Sack the board

[roversdude]

That message hits home SM

[Campsall rover]

Than you Mr. Silent Majority for clarifying the position.
It appears that for most of the last 20 years our club's existance has been sustained by altruism.
I strongly suspect that if the current owners could find acceptable buyers they would do so.

The last 20 years? Not so sure about that.

I'm convinced that JR was definitely acting out of instinct and a love for the club when he initially took on the ownership and control of DRFC. But I'm also convinced that as time went by he fell in love with being the Chairman of a football club and the status that comes with that. Much the same as our current Chairman I would suggest.

The one individual who has been spending his money without a selfish motive whatsoever is TB. He's also contributed more cash than any individual in my lifetime. And, he's always said that if a reasonable buyer came along he would sell up and let someone else have the club. He's also said that he wanted to get the club into a sustainable position so that it's future is assured. Being sustainable isn't about him saving money as some people seem to imply quite assertively, but is for the long term future of the club. The club is now in that position, which essentially means that the next phase of DRFC is probably not too far around the corner.

Unfortunately there are some people that simply have deaf ears to the facts or are even don’t accept what you have said as fact.
They expect TB to keep ploughing in more of his money in to fund the playing budget.
Well it’s his choice and he obviously doesn’t want to do that anymore. We should all be very thankful for what he has done for the club.

We just have to hope there is someone out there who is prepared to bank roll the club to get us to where we all want to be. But we don’t want the wrong investor(s)
It is vital that TB sells to someone who is 100% genuine and wants to see the club achieve what we the supporters want.
I am sure he will do everything in his powers to make sure that happens.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Than you Mr. Silent Majority for clarifying the position.
It appears that for most of the last 20 years our club's existance has been sustained by altruism.
I strongly suspect that if the current owners could find acceptable buyers they would do so.

The last 20 years? Not so sure about that.

I'm convinced that JR was definitely acting out of instinct and a love for the club when he initially took on the ownership and control of DRFC. But I'm also convinced that as time went by he fell in love with being the Chairman of a football club and the status that comes with that. Much the same as our current Chairman I would suggest.

The one individual who has been spending his money without a selfish motive whatsoever is TB. He's also contributed more cash than any individual in my lifetime. And, he's always said that if a reasonable buyer came along he would sell up and let someone else have the club. He's also said that he wanted to get the club into a sustainable position so that it's future is assured. Being sustainable isn't about him saving money as some people seem to imply quite assertively, but is for the long term future of the club. The club is now in that position, which essentially means that the next phase of DRFC is probably not too far around the corner.

Unfortunately there are some people that simply have deaf ears to the facts or are even don’t accept what you have said as fact.
They expect TB to keep ploughing in more of his money in to fund the playing budget.
Well it’s his choice and he obviously doesn’t want to do that anymore. We should all be very thankful for what he has done for the club.

We just have to hope there is someone out there who is prepared to bank roll the club to get us to where we all want to be. But we don’t want the wrong investor(s)
It is vital that TB sells to someone who is 100% genuine and wants to see the club achieve what we the supporters want.
I am sure he will do everything in his powers to make sure that happens.

Excellent points.

It's perfectly fine to want more and a potential change whilst also praising actions from the past.  Much the same as with JR, it needed a change in the end (time dictates it always will) but that should never over-ride the achievements of the past.

[EasyforDennis]

Than you Mr. Silent Majority for clarifying the position.
It appears that for most of the last 20 years our club's existance has been sustained by altruism.
I strongly suspect that if the current owners could find acceptable buyers they would do so.

The last 20 years? Not so sure about that.

I'm convinced that JR was definitely acting out of instinct and a love for the club when he initially took on the ownership and control of DRFC. But I'm also convinced that as time went by he fell in love with being the Chairman of a football club and the status that comes with that. Much the same as our current Chairman I would suggest.

The one individual who has been spending his money without a selfish motive whatsoever is TB. He's also contributed more cash than any individual in my lifetime. And, he's always said that if a reasonable buyer came along he would sell up and let someone else have the club. He's also said that he wanted to get the club into a sustainable position so that it's future is assured. Being sustainable isn't about him saving money as some people seem to imply quite assertively, but is for the long term future of the club. The club is now in that position, which essentially means that the next phase of DRFC is probably not too far around the corner.

Unfortunately there are some people that simply have deaf ears to the facts or are even don’t accept what you have said as fact.
They expect TB to keep ploughing in more of his money in to fund the playing budget.
Well it’s his choice and he obviously doesn’t want to do that anymore. We should all be very thankful for what he has done for the club.

We just have to hope there is someone out there who is prepared to bank roll the club to get us to where we all want to be. But we don’t want the wrong investor(s)
It is vital that TB sells to someone who is 100% genuine and wants to see the club achieve what we the supporters want.
I am sure he will do everything in his powers to make sure that happens.

So in a nutshell.
JR took us up to a level and then couldn't afford to continue putting more in.
TB has taken us down to a level where he no longer wishes to continue putting more in.

[steve@dcfd]

Than you Mr. Silent Majority for clarifying the position.
It appears that for most of the last 20 years our club's existance has been sustained by altruism.
I strongly suspect that if the current owners could find acceptable buyers they would do so.

The last 20 years? Not so sure about that.

