The cost of Brexit (cont)

[wilts rover]

According to a new study comparing the performance of the UK economy with others of a similar size Brexit (or to be more accurate Johnson's Brexit Deal) is costing the UK £40 billion per year - or £750 million per week.

The economy is 5.5% smaller than it would have been if we had stayed in the EU with business investment down 11% and trade in goods down 7%.

https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/brexit-costs-us-750-million-a-week

And that's before Truss & Kwarteng's budget. Still we have more tax dodging billionaires in the country than ever before so at least you got what you voted for (or what they wanted you to vote for).

[SydneyRover]

yes continued every year ..............

[BillyStubbsTears]

Don't worry.

This t**t who is one of the t**ts who broke Britain is being paid to give a speech on how Britain got broke and how we should fix it...

https://mobile.twitter.com/CISOZ/status/1605344296424673280

So that's all good, eh?

[BillyStubbsTears]

See, Hannan said categorically before the Brexit vote that absolutely no-one was talking about us leaving the Single Market.

You'd think after that, he might just have the good grace to STFU for about...the rest of his life?

[albie]

The FT produced a video explainer on the Brexit costs a couple of months ago;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2lWmgEK1Y

This looks to separate out the Covid and cost of living pressures on top of Brexit.
Trouble is that they will continue to amplify each other into the mid term and beyond the next GE.

Neither party has a clue about how to handle this, other than pretending it is not a clear threat to the UK economy.

[SydneyRover]

Well beyond the next election Albie, those whom were shouted down during the 'debates' have been shown to be correct, unfortunately it will take another generation of pollies with no connection to it that will reconnect with Europe, maybe not connected as before but definitely connected economically and most likely militarily and probably accepting some common regulation.

[BobG]

Yes. In rhe long run that is absolutely inevitable Sydney. Nobody ever seems to stop to ask themselves 'Why did a Conservative Prime Minister decide that being part of Europe was the best policy for Britain'? Being alone in a world dominated by 3 huge trade and military blocs is never, ever, going to be a sensible choice.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

But...but...but!

We're Britain!

[selby]

 The biggest problem with Britain is the European loving people that live here and glorify in their own demise, and just moan.  I wonder why they stay here when there is a wonder land just a short dingy ride away, they could swop stories mid channel with the boats coming the other way.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just impossible to have any sort of grown up discussion int it?

Who's "glorying in our own demise" here Selby? Some of us are working 50 hours a week to try to sort out the mess that pensioners like you have tipped us into.

[tommy toes]

Just impossible to have any sort of grown up discussion int it?

Who's "glorying in our own demise" here Selby? Some of us are working 50 hours a week to try to sort out the mess that pensioners like you have tipped us into.

... Ahem BST.
One pensioner here who managed to retain a bit of sense, but I personally know many who didn't, including both my siblings.

In fact, I hardly know anyone my age who voted remain, including all the blokes who go to the Rovers with me.

With age comes wisdom... My arse..
More like with age comes intolerance and prejudice

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apologies TT. I'm talking about the demographic as an average.

[tommy toes]

Despite what Labour is saying now about not rejoining the EU when they win the next election, I hope this is just a 'let's not rock the boat' tactic, and the first thing they do is apply to rejoin the single market.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

[tyke1962]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

[Glyn_Wigley]

The biggest problem with Britain is the European loving people that live here and glorify in their own demise, and just moan.  I wonder why they stay here when there is a wonder land just a short dingy ride away, they could swop stories mid channel with the boats coming the other way.

You had years of opportunity to leave Britain when we were in the evil EU but you didn't feck off because you hated it, did you?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

According to all the Brexit lovers on here, that's all it took to give Boris a mandate to do whatever he wanted.

As for the Euro/no rebate bit, that'd be the price we'd have to pay for our own stupidity in the first place.

[selby]

   Quite Happy Glyn, always done OK, even now, life's good, only dark cloud at the moment is the Rovers Buddy.

[tyke1962]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

According to all the Brexit lovers on here, that's all it took to give Boris a mandate to do whatever he wanted.

