thinking France  were the better side need help.
England were by far the better side and got robbed by a few terrible decisions and a terrible missed pen.

Need help? F*ck me, talk about an hysterical overreaction to someone's post. I didn't use the same OTT semantics as you, by suggesting that France were BY FAR the better side, I simply said they were IMO the better team on the day.

In any case, you need to rethink your words if you're really saying that a team is "by far" the better team, despite not scoring a single goal in open play, against a team that scores two.

Are you saying you’ve never experienced a side being the better team but losing before?
France weren’t better than us last night, we were very good from the minute they scored until the end

[dickos1]

I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p  lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it

Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .

No more than Anyone else

The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .

How many have we been in, in comparison to them

Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .

They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .

Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .

Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .

You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .

So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament

No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .

In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .

Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .

I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .

It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .

Far from unreasonable .

But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.

In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case

The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .

We missed three in that shoot out .

Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .

Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .

History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .

Chris Waddle esque .

I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .

More importantly I wish we could solve it .

If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .

What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .

The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .

What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .

Why can't our footballers ?

They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.

Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .

Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .

Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p  lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it

Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .

No more than Anyone else

The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .

How many have we been in, in comparison to them

Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .

They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .

Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .

Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .

You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .

So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament

No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .

In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .

Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .

I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .

It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .

Far from unreasonable .

But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.

In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case

The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .

We missed three in that shoot out .

Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .

Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .

History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .

Chris Waddle esque .

I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .

More importantly I wish we could solve it .

If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .

What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .

The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .

What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .

Why can't our footballers ?

They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.

Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .

Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .

Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.

We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.

We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.

Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.

There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).

[dickos1]

I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p  lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it

Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .

No more than Anyone else

The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .

How many have we been in, in comparison to them

Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .

They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .

Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .

Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .

You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .

So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament

No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .

In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .

Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .

I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .

It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .

Far from unreasonable .

But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.

In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case

The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .

We missed three in that shoot out .

Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .

Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .

History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .

Chris Waddle esque .

I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .

More importantly I wish we could solve it .

If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .

What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .

The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .

What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .

Why can't our footballers ?

They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.

Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .

Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .

Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.

We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.

We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.

Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.

There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).

In the last 3 tournaments we’ve beaten sides that over the years we would never have beaten.
Croatia, Germany for example

The big difference is that in recent tournaments we’ve beaten the sides we should be beating, whereas in the past we’ve fallen to these sides frequently

[River Don]

We need to remember just how far behind the other big European nations English football was.

After English football was kicked out of European competition we really struggled. The game was being left behind in everything. Coaching, tactics, professional standards everything. I'd say until the last 10 years or so we've been catching up.

For a lot of my time watching England our standards haven't been high enough.

I feel that has changed recently and England is now producing sides that can and do compete.

Looking back at historic results doesn't help much. There were reasons England wasn't competing.

Now though, we are progressing through tournaments further consistently.

The problem we face now is the quality of opposition is improving across a broad base. There are far fewer easy fixtures.

[dickos1]

Exactly this.
Southgate has transformed the national team, he took over after we’d just been knocked out of a major tournament by Iceland. The previous World Cup we didn’t get out the group.
Now look at us, people are too quick to forget where we’ve come from

[donnievic]

What did VAR get wrong?

foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box

[tyke1962]

It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .

There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .

Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .

I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .

The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .

We virtually hosted the last Euros and  we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .

We may have missed the boat in my opinion .

[Padge_DRFC]

We'll take over Germany fans wise. Cheap and easy to get to.

Let's hope are games are in the north of America for the world cup. Maybe common sense that middle of the day games get played in Mexico and southern states of America.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p  lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it

Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .

No more than Anyone else

The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .

How many have we been in, in comparison to them

Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .

They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .

Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .

Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .

You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .

So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament

No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .

In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .

Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .

I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .

It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .

Far from unreasonable .

But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.

In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case

The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .

We missed three in that shoot out .

Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .

Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .

History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .

Chris Waddle esque .

I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .

More importantly I wish we could solve it .

If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .

What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .

The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .

What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .

Why can't our footballers ?

They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.

Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .

Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .

Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.

We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.

We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.

Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.

There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).

In the last 3 tournaments we’ve beaten sides that over the years we would never have beaten.
Croatia, Germany for example

The big difference is that in recent tournaments we’ve beaten the sides we should be beating, whereas in the past we’ve fallen to these sides frequently

I'll repeat. Just as in every tournament over the previous 56 years, in these past 3, we've been eliminated as soon as we came up against a real contender.

You are seriously not going to claim that beating the very worst German side since WWII is a significant achievement that bucks that trend? Really?

I'm bang in agreement that this is probably the best England side since 1966 (the 1982 side with a fit Keegan and Brooking would have pushed it close, but no others). But the fact remains that there's still another improvement necessary to make this a side of winners.

For the record, for the first time in my life I do actually thing this side has the potential to make that step and be a top 4 global side for the rest of this decade. But it's not, quite, there yet. Griezmann and Giroud showed that nous that separates the talented from the hard-nosed winners. That is what this squad needs to mature into.

[dickos1]

I thought we was the better team over 90 mins on the whole,kept their front 3 quiet most of the night and unlucky to lose,anyone can miss a penalty especially when under pressure just think he tried going with more power than placement,if gone with p  lol ace ment and not in quiete in corner and loris saved it then fans no doubt would say he should of blasted it

Yeh we tend to miss an awful lot of penalties under pressure .

No more than Anyone else

The Croatians have won as many penalty shootouts at this world cup as we have in our entire history .

How many have we been in, in comparison to them

Croatia have been involved in five penalty shootouts at major tournaments and won four of them , they lost their very first one at Euro 2008 .

They've actually won their last four all at world cups , a record only equalled by the Germans .

Percentage wise they have an 80% success rate .

Our record is two wins from nine giving us a 22% success rate .

You can play around with percentages I guess given we've been involved in more shootouts than Croatia but it's only four more and I think it's worth factoring in to this and acknowledging that Croatia didn't compete in their first tournament until 1996 to balance that out .

So Croatia are the best in the world, and because our record isn’t as good then we’re rubbish at them.
I don’t think anyone will have scored more penalties than Kane in a major tournament

No we are rubbish at them against almost everybody .

In my opinion Croatia are mentally stronger than we are and the facts back that up .

Your not willing to acknowledge the brutal truth that as a nation our players are weak in the head which is a significant flaw in top level football .

I'm somebody who admires mental strength , guts and balls if you want .

It's not asking too much of our players to win 50% of our penalty shootouts or step up and deliver as Kane failed to do last night every now and again .

Far from unreasonable .

But you’re using history to have a bash at this group of players.
Under southgate we’ve had two penalty shootouts in major tournaments won one and lost one.
Under this group of players we’ve had 6 penalties in major tournaments and scored 4 of them, if you include the denmark rebound.

In the past I agree we’ve struggled in the big moments but under southgate that hasn’t been the case

The players capitulated under Southgate at last year's Euro Final penalty shootout just as they have done previously .

We missed three in that shoot out .

Kane missed last night to level the game up under massive pressure .

Nowts changed so history is defiantly in play and to ignore our mental weakness is to not want to acknowledge the obvious fault in our makeup .

History wouldn't be in play if we had a 50% success rate and every now and again someone steps up in the big moments instead of blazing the ball three foot over the cross bar .

Chris Waddle esque .

I wish I knew why we are so weak in the head I really do .

More importantly I wish we could solve it .

If I've an opinion on it at all is that it's down to the players themselves to think clearly under pressure , I'm not convinced by practising penalties or even a sports psychologist to be honest .

What I do know is that normally you have to get through at least one maybe two penalty shootouts to win a major tournament these days .

The next world cup will have an extra knock out round so the odds are going to be even more stacked against us .