I'm convinced that JR was definitely acting out of instinct and a love for the club when he initially took on the ownership and control of DRFC. But I'm also convinced that as time went by he fell in love with being the Chairman of a football club and the status that comes with that. Much the same as our current Chairman I would suggest.

The one individual who has been spending his money without a selfish motive whatsoever is TB. He's also contributed more cash than any individual in my lifetime. And, he's always said that if a reasonable buyer came along he would sell up and let someone else have the club. He's also said that he wanted to get the club into a sustainable position so that it's future is assured. Being sustainable isn't about him saving money as some people seem to imply quite assertively, but is for the long term future of the club. The club is now in that position, which essentially means that the next phase of DRFC is probably not too far around the corner.

Unfortunately there are some people that simply have deaf ears to the facts or are even don’t accept what you have said as fact.
They expect TB to keep ploughing in more of his money in to fund the playing budget.
Well it’s his choice and he obviously doesn’t want to do that anymore. We should all be very thankful for what he has done for the club.

We just have to hope there is someone out there who is prepared to bank roll the club to get us to where we all want to be. But we don’t want the wrong investor(s)
It is vital that TB sells to someone who is 100% genuine and wants to see the club achieve what we the supporters want.
I am sure he will do everything in his powers to make sure that happens.

The start of the season and say this again, as you keep saying supporters wanting TB to put more money in, the Chairman said we would Bounce Back Decisively the funds were available.
So as I’ve said before do the regime know what funds are required to BBD. Funds were available in January yet we have found it challenging with loan fees and players wages as we don’t pay transfer fees.
The Chairman set the expectations and unless we get promoted didn’t know what he was talking about when comes to resources.

[i_ateallthepies]

SM, you repeat the opinion that the club is now in a position of being sustainable but as several posters on here have commented (without reply as far as I have seen) it cannot be taken that it gives the club an assured long-term future.  There are many variables in the equation for a football club; attendances, gate receipts and sponsorships being particularly relevant.  This season's club expenditure may well be equalled by it's income but given the product presently being served up (poor entertainment value and poor results) it cannot be assumed that attendances next season will continue at this season's level.  Gate receipts and the value to sponsors could certainly decline further and may continue in a downward spiral.

It seems more than coincidental that the pursuit of the holy grail of sustainability has been achieved in parallel with a two-year long decline in our ability to compete on the field of play.  That doesn't seem like a self sustaining club to me.

Let me be clear I wholeheartedly support the drive to maximise revenue streams in order to improve the club's prospects, who wouldn't? but for the reasons given above I don't see how it can ensure the club's future and to call it sustainability feels to me like someone trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

[ravenrover]

But it's self sustainability with the backup of funds from TB as and when required, as I understand it

[i_ateallthepies]

As I understand what has been said, Raven, the example given to explain TB's input is that he would step in to ease cashflow issues if and when they arise.

[silent majority]

SM, you repeat the opinion that the club is now in a position of being sustainable but as several posters on here have commented (without reply as far as I have seen) it cannot be taken that it gives the club an assured long-term future.  There are many variables in the equation for a football club; attendances, gate receipts and sponsorships being particularly relevant.  This season's club expenditure may well be equalled by it's income but given the product presently being served up (poor entertainment value and poor results) it cannot be assumed that attendances next season will continue at this season's level.  Gate receipts and the value to sponsors could certainly decline further and may continue in a downward spiral.

It seems more than coincidental that the pursuit of the holy grail of sustainability has been achieved in parallel with a two-year long decline in our ability to compete on the field of play.  That doesn't seem like a self sustaining club to me.

Let me be clear I wholeheartedly support the drive to maximise revenue streams in order to improve the club's prospects, who wouldn't? but for the reasons given above I don't see how it can ensure the club's future and to call it sustainability feels to me like someone trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Firstly, it's not an opinion, its a fact. And of course you're correct in that it cannot be taken as a given that we will remain sustainable for the foreseeable future, but all I'm doing is repeating what the owners have been telling us for the last few years. It was a goal for TB that he would continue to fund the club to a level until Club Doncaster achieved a position where it was no longer necessary.

But I'm struggling to understand a couple of things. One being that because sustainability isn't 100% a given then we shouldn't attempt to try? Or maybe because it's football then sustainability should be ignored because owners should be expected to fund the club out of their own pockets? Is that what fans want? I've seen it stated, even on this forum, that now TB and Co are the devil incarnate because they are no longer having to dip into their own pockets. And I state the words 'having to'. It doesn't mean they no longer will.

But lets be real here, if we aren't sustainable next season then we'll be pretty close to it and surely that still makes DRFC an attractive club to own? As I said to somebody on Saturday who tried to tell me that TB had been offered £20m for the club (he knew this for a fact) and that TB was holding out for £25m, why would he do that? He's never suggested that was the point of his ownership. And a further point I made was that if you wanted to buy a business and had the choice of two, one had debts of £xm and one had no debt which one would you buy?

But I fail to see how can it be that someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes by claiming the club is sustainable. Why would you do that, it just doesn't make any sense. As a further point (one I've made a few times on here) our income streams are more diverse than most clubs in the lower leagues, our commercial revenue performance is stronger than most EFL clubs and our income structure looks more like an EPL club than an EFL club.

