Labour top brass getting down to business

[ravenrover]

Cos I was born their have family and friends there and politics is international how about you RR?

I live here, you don't

When I corrected you about the bbc the other day a little bell rang and then I remembered you've done this before, reminding me how the forum works ....... for you at any rate, 'you correct me even though I'm wrong' and there'll be payback .....

he he, nice one RR.

I replied to your question, what are you on about me correcting you BBC?

[SydneyRover]

Sorry to hear that RR, my old man died at 72 through smoking, he wasn't fit enough to make the army in the war and had to go down the pit, which didn't last long because of his health so they gave him a surface job. We come from a long line of coal hewers. One at least couldn't write and signed with a X. Too much information, maybe but it's why I'm passionate in having a fairer society in the UK and in Oz.

[bobjimwilly]

Most sensible people don't want to see mass public sector pay rises and subsequent tax rises they want to see something proportionate.

"Most people"? The most people you know must be different to the most people I know.

That the government cannot afford to pay all public sector workers inflation matching pay rises is simply not true; it's a political decision. Increase taxes in certain areas, levy additional windfall taxes, and it is more than affordable.

[roverstillidie91]

But, but, but, Starmer must be good, the Labour Party has a massive lead in the polls.
I agree with that post above by albie that Starmer offers little to attract voters, except of course those who vote Labour whatever the circumstances.

There was a caller in at one of the news stations suggesting Keir Starmer is putting on a front to appease the right wing media and then bring about a Jeremy Corbyn style of policies aimed at the working people, I'm not so sure I'm convinced by that in all honesty.

[drfchound]

But, but, but, Starmer must be good, the Labour Party has a massive lead in the polls.
I agree with that post above by albie that Starmer offers little to attract voters, except of course those who vote Labour whatever the circumstances.

There was a caller in at one of the news stations suggesting Keir Starmer is putting on a front to appease the right wing media and then bring about a Jeremy Corbyn style of policies aimed at the working people, I'm not so sure I'm convinced by that in all honesty.

Who knows what Starmer thinks or what he proposes to do when they win the GE.

[roverstillidie91]

But, but, but, Starmer must be good, the Labour Party has a massive lead in the polls.
I agree with that post above by albie that Starmer offers little to attract voters, except of course those who vote Labour whatever the circumstances.

There was a caller in at one of the news stations suggesting Keir Starmer is putting on a front to appease the right wing media and then bring about a Jeremy Corbyn style of policies aimed at the working people, I'm not so sure I'm convinced by that in all honesty.

Who knows what Starmer thinks or what he proposes to do when they win the GE.

Labour sabotaged their last election campaign by going against Jeremy Corbyn, what credible political party does that

[BillyStubbsTears]

But, but, but, Starmer must be good, the Labour Party has a massive lead in the polls.
I agree with that post above by albie that Starmer offers little to attract voters, except of course those who vote Labour whatever the circumstances.

There was a caller in at one of the news stations suggesting Keir Starmer is putting on a front to appease the right wing media and then bring about a Jeremy Corbyn style of policies aimed at the working people, I'm not so sure I'm convinced by that in all honesty.

Who knows what Starmer thinks or what he proposes to do when they win the GE.

Labour sabotaged their last election campaign by going against Jeremy Corbyn, what credible political party does that

You what?

[tyke1962]

But, but, but, Starmer must be good, the Labour Party has a massive lead in the polls.
I agree with that post above by albie that Starmer offers little to attract voters, except of course those who vote Labour whatever the circumstances.

There was a caller in at one of the news stations suggesting Keir Starmer is putting on a front to appease the right wing media and then bring about a Jeremy Corbyn style of policies aimed at the working people, I'm not so sure I'm convinced by that in all honesty.

Who knows what Starmer thinks or what he proposes to do when they win the GE.

Labour sabotaged their last election campaign by going against Jeremy Corbyn, what credible political party does that

You what?

What's a matter Billy didn't they cover it on Twitter ?

Get your head out of your ass man .

https://youtu.be/NFBDzK1qREY

[albie]

As set out in the 850 page leaked report into sabotage by Labour right wingers, backed up by the Forde Report, BST.

We covered this in the topic "The Labour Files", in which AJ presented the info in the data leak on conspiracy to deceive the membership.