What's amazing is that both the Rugby Union team and cricket team delivered in high pressure moments to win respective world cups .

Why can't our footballers ?

They lost a penalty shootout in the final of a major competition, only the second one we’ve ever reached in our history.
And your only conclusion of that scenario is that the team capitulated, the manager failed.
It really is a very strange take on what happened.

Perennial losers in crunch games against quality opposition .

Play it down all you want with this , that and the other but facts are the facts .

Yeah we’ve lost some big games in major tournaments but so has everyone.
In the last 5 years we’ve done much better in these big games and hopefully this will continue.

We really, really haven't done much better in the big games.

We've done what we've always done in major tournaments since 1966. Every single time we have come up against a really serious top level opponent, we've got knocked out.

Last night England did play very well against a very, very good side. But France made by far the better chances, and France won.

There's a big step required to move beyond the level England has achieved (regularly competing) to the next level (winning).

In the last 3 tournaments we’ve beaten sides that over the years we would never have beaten.
Croatia, Germany for example

The big difference is that in recent tournaments we’ve beaten the sides we should be beating, whereas in the past we’ve fallen to these sides frequently

I'll repeat. Just as in every tournament over the previous 56 years, in these past 3, we've been eliminated as soon as we came up against a real contender.

You are seriously not going to claim that beating the very worst German side since WWII is a significant achievement that bucks that trend? Really?

I'm bang in agreement that this is probably the best England side since 1966 (the 1982 side with a fit Keegan and Brooking would have pushed it close, but no others). But the fact remains that there's still another improvement necessary to make this a side of winners.

For the record, for the first time in my life I do actually thing this side has the potential to make that step and be a top 4 global side for the rest of this decade. But it's not, quite, there yet. Griezmann and Giroud showed that nous that separates the talented from the hard-nosed winners. That is what this squad needs to mature into.

That’s just what the negative folk do though isn’t it, we beat Germany and it’s because they weren’t very good, we also beat Croatia in the euros.
You can’t class them as a serious contender in one tournament but not the next, nevermind the fact they’ve reached another World Cup semi.
Teams get knocked out by sides they shouldn’t do all the time, England have developed into a side that doesn’t do that anymore

[dickos1]

It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .

There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .

Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .

I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .

The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .

We virtually hosted the last Euros and  we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .

We may have missed the boat in my opinion .

You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dickos.

1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.

2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)

3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.

[ravenrover]

What did VAR get wrong?

foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box

There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal

[DaveDRFC]

What did VAR get wrong?

foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box

There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal

It wad about 20 seconds, and no England player touched the ball between the foul and France scoring, so not sure how there were several phases of play. I've definitely seen goals disallowed by VAR for very similar incidents in the build up.

[Sammy Chung was King]

We lost to the holders of the World Cup, admittedly greatly weakened by injuries but they still found a way to win. We were serious contenders to win it and in the end didn’t take our chances.

The French will have loved seeing Rashford on the bench, the one player that could have given them major problems. With him in the side we would have been less predictable.

There has been major progress made over the last three tournaments.
We lost because of a lack of concentration defensively, a missed penalty and the belief of the current holders, that they would find a way to win.
It wasn’t Deschamps out thinking Southgate tactically, we were just not quite good enough.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Couldn't agree more with most of that Sammy.

I would take issue with the Rashford point. Sako caused France no end of problems and if he had been a Brazilian or Argentinian playing like that, we'd be purring.

But, as you say, it wasn't quite enough. At the end of the day, England never once made a chance on a par with Griezmann finding space out wide and putting in an inch perfect cross for an old head like Giroud to latch onto.

Sometimes you have to accept the ability of the opposition. England played as well in a WC knockout match as they have done for half a century. But they need to up their game a notch further to turn that into winning.

[Colin C No.3]

The England team in 1990 would have gone on to beat an average Argentina side in the final IF we had beaten Germany in the semifinal penalty shoot out, IMO.