I also fail to see why sustainability is such a taboo subject. In industry sustainability is a common theme and so it should be. In football its also a common theme and was one of the drivers we had when putting the case for the Fan Led Review. The point is nobody want to lose their club and the more sustainable the football industry becomes the likelihood of that happening is greatly reduced.

Here's a link to a whole discussion on the sustainability of football clubs. Its currently only covering the top two divisions but the hope is that it covers the next two division soon;

https://www.fairgameuk.org/sustainability-index

[ravenrover]

As I understand what has been said, Raven, the example given to explain TB's input is that he would step in to ease cashflow issues if and when they arise.

Do you know that looks just about what I said, but thanks for the clarification

[Campsall rover]

Why don’t some get it.

The budget last season was good enough to be mid table.
The budget this season was good enough for at least a play off finish.

So I say it again. Do the board do the player recruitment? No they don’t do they.  So it’s the managers fault we are where we are.
DM left us in the mire. A squad full of loans who could care less.

Yes the board made mistakes with Butler, Wellens and GM but hindsight eh. Who would have expected Wellens to take us to the bottom 4.
The budget was not spent well.

So if people don’t understand that what goes on on the field I has very little to do with them. They don’t kick the ball.
The performance on the field has been way below the budgets provided should have achieved.

All this cheap skate stuff is just cheap jibes with no foundation.
Get a grip some of you.
It’s not us with so called rose tinted glasses, it’s those with a total lack of any grasp of reality that have a problem.

[steve@dcfd]

Let’s stop going back to DM.
We are sustainable we been told.
We were told by the Chairman that we had the funds to get in the top three.
Which players that we signed this season were wrong signings for the money we had.
How much of the playoff budget was covering already contracted players  we had.
The loan signings in the summer can’t have been big loan fees.
We haven’t paid transfer fees for a player.
Reality is there for all to see.
Did the Chairman have a good grasp of reality when he said we would BBD.
Did McSheffrey have a good grasp of reality when he said we would finish in the top three.
We will all see what is the reality in the next 3.5 months

[roversdude]

CR absolutely bang on - I’m quite happy with my rose tinted glasses, am I happy with the league position am I fck but we are very much work in progress

[Spilsby Red]

There’s no point in reasoning with some people. They see it how they want to see it. SM gives good reasoning as he is close to the facts. Believe what he says. Why would he lie. But some people don’t want to see what’s in front of them.

[Donny Exile in York]

Why don’t some get it.

The budget last season was good enough to be mid table.
The budget this season was good enough for at least a play off finish.

So I say it again. Do the board do the player recruitment? No they don’t do they.  So it’s the managers fault we are where we are.
DM left us in the mire. A squad full of loans who could care less.

Yes the board made mistakes with Butler, Wellens and GM but hindsight eh. Who would have expected Wellens to take us to the bottom 4.
The budget was not spent well.

So if people don’t understand that what goes on on the field I has very little to do with them. They don’t kick the ball.
The performance on the field has been way below the budgets provided should have achieved.

All this cheap skate stuff is just cheap jibes with no foundation.
Get a grip some of you.
It’s not us with so called rose tinted glasses, it’s those with a total lack of any grasp of reality that have a problem.

Campsall i am sorry but with all respect, and i have agreed with some of your sensible posts recently, but you are talking nonsense. Look at the squad, look at the quality in it. It is decreased significantly, to the point that before Lavery came in (and i am not commenting on his signing until he has had a run of games), we have had one striker really available and fit, to be expected to mount a serious promotion challenge? Get real. If anything had happened to Miller first half of the season we would have been stuffed, for our so called good budget. Agard doesn't look like he can do 45 minutes, never mind 90, and Griffiths must be so unfit that he can't even compete with Agard for 20 minutes on the pitch. And that's just the strikers!

And to sweep the appointments of Butler, Wellens and GM under the carpet as we all make mistakes, all in hindsight, we are where we (won't swear) are, cos of these HUGE mistakes, that and the awful mistakes in recruitment, Whiteman goes, we bring in Journeyman Bostock and Bogle. I said 2 years ago when we were on a bad run under Butler we needed a real statement of investment or we would be in BIG trouble, many on here sneered, ah no way will we get relegated, still aiming for league one play offs, couldn't see how bad our rot had commenced, so yes people did expect Wellens to land us in the bottom 4 given the previous half a season. It was clear where our direction of travel was taking us. Lots of spin on here at the time. Well now we are 15th in league two, so much for the bounce back decisively. I think players like Lakin and Miller might bode well with potential, but our squad depth, particularly up front is awful, no real pace or physical strength as an option, no consistency generally and awful mistakes at the back by even our most experienced defenders.

Clearly the Sustainability strategy is with a view to selling the club (let's hope so). But as others have posted on here, it can be a perpetual decline, sustainable to the level of revenue aligned to attendances, shirt sales etc. If performances are bad, results bad, season ticket sales will decline as will match day attendances generally, and therefore our sustainable budget is to a reduced quality again, and then next moment, we will be a good sustainable National League club, proud of how sustainable we are beating Maidenhead at home or the like. There is an old adage that i hope someone has reminded Bramall of recently, 'you can't take your money with you when you've gone'. Clearly there is no passion by our owners to the extent they are willing to invest in a successful football club, other than paper over cashflow requirements, so let's hope we do manage to find someone with the passion as a fan like a JR, a Tony Stewart dare i say at Rotherham, to bring some much needed pride back to the club and performances and results on the pitch where it actually matters!

