Danny Schofield

[BigH]

I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.

My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.

As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.

This.

I agree with MM to a degree. The team has been crying out for big characters and leadership on the pitch since Whiteman left. The fact that this has been studiously ignored by the footballing hierarchy is baffling. It’s almost as if they’ve been too nesh to engage with anyone who might be ‘bigger’ than them.

None of the last four managers seems to have even tried to address our footballing mentality. I think that Schofields problem is that he also doesn’t appear to be trying on this front and, being the latest in line, he’s now bearing the brunt of fan frustration.

JRs interview on another thread drew a sharp contrast; a willingness to embrace big personalities and take calculated risks as part of driving the club forward. Not ‘fannying about at the back’!

[selby]

  McSheffrey was got rid of because he didn't agree with the recruitment of players who they were giving him to work with and him having very little say in them.  He has been proved right.

[danumdon]

I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.

My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.

As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.

1, So the players are mentally gone,

2, DS is doing what he can with them.

3, Playing out from the back is what we're least bad at,

4, The most limited group of players in 20 years.

Dear me, where do you start, we know everyone has an opinion.

1, Could this have something to do with the flawed process that is being forced on them? some of these players are barely recognisable from their previous standards, no one bar maybe Maxwell have performed under this regime.

2, DS has come in and limpet like will not deviate from his preferred systems, so after the catalogue of disasters that we have had to witness we can say that DS is doing ALL he can?

3, Don't agree with this one iota, if we are to think that our efforts at playing out from the back is our least worse option then we really should pack it in and call it a day, we are a football club, of all the myriad way's of executing a game to settle on such a limited and debunked system that even premiership clubs have trouble in performing is idiotic and a lapse in duty from the management, its akin to saying to all the teams in our division we surrender and you can do with us what you wish, we could play a reasonable 4231 or even a 442 with the personnel we have available and play a fluid and attacking style, we may get beat, yes, just like the present but at least we would have giving it a go and not rolled over and allowed the opposition to tickle our bellies like the present"playing it out from the back" is leading to.

4, This "most limited group of players in 20 years" at the start of the season had most of us thinking we should be able to at least achieve a play off position, some thought more. To virtually destroy the mental willingness of the squad in the manner we have witnessed is criminal, the players are in effect performing like addicts who have had their hits removed, a manger with gumption and experience would of had this group playing far closer to their handicap then the current regime, undoubtedly.

[Campsall rover]

I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.

My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.

As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.

1, So the players are mentally gone,

2, DS is doing what he can with them.

3, Playing out from the back is what we're least bad at,

4, The most limited group of players in 20 years.

Dear me, where do you start, we know everyone has an opinion.

1, Could this have something to do with the flawed process that is being forced on them? some of these players are barely recognisable from their previous standards, no one bar maybe Maxwell have performed under this regime.

2, DS has come in and limpet like will not deviate from his preferred systems, so after the catalogue of disasters that we have had to witness we can say that DS is doing ALL he can?

3, Don't agree with this one iota, if we are to think that our efforts at playing out from the back is our least worse option then we really should pack it in and call it a day, we are a football club, of all the myriad way's of executing a game to settle on such a limited and debunked system that even premiership clubs have trouble in performing is idiotic and a lapse in duty from the management, its akin to saying to all the teams in our division we surrender and you can do with us what you wish, we could play a reasonable 4231 or even a 442 with the personnel we have available and play a fluid and attacking style, we may get beat, yes, just like the present but at least we would have giving it a go and not rolled over and allowed the opposition to tickle our bellies like the present"playing it out from the back" is leading to.

4, This "most limited group of players in 20 years" at the start of the season had most of us thinking we should be able to at least achieve a play off position, some thought more. To virtually destroy the mental willingness of the squad in the manner we have witnessed is criminal, the players are in effect performing like addicts who have had their hits removed, a manger with gumption and experience would of had this group playing far closer to their handicap then the current regime, undoubtedly.