[ravenrover]

What did VAR get wrong?

foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box

There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal

It wad about 20 seconds, and no England player touched the ball between the foul and France scoring, so not sure how there were several phases of play. I've definitely seen goals disallowed by VAR for very similar incidents in the build up.

Yep you are correct over 20 secs not 40. Rice did make an attempt at a tackle can't blame VAR though all down to poor ref original decision, clear and obvious being the criteria for VAR to intervene

[dickos1]

Dickos.

1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.

2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)

3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.

It’s just not fathomable that you don’t have Germany as serious contenders in a euro competition.
Almost every tournament they’ve been in they’ve been written off beforehand and constantly they turn up for the major comps and surprise everyone.
Before we played that game everyone was writing us off said we would bottle it, we didn’t.
And because we didn’t Germany then became a dreadful team,

[i_ateallthepies]

We do know without question that England's 3rd goal in the 66 final should not have stood. Not even remotely up for discussion.

BST, So far as I am aware there has been no technology produced able to analyse the available footage that says indisputably that it should not have stood.


You are peddling your opinion and dressing it up as if it were fact. 

[donnievic]

What did VAR get wrong?

foul on Saka which lead to their goal which for me was enough for it too be overturned,also the foul on Kane which yes started outside the box looked to carry on into the box

There was over 40 secs betwen the foul and France scoring, the play went on down the line across to the right back to the left before scoring. The foul on Kane began outside the box agreed. However VAR does not look at potential penalties unless it is inside the box, regarding Saka there were several phases of play after the foul to say that it influenced the goal

that’s why I said it started outside the box which they can’t do anything but for me looked like it carried on into the box,as for the foul it doesn’t really matter how far they go back in the laws and we didn’t even regain the ball back in the time they broke up the field so I would also argue it could be classed as the same phase of play

[redwine]

Lots of words but it still doesn't alter the fact we still lost.

[tyke1962]

It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .

There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .

Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .

I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .

The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .

We virtually hosted the last Euros and  we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .

We may have missed the boat in my opinion .

You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc

Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .

He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .

I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .

If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .

I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dickos.

1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.

2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)

3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.

It’s just not fathomable that you don’t have Germany as serious contenders in a euro competition.
Almost every tournament they’ve been in they’ve been written off beforehand and constantly they turn up for the major comps and surprise everyone.
Before we played that game everyone was writing us off said we would bottle it, we didn’t.
And because we didn’t Germany then became a dreadful team,

So you're sticking to this line that "They are Germany therefore they are good?" Despite all the evidence that the modern Germany is as fallible as anyone else?

Germany's performance in the last four major finals tournaments is:
P16 W6 D4 L6

That is bang average, and absolutely not the record of a team that you consistently expect to be serious contenders.


A serious contender is a Croatia, whose form over those 4 tournaments is:
P20 W8 D8 L4

Or France:
P23 W16 D5 L2

My point is that, since 1966, every single time England has come up against a side in good long term form in the KO stages, sides with a strong, established, successful generation of players knitted together as a national side, we have been eliminated. There's just no arguing against that.

And who is this "Everyone"? I certainly didn't expect England to bottle that match. I didn't write them off or say that Germany were a dreadful team because we beat them. I expected England to win the game because England were a much better side.

[dickos1]

Dickos.

1) It's a fact that Germany are at a historic low ebb. You cannot say "they were a seriously strong team in 2021 because they are Germany." They were ranked 14-18th in the FIFA rankings from memory. Not basket cases, but not serious contenders.

2) Croatia: I specifically talked about England's performance against top sides in knockout phases. There, the pressures and consequences are so much greater, and it is there that small differences get amplified. England have previously beaten top contenders in group matches before failing in knockouts (1982, 2002). (And yes I know, 1982 R2 wasn't a normal knockout, but the effect was the same.)