Here you go;
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=286068.0

[SydneyRover]

But, but, but, Starmer must be good, the Labour Party has a massive lead in the polls.
I agree with that post above by albie that Starmer offers little to attract voters, except of course those who vote Labour whatever the circumstances.

There was a caller in at one of the news stations suggesting Keir Starmer is putting on a front to appease the right wing media and then bring about a Jeremy Corbyn style of policies aimed at the working people, I'm not so sure I'm convinced by that in all honesty.

Who knows what Starmer thinks or what he proposes to do when they win the GE.

Labour sabotaged their last election campaign by going against Jeremy Corbyn, what credible political party does that
[/quote

The Forde report found: 2017 election campaign clashes
Anti-Corbyn staffers in Labour HQ did not deliberately try to throw the election, as some leftwingers have suggested – but did set up a secret operation, channelling funds to MPs who they wanted to protect. Loto, meanwhile, sought to support its own favoured MPs.

''We find that both HQ staff and Loto staff wanted the party to win with as many of their favoured MPs in place as possible, which prevented fully objective decision-making; the two sides were trying to win in different ways''

''Chaos in Corbyn’s office
There was hostility from Labour HQ towards Corbyn’s office, but his operation appeared deeply dysfunctional.

We have heard from a number of staff who worked in Loto in this period that the operation was unstructured and at times chaotic, with a lack of clear decision-making and reporting lines and, in particular, a reluctance on the part of Jeremy Corbyn himself to make and communicate unequivocal decisions''

Here's a summary of the Forde Report:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/19/key-takeaways-forde-report-labour-factionalism

[SydneyRover]

Do facts actually mean anything to the posters immediately above?

[tyke1962]

Do facts actually mean anything to the posters immediately above?

The only name immediately above your post is YOU .

[SydneyRover]

And you wonder why people have arguments, Tyke you blindly followed a factually incorrect post because it's what you always want to hear, truth or not.

[SydneyRover]

Now, will those above that have been shown to be wrong accept that or will they jump in the next time this subject comes up say the same because it's what they believe despite the facts.

I doubt any of you have read the report I certainly haven't but if you dispute the summary you could of course read the Forde report, make notes and put them up for debate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of all the Betrayal Myths of the Far Left, the idea that Corbyn got pummelled out of sight in 2019 because he was undermined from within is the biggest comfort blanket going.

[tyke1962]

Of all the Betrayal Myths of the Far Left, the idea that Corbyn got pummelled out of sight in 2019 because he was undermined from within is the biggest comfort blanket going.

You know what Billy in many respects your just as bad as the wealthy golf club bores who voted in Liz Truss .

There are many in the Labour Party during Corbyn's tenure who are simply a set of bstrds and they will continue to be a set of bstrd's in government .

I'll be here to remind you of it when they govern this country .

You can count on it .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.
Yeah whatever. You bathe yourself in the warm glow that you and Corbyn were right all along and his abject failure was everyone else's fault.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.
Yeah whatever. You bathe yourself in the warm glow that you and Corbyn were right all along and his abject failure was everyone else's fault.

The difference between me and you Billy is I'll call it out irrespective of my own political beliefs .

Corbyn was a weak man let me say that , anybody with a backbone would have thrown his internal enemies out of the party and not thought twice about it , unfortunately he wasn't that kind of politician and preferred to try and work with these bstrds .

His Brexit Secretary hardly did him any favours either with his ambiguous approach although again Corbyn was his boss and should have put him back in his box .

Anybody who can't answer the question of pressing the Red Button when threatened with a nuclear attack deserves to be slaughtered by the electorate .

His policies however were superb and it remains to be seen how many of the promises Keith made to build on Corbyn's tenure come to fruition .

Personally next to none would be my prediction .

But hey ho it makes you electable to live inside Thatcher's tent .

Well done .

[albie]

For sale to the highest bidder, Labour Party policy;
https://pdfhost.io/v/DaG3cKrPN_PortlandHowLabourWorks

The deplorable Alastair Campbell has teamed up with ex Sun journo George Pascoe Watson to develop a prospectus for influence.
After cash for questions, comes cash for policies, I suppose!

Keith trawling new depths here.