I saw in another post Campsall you said something along the lines that after the next transfer window we weren't in the play offs by October you would be really angry. And i don't mean to pick you out, honestly, but i read it after the last two years and thought wow, unbeleivable, i applaud your patience of a saint attitude, but Rotherham 0-5 at home, 0-6 in the JPT or equivalent, 0-6 to Ipswich, 1-4 Wigan at home, 1-4 Peterborough at home, 0-4 at Cheltenham, 0-4 at Charlton, this season, the dire performances at Hartlepool, Colchester, Tranmere, Carlisle, Mansfield last week, when is it going to hit home that we are getting spanked and as fans pride crushed cos of the strategy of our Board?! When will some of you on here say wow we are crap, this isan't going well, our Board are not investing and performances are in consistent at best. Yes we are fans and support through thick and thin, but we have a right cos we are fans to challenge the status quo when things aren't going right, thats what fans should do! The last two years have been dire, and yes we've all been there, or the older fans amongst us under Richardson, also in the late 80s and early 90s, but the results above are as bad individually and collectively as at any time in 30 to 40 years, barring the 1997-98 season. So what next Autumn if we are 10th or 12th, yes all teams have bad times, but doesn't mean we should not be vocal or challenge the owners for what the set out as deliverable, 5 year plans, decisively bouncing back, and then getting spanked away from home on a consistent basis this season! or at home over the last two years.

I get fan loyalty, i'm a season ticket holder like most of you through thick and thin, we all love this great club of ours, but it doesn't mean i should support the club come what may when i think it is being managed badly. Look at the transfer fiasco of a year or so ago, how contrary that is to JR tapping up McIndoe to sign in the toilets of an Award ceremony back in the day, or when we prided ourselves we never do our business on the last day of the window, what a contrast to the mess desperate for the next Kwame Thomas or Rakiesh Bingham to sign on transfer deadline day, we missed out, so landed Joe Dodoo instead! Yes its been bad, and our owners have presided over it 100% of the time.

[Lesonthewest]

Why don’t some get it.

The budget last season was good enough to be mid table.
The budget this season was good enough for at least a play off finish.

So I say it again. Do the board do the player recruitment? No they don’t do they.  So it’s the managers fault we are where we are.
DM left us in the mire. A squad full of loans who could care less.

Yes the board made mistakes with Butler, Wellens and GM but hindsight eh. Who would have expected Wellens to take us to the bottom 4.
The budget was not spent well.

So if people don’t understand that what goes on on the field I has very little to do with them. They don’t kick the ball.
The performance on the field has been way below the budgets provided should have achieved.

All this cheap skate stuff is just cheap jibes with no foundation.
Get a grip some of you.
It’s not us with so called rose tinted glasses, it’s those with a total lack of any grasp of reality that have a problem.

Campsall i am sorry but with all respect, and i have agreed with some of your sensible posts recently, but you are talking nonsense. Look at the squad, look at the quality in it. It is decreased significantly, to the point that before Lavery came in (and i am not commenting on his signing until he has had a run of games), we have had one striker really available and fit, to be expected to mount a serious promotion challenge? Get real. If anything had happened to Miller first half of the season we would have been stuffed, for our so called good budget. Agard doesn't look like he can do 45 minutes, never mind 90, and Griffiths must be so unfit that he can't even compete with Agard for 20 minutes on the pitch. And that's just the strikers!

And to sweep the appointments of Butler, Wellens and GM under the carpet as we all make mistakes, all in hindsight, we are where we (won't swear) are, cos of these HUGE mistakes, that and the awful mistakes in recruitment, Whiteman goes, we bring in Journeyman Bostock and Bogle. I said 2 years ago when we were on a bad run under Butler we needed a real statement of investment or we would be in BIG trouble, many on here sneered, ah no way will we get relegated, still aiming for league one play offs, couldn't see how bad our rot had commenced, so yes people did expect Wellens to land us in the bottom 4 given the previous half a season. It was clear where our direction of travel was taking us. Lots of spin on here at the time. Well now we are 15th in league two, so much for the bounce back decisively. I think players like Lakin and Miller might bode well with potential, but our squad depth, particularly up front is awful, no real pace or physical strength as an option, no consistency generally and awful mistakes at the back.

Clearly the Sustainability strategy is with a view to selling the club (let's hope so). But as others have posted on here, it can be a perpetual decline, sustainable to the level of revenue aligned to attendances, shirt sales etc. If performances are bad, results bad, season ticket sales will decline as will match day attendances generally, and therefore our sustainable budget is to a reduced quality again, and then next moment, we will be a good sustainable National League club, proud of how sustainable we are beating Maidenhead at home or the like. There is an old adage that i hope someone has reminded Bramall of recently, 'you can't take your money with you when you've gone'. Clearly there is no passion by our owners to the extent they are willing to invest in a successful football club, other than paper over cashflow requirements, so let's hope we do manage to find someone with the passion as a fan like a JR, a Tony Stewart dare i say at Rotherham, to bring some much needed pride back to the club and performances and results on the pitch where it actually matters!