As for the Euro/no rebate bit, that'd be the price we'd have to pay for our own stupidity in the first place.

If the Labour Party put rejoining the EU in their election manifesto and won an 80 seat majority on that ticket then they'd be nothing more to be said .

I certainly wouldn't expect the four goes at it the remain vote had between 2015 and 2019 and fell short each time .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

There'll be another referendum Tyke. Just be patient. There'll be a change to put right that far-Right Brexit you were mugged into supporting.

[danumdon]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

According to all the Brexit lovers on here, that's all it took to give Boris a mandate to do whatever he wanted.

As for the Euro/no rebate bit, that'd be the price we'd have to pay for our own stupidity in the first place.

Let me get this straight, you've whittled about Brexit since forever and about how much it's cost us but you would now be quite happy to "pay the price for our own stupidity" and re-enter with no rebate and the euro to boot.

And you had the temerity to talk about stupid?

[albie]

Very unlikely to be a new referendum on this, BST.

Why would you choose that route rather than a explicit manifesto commitment, as Tyke suggests?
Trying to introduce changes via the back door will go down like a pint of cold sick.

Keith is telling the Guardian that;
 "Rejoining the EU’s single market would not boost UK economic growth, Keir Starmer has argued, saying it would create “years of uncertainty” for UK businesses, which would be worse than the closer trade links that would come".

This is complete bollox, as anyone with a basic understanding of economics will know (see the FT link I posted above).

How do you get from thinking there is no trade loss with the current arrangement to a new referendum?
Wake up!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

I'd love to live in your world, where all a politician had to do was to say what they believed in and everything else would fall into.place.

Except...no, hang on, the previous Labour leader did precisely that in Spring 2019 and look how well that turned out.

Starmer does not believe and has never said that Brexit hasn't produced an economic hit. The question is: how do you get to a position where you can address that?

What exactly is to be gained by Starmer screaming from the rooftops that Brexit is damaging the economy and must be reversed? How exactly does that take us one step closer to sorting out the damage to the economy that Brexit's doing?

The one and only chance that the Tories have of winning in 2 years time is by dragging Labour back into a Brexit fight. I know YOU want that because you'd rather Labour lose than a Starmer-led Labour win. But the people in charge of Labour are a bit cannot than that
 

If you REALLY want to repair the damage done by Brexit, you don't do that by giving a Sunak/Braverman/Badenoch Government a sniff of a chance of winning in 2024. Winning that election is the first step. Everything else is secondary. We're no longer in the Corbyn universe where the most important thing was proving to the 4 Ms that you were still ideologically sound, even if that meant looking unelectable to the rest of your party.

On the bigger stage, I've said for years now that the only way we reverse Brexit is to let enough people who supported it see what a f**king awful decision it was. You have to let the people see for themselves. Then ask them if they want to change their minds. That's why, one day, sometime around 2030, there'll be another referendum.

[albie]

Never mind the waffle about Corbyn and the distraction tactics to avoid the issue, how do you escape from this;
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/keir-starmer-back-eu-make-brexit-work-311956/
to a position of a new referendum?

2030 you say....err, why 2030?
That is beyond the next parliament, and by then the entire economic landscape will have changed as we exceed the 1.5 degree limits for climate change.

Your position makes no sense, but you know that deep down, don't you?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

According to all the Brexit lovers on here, that's all it took to give Boris a mandate to do whatever he wanted.

As for the Euro/no rebate bit, that'd be the price we'd have to pay for our own stupidity in the first place.

If the Labour Party put rejoining the EU in their election manifesto and won an 80 seat majority on that ticket then they'd be nothing more to be said .

I certainly wouldn't expect the four goes at it the remain vote had between 2015 and 2019 and fell short each time .

Did that 80 seat majority give Johnson the mandate to make the pig's ear he did of Northern Ireland? Do you think it's what the British public voted for? He got Brexit done?..ask an Irishman whether they think he did.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Starmer is playing it very sensibly.

He knows precisely what damage Brexit is doing.

He also knows that opening up that issue before the next election just plays into the Tories' hands. It allows them to start the whole anti-EU Culture War trope again.