[scawsby steve]

For sale to the highest bidder, Labour Party policy;
https://pdfhost.io/v/DaG3cKrPN_PortlandHowLabourWorks

The deplorable Alastair Campbell has teamed up with ex Sun journo George Pascoe Watson to develop a prospectus for influence.
After cash for questions, comes cash for policies, I suppose!

Keith trawling new depths here.

Alastair Campbell is a despicable character.

F*cking good bagpipes player though.

[SydneyRover]

Tyke.
Yeah whatever. You bathe yourself in the warm glow that you and Corbyn were right all along and his abject failure was everyone else's fault.

The difference between me and you Billy is I'll call it out irrespective of my own political beliefs .

Corbyn was a weak man let me say that , anybody with a backbone would have thrown his internal enemies out of the party and not thought twice about it , unfortunately he wasn't that kind of politician and preferred to try and work with these bstrds .

His Brexit Secretary hardly did him any favours either with his ambiguous approach although again Corbyn was his boss and should have put him back in his box .

Anybody who can't answer the question of pressing the Red Button when threatened with a nuclear attack deserves to be slaughtered by the electorate .

His policies however were superb and it remains to be seen how many of the promises Keith made to build on Corbyn's tenure come to fruition .

Personally next to none would be my prediction .

But hey ho it makes you electable to live inside Thatcher's tent .

Well done .

Except you have been a critic of labour for what seems to be forever and yet have only recently almost begrudgingly thrown your hat in the ring.

[wilts rover]

For sale to the highest bidder, Labour Party policy;
https://pdfhost.io/v/DaG3cKrPN_PortlandHowLabourWorks

The deplorable Alastair Campbell has teamed up with ex Sun journo George Pascoe Watson to develop a prospectus for influence.
After cash for questions, comes cash for policies, I suppose!

Keith trawling new depths here.

What has this got to do with Starmer? It is a private company who commissioned two 'journalists' to write a booklet.

[albie]

Nothing like this happens without the approval of Labour head office, Wilts.

Starmer signed off on this charm offensive to draw in corporate sponsors as a key part of the election strategy to embed business interests at the heart of Blue Labour.
The idea of paying for policy influence is directly opposed to the democratic objective of forming a manifesto based on ethical first principles.

The aim is to close the resource gap to the Tories, who explicitly represent commercial and investment interests, and in doing so redefine Labour as a Tory sub-group.
Corporate capture and the adoption of a programme not directly in the public interest, or in the support of low income working people, is clearly against the founding principles of Labour.

No wonder Keith and Reeves are not coming up with effective solutions to the energy cost of living crisis.......who pays the piper, calls the tune!

[ravenrover]

What's your source Albie?

[albie]

Gabriel Pogrund, investigative journo of the Sunday Times.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not sure I  understand your beef here Albie. What is it specifically in that document that's got you so het up?

[wilts rover]

Gabriel Pogrund, investigative journo of the Sunday Times.

Gabriel Pogrund doesn't say any of that in his story.

It is a private investment company commissioning a booklet for their investors to get to know the Labour Party better as they are fairly sure they will be in government soon. It will gain absolutely zero money for the Labour Party but is a forward look for investment funds as to what they can expect under Labout so THEY can continue to make money. It's called capitalism.

But yes, Reeves and Starmer know they too have to speak to the bankers and trust funds to get them on side. John McDonnell knew that. Which is why he went to Davos and spoke at the Mansion House.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's a stream of thinking on the Left that thinks business is always and everywhere the enemy.

And they wonder why they never get elected...

[wilts rover]

There's a stream of thinking on the Left that thinks business is always and everywhere the enemy.

And they wonder why they never get elected...

And there is a stream of thinking on the left who know they have to work with business to get elected. See John McDonnell.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I entirely agree Wilts.

McDonnell was on the Preston show this week talking more sense on Ukraine and the need to help them militarily than Corbyn and the Stop the War Putin acolytes have ever uttered.

There's an interesting alternative history where McDonnell instead of Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour party in 2015. McDonnell is a far stronger intellect and far more hard headed in general. We COULD have had a genuinely socialist economic manifesto in 2017, without the stupid, immature and frankly, dangerous baggage that Corbyn brought on foreign policy. McDonnell would never, ever have let himself come across as someone who hated Britain - the easy jibe to Corbyn that I heard again and again on the doorsteps.