I saw in another post Campsall you said something along the lines that after the next transfer window we weren't in the play offs by October you would be really angry. And i don't mean to pick you out, honestly, but i read it after the last two years and thought wow, unbeleivable, i applaud your patience of a saint attitude, but Rotherham 0-5 at home, 0-6 in the JPT or equivalent, 0-6 to Ipswich, 1-4 Wigan at home, 1-4 Peterborough at home, 0-4 at Cheltenham, 0-4 at Charlton, this season, the dire performances at Hartlepool, Colchester, Tranmere, Carlisle, Mansfield last week, when is it going to hit home that we are getting spanked and as fans pride crushed cos of the strategy of our Board?! When will some of you on here say wow we are crap, this isan't going well, our Board are not investing and performances are in consistent at best. Yes we are fans and support through thick and thin, but we have a right cos we are fans to challenge the status quo when things aren't going right, thats what fans should do! The last two years have been dire, and yes we've all been there, or the older fans amongst us under Richardson, also in the late 80s and early 90s, but the results above are as bad individually and collectively as at any time in 30 to 40 years, barring the 1997-98 season. So what next Autumn if we are 10th or 12th, yes all teams have bad times, but doesn't mean we should not be vocal or challenge the owners for what the set out as deliverable, 5 year plans, decisively bouncing back, and then getting spanked away from home on a consistent basis!

Excellent post, totally agree.

[no eyed deer]

Why don’t some get it.

The budget last season was good enough to be mid table.
The budget this season was good enough for at least a play off finish.

So I say it again. Do the board do the player recruitment? No they don’t do they.  So it’s the managers fault we are where we are.
DM left us in the mire. A squad full of loans who could care less.

Yes the board made mistakes with Butler, Wellens and GM but hindsight eh. Who would have expected Wellens to take us to the bottom 4.
The budget was not spent well.

So if people don’t understand that what goes on on the field I has very little to do with them. They don’t kick the ball.
The performance on the field has been way below the budgets provided should have achieved.

All this cheap skate stuff is just cheap jibes with no foundation.
Get a grip some of you.
It’s not us with so called rose tinted glasses, it’s those with a total lack of any grasp of reality that have a problem.

Campsall i am sorry but with all respect, and i have agreed with some of your sensible posts recently, but you are talking nonsense. Look at the squad, look at the quality in it. It is decreased significantly, to the point that before Lavery came in (and i am not commenting on his signing until he has had a run of games), we have had one striker really available and fit, to be expected to mount a serious promotion challenge? Get real. If anything had happened to Miller first half of the season we would have been stuffed, for our so called good budget. Agard doesn't look like he can do 45 minutes, never mind 90, and Griffiths must be so unfit that he can't even compete with Agard for 20 minutes on the pitch. And that's just the strikers!

And to sweep the appointments of Butler, Wellens and GM under the carpet as we all make mistakes, all in hindsight, we are where we (won't swear) are, cos of these HUGE mistakes, that and the awful mistakes in recruitment, Whiteman goes, we bring in Journeyman Bostock and Bogle. I said 2 years ago when we were on a bad run under Butler we needed a real statement of investment or we would be in BIG trouble, many on here sneered, ah no way will we get relegated, still aiming for league one play offs, couldn't see how bad our rot had commenced, so yes people did expect Wellens to land us in the bottom 4 given the previous half a season. It was clear where our direction of travel was taking us. Lots of spin on here at the time. Well now we are 15th in league two, so much for the bounce back decisively. I think players like Lakin and Miller might bode well with potential, but our squad depth, particularly up front is awful, no real pace or physical strength as an option, no consistency generally and awful mistakes at the back.

Clearly the Sustainability strategy is with a view to selling the club (let's hope so). But as others have posted on here, it can be a perpetual decline, sustainable to the level of revenue aligned to attendances, shirt sales etc. If performances are bad, results bad, season ticket sales will decline as will match day attendances generally, and therefore our sustainable budget is to a reduced quality again, and then next moment, we will be a good sustainable National League club, proud of how sustainable we are beating Maidenhead at home or the like. There is an old adage that i hope someone has reminded Bramall of recently, 'you can't take your money with you when you've gone'. Clearly there is no passion by our owners to the extent they are willing to invest in a successful football club, other than paper over cashflow requirements, so let's hope we do manage to find someone with the passion as a fan like a JR, a Tony Stewart dare i say at Rotherham, to bring some much needed pride back to the club and performances and results on the pitch where it actually matters!

I saw in another post Campsall you said something along the lines that after the next transfer window we weren't in the play offs by October you would be really angry. And i don't mean to pick you out, honestly, but i read it after the last two years and thought wow, unbeleivable, i applaud your patience of a saint attitude, but Rotherham 0-5 at home, 0-6 in the JPT or equivalent, 0-6 to Ipswich, 1-4 Wigan at home, 1-4 Peterborough at home, 0-4 at Cheltenham, 0-4 at Charlton, this season, the dire performances at Hartlepool, Colchester, Tranmere, Carlisle, Mansfield last week, when is it going to hit home that we are getting spanked and as fans pride crushed cos of the strategy of our Board?! When will some of you on here say wow we are crap, this isan't going well, our Board are not investing and performances are in consistent at best. Yes we are fans and support through thick and thin, but we have a right cos we are fans to challenge the status quo when things aren't going right, thats what fans should do! The last two years have been dire, and yes we've all been there, or the older fans amongst us under Richardson, also in the late 80s and early 90s, but the results above are as bad individually and collectively as at any time in 30 to 40 years, barring the 1997-98 season. So what next Autumn if we are 10th or 12th, yes all teams have bad times, but doesn't mean we should not be vocal or challenge the owners for what the set out as deliverable, 5 year plans, decisively bouncing back, and then getting spanked away from home on a consistent basis!