100% correct.
We have a coaching staff who quite frankly are not fit for purpose.
Only Maxwell has made any improvement as a player.
Our 2 brightest sparks under GmS Hurst and Miller have deteriorated alarmingly under this coach.
He has destroyed all the players, both their collective and individual confidence and the results and team performances is all the evidence needed to back that up.

You can only play this 5-2-3 if you have 2 very good midfielders in that 2 & if you have a big physically strong centre forward.
We have neither of those positions covered with what’s needed to play this formation. ( Even with a 100% fit squad )
Yet DS has persisted with this formation for 30 league games which we have managed to get 31 points from.
That’s equivalent to 48/49 points over 46 games & would take you down to the National league in many seasons.
For any Coach not to try something that might just suit the players we have such as 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2
The latter being my preference.
It is not only short sighted but is showing how inflexible, stubborn and blinkered he is, to such a degree it’s bordering on insanity.
How many games and at what stage of the season and position in the table would we have to be in would it take for him to change it.
If he had started the season, with his current points total converted to 44 games we would now be sitting in 21st position in the table.
Yes only Crawley, Hartlepool & Rochdale below us.

If that gives anyone confidence for next season then I would like what you’re on please.

[roversdude]

CR not only that but his total lack of being able to impact a game with substitutes shows for me he’s not ready.
I accept he’s been dealt a bit of a duff hand with the injuries but so have other teams and they adapt. Thinking about have injuries been accentuated by the system-would Miller, Lavery et Al have picked up injuries if they weren’t ploughing a lone furrow up top (purely hypothetical of course)
How many times have we on the sidelines been screaming for fresh legs but nothing changes until the game is lost.
The players at Stevenage were absolutely lost in if they should play it short or hoof it upfield there didn’t appear to be any plan.
Winning breeds confidence so I dread to think where Molyneux and Hurst are right now

[MachoMadness]

I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.

My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.

As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.

1, So the players are mentally gone,

2, DS is doing what he can with them.

3, Playing out from the back is what we're least bad at,

4, The most limited group of players in 20 years.

Dear me, where do you start, we know everyone has an opinion.

1, Could this have something to do with the flawed process that is being forced on them? some of these players are barely recognisable from their previous standards, no one bar maybe Maxwell have performed under this regime.

2, DS has come in and limpet like will not deviate from his preferred systems, so after the catalogue of disasters that we have had to witness we can say that DS is doing ALL he can?

3, Don't agree with this one iota, if we are to think that our efforts at playing out from the back is our least worse option then we really should pack it in and call it a day, we are a football club, of all the myriad way's of executing a game to settle on such a limited and debunked system that even premiership clubs have trouble in performing is idiotic and a lapse in duty from the management, its akin to saying to all the teams in our division we surrender and you can do with us what you wish, we could play a reasonable 4231 or even a 442 with the personnel we have available and play a fluid and attacking style, we may get beat, yes, just like the present but at least we would have giving it a go and not rolled over and allowed the opposition to tickle our bellies like the present"playing it out from the back" is leading to.

4, This "most limited group of players in 20 years" at the start of the season had most of us thinking we should be able to at least achieve a play off position, some thought more. To virtually destroy the mental willingness of the squad in the manner we have witnessed is criminal, the players are in effect performing like addicts who have had their hits removed, a manger with gumption and experience would of had this group playing far closer to their handicap then the current regime, undoubtedly.

1. Yep.
2. Basically, yep. I have some concerns about the mentality and organisation in the team but broadly the players we currently have available are poor. Even full strength, we are a bang average L2 side that has no real identity or style of play that they are capable of.

3. 4-4-2! With what players? Goodman and Agard up front, one young lad and one half-fit old lad, both are triers but both are blowing out their arses after 60 minutes and there's no one to replace them with on the bench.

It's all very well picking holes in "the system" but the solutions put forward on here are just not workable. You want 4-4-2/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 attempting fluid attacking football or direct Penney style aggressive play? You would get tonked by 4 or 5 every week with this group of players. Works on Football Manager. Is not going to work with a defence full of kids, a keeper who butters his gloves before every match and who can't kick a ball, a slow powder puff midfield, and players up front who are currently not physically up to it.