3) You are always very spiky whenever anyone points out failings in your side. There's a serious discussion to be had here, but if you're just going to assume anyone pointing out facts and giving critiques is "negative", I think I'll leave you to your own opinions.

It’s just not fathomable that you don’t have Germany as serious contenders in a euro competition.
Almost every tournament they’ve been in they’ve been written off beforehand and constantly they turn up for the major comps and surprise everyone.
Before we played that game everyone was writing us off said we would bottle it, we didn’t.
And because we didn’t Germany then became a dreadful team,

So you're sticking to this line that "They are Germany therefore they are good?" Despite all the evidence that the modern Germany is as fallible as anyone else?

Germany's performance in the last four major finals tournaments is:
P16 W6 D4 L6

That is bang average, and absolutely not the record of a team that you consistently expect to be serious contenders.


A serious contender is a Croatia, whose form over those 4 tournaments is:
P20 W8 D8 L4

Or France:
P23 W16 D5 L2

My point is that, since 1966, every single time England has come up against a side in good long term form in the KO stages, sides with a strong, established, successful generation of players knitted together as a national side, we have been eliminated. There's just no arguing against that.

And who is this "Everyone"? I certainly didn't expect England to bottle that match. I didn't write them off or say that Germany were a dreadful team because we beat them. I expected England to win the game because England were a much better side.

No what I’m saying is for years people were saying we could never beat a big nation in a knock out round. We beat one of the biggest nations there is and then all the negative Nigel’s come out and play it down.

It’s the same with people going on about how easy the routes have been in the last two tournaments, look at other nations and their route to the final, portugals in euro 2016 is breathtaking and even though their fixtures couldn’t have been any easier if they’d picked them themselves, they still didn’t win a match until the semi final against wales.
5 games without a win against very average teams, yet their fans don’t bang on about how easy the route was.

We got to a final and a semi, that’s all that should matter.

[dickos1]

It might be worth pointing out one or two things regarding this group of players and what the next four years is in reality .

There's nobody as yet coming up behind Stones and Maguire in central defence .

Kane will be 33 at the next world cup and whilst he may still be around and affective he may not be either or he might retire from international football and try and rinse a few more club years .

I don't see anyone emerging as yet either although that could change .

The next Euros are in Germany which will be difficult to say the least but the next world cup in Canada , US and Mexico is going to be played in sweltering heat which doesn't bode well .

We virtually hosted the last Euros and  we've just played a World Cup in a country as neutral as you can get , a country that didn't really favour anyone .

We may have missed the boat in my opinion .

You made your mind up before the tournament started, now all you’re doing is trying to justify your negativity.
Even if we’d have won it you would’ve been going on about we won it despite of southgate etc etc

Your making out Southgate is some sort of messiah who has saved English football from the graveyard .

He's done some very good work during his tenure and made the England shirt more valuable than it was by many players prior to his arrival .

I still maintain tactically he falls short in my opinion , he's reactive to the events playing out on the park rather than pro active , we aren't talking about a complete numpty here but just shy of the tactical nous required at the very highest level .

If you think I wanted Southgate to fail or even fail further still then you are completely wide of the mark .

I want to leave this earth having seen England win a major tournament , I'm bloody desperate for it like millions of others are .

I think your first post on the World Cup a few weeks ago was feck off southgate, and calling us a joke of a nation.
So yes I reckon your mind was made up, whatever happened in this tournament you were going to find something to moan about.

[ncRover]

End of the day we have a good young side that will get better. Stick with GS imo he done the best in tournaments than any other manager since Sir BR.

This was the narrative after 2018 yet here we are.

[dickos1]

End of the day we have a good young side that will get better. Stick with GS imo he done the best in tournaments than any other manager since Sir BR.

This was the narrative after 2018 yet here we are.

The squad in 2018 was a very very average squad.

[selby]

  It took a bent ref to get us out of this one, not the first time either, hand of god anyone.