Excellent post, totally agree.

Me too.

[Chris Black come back]

Whatever the cause, it is undeniable that we have been playing terrible football, recruiting abjectly, and dropping like a stone, for the last two years and matters are getting worse, not better.

We are in the bottom half of the lowest professional tier in the English game. Look at who we are playing against and we can’t string two passes together let alone two performances.

The last time we had such a bad season at this level was 1997/98 and what we knew then was that we had hit the very bottom and the dreadful situation could only improve. I really don’t know if we have hit the bottom yet.

[no eyed deer]

Whatever the cause, it is undeniable that we have been playing terrible football, recruiting abjectly, and dropping like a stone, for the last two years and matters are getting worse, not better.

We are in the bottom half of the lowest professional tier in the English game. Look at who we are playing against and we can’t string two passes together let alone two performances.

The last time we had such a bad season at this level was 1997/98 and what we knew then was that we had hit the very bottom and the dreadful situation could only improve. I really don’t know if we have hit the bottom yet.

It is so sad to see, this window just shows the direction we are going

[Campsall rover]

Ok so Copps is a liar, GB is a liar, DB is a liar and TB is a liar.

The budget was bottom 4 last season and it’s about 12/15 this season.

Ok you lot have it your way.

If you can’t see that the budget’s in 2021 wasn’t spent effectively and that set the rot in. Players under contract that you can’t always ship out when you need to which allows funds to recruit new players.
Recruitment this last summer 2022 was much  improved.

The players we have in our squad this season are without question imo good enough for a top 7 finish in this league.
They have under performed big time.
GM tactically and motivational was very poor hence our nose dive after a great start of 4 wins 2 draws.
DS is tinkering with personnel, formations and tactics to such a degree that we are very inconsistent. He hasn’t sorted out our defence hence we leak goals.
Now if anyone thinks that
Mitchell, Knoyle/Brown, Anderson, Olowu, Maxwell, Rowe, Close, Biggins, Hurst, Molyneux, Miller don’t all have enough ability to be a team that finishes top 7 in this very average league then you have a different opinion to me.
That doesn’t mean we will finish top 7 There is a difference obviously as we have W11 D4 L11 so bang in mid table.
So we have underachieved.
That’s not TB or DB or GB or Copps fault.
It is GM and DS’s fault. They were and are the coaches. It is up to them to get the team playing to their optimum.

Give DS time though.
Gosh this is getting tiresome, I am repeating myself day after day.

The board have done their bit now it up to the coach and players to produce.

[RugbyRover]

Why don’t some get it.

The budget last season was good enough to be mid table.
The budget this season was good enough for at least a play off finish.

So I say it again. Do the board do the player recruitment? No they don’t do they.  So it’s the managers fault we are where we are.
DM left us in the mire. A squad full of loans who could care less.

Yes the board made mistakes with Butler, Wellens and GM but hindsight eh. Who would have expected Wellens to take us to the bottom 4.
The budget was not spent well.

So if people don’t understand that what goes on on the field I has very little to do with them. They don’t kick the ball.
The performance on the field has been way below the budgets provided should have achieved.

All this cheap skate stuff is just cheap jibes with no foundation.
Get a grip some of you.
It’s not us with so called rose tinted glasses, it’s those with a total lack of any grasp of reality that have a problem.

Campsall i am sorry but with all respect, and i have agreed with some of your sensible posts recently, but you are talking nonsense. Look at the squad, look at the quality in it. It is decreased significantly, to the point that before Lavery came in (and i am not commenting on his signing until he has had a run of games), we have had one striker really available and fit, to be expected to mount a serious promotion challenge? Get real. If anything had happened to Miller first half of the season we would have been stuffed, for our so called good budget. Agard doesn't look like he can do 45 minutes, never mind 90, and Griffiths must be so unfit that he can't even compete with Agard for 20 minutes on the pitch. And that's just the strikers!

And to sweep the appointments of Butler, Wellens and GM under the carpet as we all make mistakes, all in hindsight, we are where we (won't swear) are, cos of these HUGE mistakes, that and the awful mistakes in recruitment, Whiteman goes, we bring in Journeyman Bostock and Bogle. I said 2 years ago when we were on a bad run under Butler we needed a real statement of investment or we would be in BIG trouble, many on here sneered, ah no way will we get relegated, still aiming for league one play offs, couldn't see how bad our rot had commenced, so yes people did expect Wellens to land us in the bottom 4 given the previous half a season. It was clear where our direction of travel was taking us. Lots of spin on here at the time. Well now we are 15th in league two, so much for the bounce back decisively. I think players like Lakin and Miller might bode well with potential, but our squad depth, particularly up front is awful, no real pace or physical strength as an option, no consistency generally and awful mistakes at the back.