So he says his plan is to not consider rejoining the SM and CU "for now".

That's politics. He closes down the issue "for now". And gives himself the opening to bring the issue back to the boil when politically suitable.

And if the polls carry on like this, the time when things become politically suitable might be a lot sooner than I ever thought.

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1605613548792578050?s=20&t=PW9SyhHr-9xxmuvY8ZG7kA

How do you propose to gain a mandate Billy to rejoin the EU ?

Another Referendum ?

An Election Manifesto ?

Opinion Polls ? ( careful they had remain to win )

Presumably you'd wish to run this one past the electorate ..... Yes ?

Have you also considered what the terms of re-entry to the EU maybe ?

Acceptance of the Euro ?

No rebate perhaps ?

There's more to this than one demographic in the graveyard I'd respectively suggest .

According to all the Brexit lovers on here, that's all it took to give Boris a mandate to do whatever he wanted.

As for the Euro/no rebate bit, that'd be the price we'd have to pay for our own stupidity in the first place.

Let me get this straight, you've whittled about Brexit since forever and about how much it's cost us but you would now be quite happy to "pay the price for our own stupidity" and re-enter with no rebate and the euro to boot.

And you had the temerity to talk about stupid?

Yes, because what we lost was worth a lot more. The stupidity was throwing them away in the first place. Why do you think other countries are happy to be in the EU under those terms - it's because they know they're better off than out of it.

And I'm using the word 'we' because the Brexiteers keep yelling us we have to get united so I'm only doing what they keep saying they want remainers to do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Never mind the waffle about Corbyn and the distraction tactics to avoid the issue, how do you escape from this;
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/keir-starmer-back-eu-make-brexit-work-311956/
to a position of a new referendum?

2030 you say....err, why 2030?
That is beyond the next parliament, and by then the entire economic landscape will have changed as we exceed the 1.5 degree limits for climate change.

Your position makes no sense, but you know that deep down, don't you?

Tell me in simple detail how Labour opens up the Brexit wound for the next two years and wins in 2024.

Tell me that and I'll engage..

Ignore that, and all your principles and theories aren't worth zip.

But why do I bother? I've never yet convinced anyone from the far Left that winning an election is a necessary condition to actually implementing any progressive policy.

[tyke1962]

Never mind the waffle about Corbyn and the distraction tactics to avoid the issue, how do you escape from this;
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/keir-starmer-back-eu-make-brexit-work-311956/
to a position of a new referendum?

2030 you say....err, why 2030?
That is beyond the next parliament, and by then the entire economic landscape will have changed as we exceed the 1.5 degree limits for climate change.

Your position makes no sense, but you know that deep down, don't you?

Tell me in simple detail how Labour opens up the Brexit wound for the next two years and wins in 2024.

Tell me that and I'll engage..

Ignore that, and all your principles and theories aren't worth zip.

But why do I bother? I've never yet convinced anyone from the far Left that winning an election is a necessary condition to actually implementing any progressive policy.

The part I'm struggling with is your comment that giving the electorate a longer look at Brexit until possibly around 2030 .

Presumably you are assuming a Labour government to be in it's second term , is that right ?

If so after 6 years in government the electorate at least in my opinion aren't going to buy rejoining the EU because they are going to judge you on your capabilities of running the country outside of the EU , the Tories and the right wing media will eat you alive .

Labour get in to power they own it too , they own it because they've stated they have no plans to rejoin which equates to the electorate this side of a GE they feel they can do better .

Doesn't fly in the face of reality Billy and that's without mentioning accepting the Euro and no rebate .

[SydneyRover]

Stay out of Europe or I'll shoot myself ........ in the foot

[tyke1962]

Stay out of Europe or I'll shoot myself ........ in the foot

The point is Sydney is that this is what potentially happens when you throw your core beliefs out of the window in the pursuit of power .

It catches up with you the same as it did when you accepted living inside Thatcherism for 13 years and got burned .

The plan Billy has will see you burned again .

You hitch your wagon to Brexit and doing better if elected to government then that's what you follow through .