4. Yeah, fans get optimistic when they sign loads of new players before the start of this season. We're not scouts and we're all Rovers fans hoping our signings will come good (except GazLaz, who tellingly was not that optimistic at the start of the season). Fan expectation often evaporates on contact with reality, it means very little.

As I've said for weeks, I wouldn't shed a tear if Schofield went. But he's on a hiding to nothing in this situation. Let's see how he does with a more carefully assembled squad, a bit of money behind him, and a pre-season to implement his ideas. Because there's no way he's happy with the way we're playing at the minute, but equally he can't come out and start saying the players aren't good enough. From the first whistle next season he has no excuses.

[Dare to dream!]

I'm confused by all this talk of us being inflexible and playing out from the back. Yes we do that a lot. We also lump it long. We sit in a low block and play on the counter. We sit in the mid block and play on the counter. But we're shocking at all of it due to the personnel we have available. Playing out from the back is what we're the least bad at, particularly given that we have a keeper who's distribution wouldn't look out of place in a pub team.

My main concern with Schofield at the minute is the obvious fact that this group of players is mentally completely gone and he doesn't look like turning it round. In patches we do ok, but the second something goes against us every player, to a man, completely crashes mentally. Part of that is the personnel but that should be something Schofield can work on to some degree, but whatever he's doing isn't working.

As far as the system and style of play though, Schofield is clearly doing what he can with the most limited group of players we've had in over 20 years.

Most teams in the prem can’t find players to fit in a system to play out of the back or find a keeper who is good with their feet.

How on earth will DRFC ever achieve that?

We need to be realistic and I think DS/JC are being naive with how they think they will get out of this league.

Gary Neville made the point in his Salford documentary. He said he thought he could buy players who were technically better than most in the league but it doesn’t work at lower levels. You need players who can play conference/League Two style football and cope with the demands of the league.

[Plumbster]

I am in the camp that believes no one could do much better with the current players and that the so-called system is damage limitation. So I can understand why the Board might be prepared to be  patient with DS- they might be wondering now whether they were right to sack Richie when the clamour started to build- guess it shows that sacking can also be a gamble.  Whilst I can cut DS more slack than most, I do agree is that it’s hard to point to anything positive he has done amidst all the adversity- player improvement etc. and if I was on the board I would be looking for evidence now of what new players he and Copps have lined up and why, and how they are going to secure them.  If I didn’t see a credible plan now for how and when Terry’s money was going to be spent I think that would worry me more than the pitiful end to the season and I would start looking elsewhere.

[Alan Southstand]

RW has gone on to prove he could have been right for us, but only with the right support and backing.

I agree on the squad of players and I’ve already said it’s woefully short on quality, but I can’t excuse DS because of that. He has shown us very little since coming in and this could be a massive risk hanging onto him for next season.

One argument I’ve read to keeping him is because of the upheaval that would ensue following his sacking, but if and when he’s sacked (in October), the upheaval at that time could be critical to our EFL existence!

Big decisions ahead, but have we got the strength of conviction to make them?

[Branton Red]

Branton.

You really do insist on looking at dates and figure in isolation.

On 1st Jan, yes we're were 1 point off the playoffs. But we had been in nothing like playoff form for over 4 months, since that early glut of points. We had picked up 23 points in the previous 18 games. It was the very dictionary definition of a false position.

Billy

You correctly identify that 14 points from Rovers first 6 matches is unrepresentative

You completely ignore that 7 points from the following 8 matches is also unrepresentative (results which lead to McSheffrey's departure)

You then quote a statistic which ignores the former but still includes the latter

You then have the gall to accuse me of selectivity. Utterly hilarious!

The fairest view to take is to take all 24 matches up to that point (playing the majority of teams once) into account giving a ppg of 1.54.