Clearly the Sustainability strategy is with a view to selling the club (let's hope so). But as others have posted on here, it can be a perpetual decline, sustainable to the level of revenue aligned to attendances, shirt sales etc. If performances are bad, results bad, season ticket sales will decline as will match day attendances generally, and therefore our sustainable budget is to a reduced quality again, and then next moment, we will be a good sustainable National League club, proud of how sustainable we are beating Maidenhead at home or the like. There is an old adage that i hope someone has reminded Bramall of recently, 'you can't take your money with you when you've gone'. Clearly there is no passion by our owners to the extent they are willing to invest in a successful football club, other than paper over cashflow requirements, so let's hope we do manage to find someone with the passion as a fan like a JR, a Tony Stewart dare i say at Rotherham, to bring some much needed pride back to the club and performances and results on the pitch where it actually matters!

I saw in another post Campsall you said something along the lines that after the next transfer window we weren't in the play offs by October you would be really angry. And i don't mean to pick you out, honestly, but i read it after the last two years and thought wow, unbeleivable, i applaud your patience of a saint attitude, but Rotherham 0-5 at home, 0-6 in the JPT or equivalent, 0-6 to Ipswich, 1-4 Wigan at home, 1-4 Peterborough at home, 0-4 at Cheltenham, 0-4 at Charlton, this season, the dire performances at Hartlepool, Colchester, Tranmere, Carlisle, Mansfield last week, when is it going to hit home that we are getting spanked and as fans pride crushed cos of the strategy of our Board?! When will some of you on here say wow we are crap, this isan't going well, our Board are not investing and performances are in consistent at best. Yes we are fans and support through thick and thin, but we have a right cos we are fans to challenge the status quo when things aren't going right, thats what fans should do! The last two years have been dire, and yes we've all been there, or the older fans amongst us under Richardson, also in the late 80s and early 90s, but the results above are as bad individually and collectively as at any time in 30 to 40 years, barring the 1997-98 season. So what next Autumn if we are 10th or 12th, yes all teams have bad times, but doesn't mean we should not be vocal or challenge the owners for what the set out as deliverable, 5 year plans, decisively bouncing back, and then getting spanked away from home on a consistent basis!

Excellent post, totally agree.

Me too.

Me too

[EasyforDennis]

Ok so Copps is a liar, GB is a liar, DB is a liar and TB is a liar.

The budget was bottom 4 last season and it’s about 12/15 this season.

Ok you lot have it your way.

If you can’t see that the budget’s in 2021 wasn’t spent effectively and that set the rot in. Players under contract that you can’t always ship out when you need to which allows funds to recruit new players.
Recruitment this last summer 2022 was much  improved.

The players we have in our squad this season are without question imo good enough for a top 7 finish in this league.
They have under performed big time.
GM tactically and motivational was very poor hence our nose dive after a great start of 4 wins 2 draws.
DS is tinkering with personnel, formations and tactics to such a degree that we are very inconsistent. He hasn’t sorted out our defence hence we leak goals.
Now if anyone thinks that
Mitchell, Knoyle/Brown, Anderson, Olowu, Maxwell, Rowe, Close, Biggins, Hurst, Molyneux, Miller don’t all have enough ability to be a team that finishes top 7 in this very average league then you have a different opinion to me.
That doesn’t mean we will finish top 7 There is a difference obviously as we have W11 D4 L11 so bang in mid table.
So we have underachieved.
That’s not TB or DB or GB or Copps fault.
It is GM and DS’s fault. They were and are the coaches. It is up to them to get the team playing to their optimum.

Give DS time though.
Gosh this is getting tiresome, I am repeating myself day after day.

The board have done their bit now it up to the coach and players to produce.

All about opinions eh? Sorry but along with quite a few others I disagree.

[Donny Exile in York]

Now it's DSs fault is it. I am not the one criticising the manager, not this one. We have young inconsistent players. Maybe some will come good. And don't get me started on Molyneux. Never sign a player from Hartlepool, I remember us signing a lad highly rated from Hartlepool before called Halliday who flattered to deceive and everytime I watch Molyneux I grow more frustrated, weve seen very little end product and output just a Grealish wamma be.

I'm not saying that we don't have players capable and with potential. Hirst has been a good signing. But McCann, Moore, Ferguson, Dickov, Knoyle, and probably others have referred to our lack of ambition, clear signs that not all is right and supported by hard core fact of absolute dreadful slide over 3 seasons.

I actually think there is alot of inverse thinking on this forum. The happy clappers are deemed loyal and for the regime, the doom and gloom merchants negative in their outlook and too critical. Well I actually think the opposite is true. Alot on here deemed as happy clappers think 'it could be worse' 'be grateful we have a club' 'becareful what you wish for' mentality. Granted we only need ro look at Scunny or our own bad owner Uncle Ken for examples. But thar view is definitely glass half empty and seeing the worst.

The doom and gloom mongers I think criticise not because we are disloyal but cos we too love the club, care also, but I actually think alot see where we came from and where we got to, the 3 promotions, the new ground, going from.2000 gates to 12000 average and unbelievably a number of 13000+ attendances and the years in the championship from non league and saw the potential, the stadium, and believe that is achievable with the right support, Doncaster been a city, football being cyclical, why can't we compete with towns like Burnley, clubs like our rivals Rotherham and Barnsley. Now who is deemed over optimistic or a dreamer but our rise to the championship was a dream.back in the 80s and early 90s and we proved it achievable. So that's a positive view, the club could do much better than it is right now. And I know Campsall that you believe in our potential to rise again too.

[Chris Black come back]

Stephen Halliday. We signed him from Motherwell. Had been at Hartlepool United at the start of his career though.

[Donny Exile in York]

Stephen Halliday. We signed him from Motherwell. Had been at Hartlepool United at the start of his career though.

Yeah he had been at Hartlepool until a year or so before and there for most of his career. Was absolutely garbage for all the hype. Would say same about signing players from Rochdale, dont tend to be great in general either. Accept there is always the exception that proves the rule.

[tyke1962]

A sustainable club is a very decent achievement and something to be admired let me say that .

From the outside looking in as a Tyke financial sustainability is going to be massively difficult to negotiate if Rovers want to progress at the top end of league one and challenge for a place in the championship .

I'm not convinced by any means its possible to have a self sustaining model and the kind of success Rovers fans want to see again .

Just look at the size and budgets of the club's we are currently competing against at the top of league one , even if three make it to the championship this season they will be replaced by equally big clubs in Huddersfield Town , Wigan or Hull City plus those three other clubs who won't make it back up this season .

Of course this  isn't the current Rovers owners fault but it is the way football is now and it's not changing anytime soon .

We've been away from League One for three seasons but I can tell you from what I've seen this season it's a much different kettle of fish than the one we left in 2019 .

The difference in class between the top six and to a lesser extent Peterborough and Wycombe and the rest of the league is extraordinary .

However that in itself is problematic because trying to get promoted and finishing above Bolton , Derby County , Wednesday , Ipswich Town and Plymouth Argyle is a nightmare .

With all due respect given the size of these clubs can Rovers realistically remain self sustainable and compete at the top end of league one in this climate ?

To put it in perspective we are just about clinging on to their coat-tails and there's five players in our team who all cost over a million quid and in the 8 to 10k per week wage bracket and what's more alarming is that they'd all or have struggled as championship players .

Football is absolutely mental where Rovers aspire to be .

[roversdude]

Ok so Copps is a liar, GB is a liar, DB is a liar and TB is a liar.

The budget was bottom 4 last season and it’s about 12/15 this season.

Ok you lot have it your way.

If you can’t see that the budget’s in 2021 wasn’t spent effectively and that set the rot in. Players under contract that you can’t always ship out when you need to which allows funds to recruit new players.
Recruitment this last summer 2022 was much  improved.

The players we have in our squad this season are without question imo good enough for a top 7 finish in this league.
They have under performed big time.
GM tactically and motivational was very poor hence our nose dive after a great start of 4 wins 2 draws.
DS is tinkering with personnel, formations and tactics to such a degree that we are very inconsistent. He hasn’t sorted out our defence hence we leak goals.
Now if anyone thinks that
Mitchell, Knoyle/Brown, Anderson, Olowu, Maxwell, Rowe, Close, Biggins, Hurst, Molyneux, Miller don’t all have enough ability to be a team that finishes top 7 in this very average league then you have a different opinion to me.
That doesn’t mean we will finish top 7 There is a difference obviously as we have W11 D4 L11 so bang in mid table.
So we have underachieved.
That’s not TB or DB or GB or Copps fault.
It is GM and DS’s fault. They were and are the coaches. It is up to them to get the team playing to their optimum.

Give DS time though.
Gosh this is getting tiresome, I am repeating myself day after day.

The board have done their bit now it up to the coach and players to produce.

All about opinions eh? Sorry but along with quite a few others I disagree.

And quite a few agree

[no eyed deer]

A sustainable club is a very decent achievement and something to be admired let me say that .

From the outside looking in as a Tyke financial sustainability is going to be massively difficult to negotiate if Rovers want to progress at the top end of league one and challenge for a place in the championship .

I'm not convinced by any means its possible to have a self sustaining model and the kind of success Rovers fans want to see again .

Just look at the size and budgets of the club's we are currently competing against at the top of league one , even if three make it to the championship this season they will be replaced by equally big clubs in Huddersfield Town , Wigan or Hull City plus those three other clubs who won't make it back up this season .

Of course this  isn't the current Rovers owners fault but it is the way football is now and it's not changing anytime soon .

We've been away from League One for three seasons but I can tell you from what I've seen this season it's a much different kettle of fish than the one we left in 2019 .

The difference in class between the top six and to a lesser extent Peterborough and Wycombe and the rest of the league is extraordinary .

However that in itself is problematic because trying to get promoted and finishing above Bolton , Derby County , Wednesday , Ipswich Town and Plymouth Argyle is a nightmare .

With all due respect given the size of these clubs can Rovers realistically remain self sustainable and compete at the top end of league one in this climate ?

To put it in perspective we are just about clinging on to their coat-tails and there's five players in our team who all cost over a million quid and in the 8 to 10k per week wage bracket and what's more alarming is that they'd all or have struggled as championship players .

Football is absolutely mental where Rovers aspire to be .

Tyke, we are fans of lower league clubs. We don't aspire to be anywhere..... Just not on a boat without a rudder.

[Michael Shaw]

Donny Exile, thanks for probably the best post I have ever read on this site.

[Michael Shaw]

Tyke, only when your club is in the bottom of league two can you understand how so many fans feel.