Or you could, as this discussion is about him, just consider Schofield's record to 1st Jan, though over a smaller sample size, giving a ppg of exactly 1.6 ("nothing like play off form for over 4 months" you say mmmm)

Either way both are extremely close to the ppg needed to be in the play offs at that point of 1.58.

Therefore, whichever way you cut it, Rovers were play off contenders at that point.

Or I could be ultra selective, like you, and claim games 7-14 were unrepresentative and that Rover had otherwise obtained 30 points from 14 games and were therefore title challengers.

Which would be just as silly as claiming a team in 8th, just 1 point off the play offs, were not serious play off contenders on 1st Jan before the evidential rot set in.

[normal rules]

Unashamedly stolen.

[Dagenham Rover]

I am in the camp that believes no one could do much better with the current players and that the so-called system is damage limitation. So I can understand why the Board might be prepared to be  patient with DS- they might be wondering now whether they were right to sack Richie when the clamour started to build- guess it shows that sacking can also be a gamble.  Whilst I can cut DS more slack than most, I do agree is that it’s hard to point to anything positive he has done amidst all the adversity- player improvement etc. and if I was on the board I would be looking for evidence now of what new players he and Copps have lined up and why, and how they are going to secure them.  If I didn’t see a credible plan now for how and when Terry’s money was going to be spent I think that would worry me more than the pitiful end to the season and I would start looking elsewhere.

I would suggest Copps and DS want to return to the Sod type of football and are trying to instill it sadly our current players arent up to it so DS should have been more flexible initially we will see what the summer brings

[danumdon]

I am in the camp that believes no one could do much better with the current players and that the so-called system is damage limitation. So I can understand why the Board might be prepared to be  patient with DS- they might be wondering now whether they were right to sack Richie when the clamour started to build- guess it shows that sacking can also be a gamble.  Whilst I can cut DS more slack than most, I do agree is that it’s hard to point to anything positive he has done amidst all the adversity- player improvement etc. and if I was on the board I would be looking for evidence now of what new players he and Copps have lined up and why, and how they are going to secure them.  If I didn’t see a credible plan now for how and when Terry’s money was going to be spent I think that would worry me more than the pitiful end to the season and I would start looking elsewhere.

I would suggest Copps and DS want to return to the Sod type of football and are trying to instill it sadly our current players arent up to it so DS should have been more flexible initially we will see what the summer brings

The thing is we would of all loved having that type of football back on display but at the same time we are all pragmatic to know that it didn't come wrapped in flashy paper with bow on it, we had to work very hard as a club to reach that level. That we were managed by an old hand with experience and an authority about him that got average players playing out of their skin.

Fast forward to today, we have a very average squad who are being asked to jump through hoops they just don't like, the fact the HC is now a young and inexperienced leader he does not have the same knowledge, ideas, flexibility and authority about him to get a tune out of this lot.

Everyone can see this except the people who really matter, they obviously believe in their ability to achieve their goals but unfortunately we as a fan base have absolutely no indication that this is viable, we have no previous to go on and what we have seen so far is a group of players(no world beaters by any stretch) go backwards at a tremendous rate of knots, some of them bare no resemblance to their previous abilities and strengths, now any manager worth his salt does not do this to a squad of players, he's there to improve them not turn them into jibbering idiots.

I just can't see where he can bring in the right type of player to overcome this handicap that he imposes on the players, if he spends all of TB's money and turns them to stone as well just where will be be after the massive implosion at the club. next season could be our last in the league if we don't get this right.

Massive pressure on all including the board members, do they stick or twist?

[Sammy Chung was King]

We recruit young players that won’t rock the boat as the managers don’t feel able to deal with the more experienced pro’s. That leads to a side lacking in characters, as a lot are young guys trying to develop their games. They need real leaders around them. Players that can run the team for the manager on the pitch and in the dressing room.

 The reducing of funding also leads to this happening. We need to be competing with other sides for players that a few want, not those that nobody wants to sign. You see what you get looking at our team at the minute, when you go down that road.