Freedom of speech ref Nigel Farage's bank accounts

[Glyn_Wigley]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

That's a wonderful example. Care to remind everybody what the result of that case was?

[Iberian Red]

Very disconcerting this how a bank can unilaterally do this.
But I do fear it will become the norm, especially when we go to a cashless society.

Speak out against the prevailing agenda? Bam ! Chip turned off until you behave.

Scary precedent

A quite bizarre reading of the situation.

He's been offered an account with the Nat West parent company.

It'd really help discussing this if folk would focus on the facts of what has happened, rather than extrapolate it into this sort of nonsense.

He HASN'T been chucked into bank-less penury because of his beliefs. A private and very exclusive bank has taken the decision that there is a reputational risk associated with how he acts in public, in particular (read the report - the great majority of it focuses on this) the extent of his links with an enemy state with whom we are currently de facto at war. They've decided, on balance, that he's not rich enough and profitable enough to them to balance out the potential risk to their reputation that goes with him.

And their parent company has offered him another account with a less exclusive bank.

Not as bizarre as the bank taking the decision to unilaterally disregard free speech and kick him out because he upsets a few lefty snowflakes.
It will come out in the wash, why they have done it, and then it's going to get sketchy, I suspect powerful left leaning shareholders and people in positions of power have leant on the bank.

Something tells me that if Jeremy corbyn was booted out, a few on here wouldn't be as quick to defend the bank.

It applies to both right and left here, if the woke agenda suddenly swings the opposite way then far left people would equally be in trouble.
The issue is how they are able to do this to people, just because they go against the prevailing agenda.

You know the argument has been completely lost and debased when words like leftys(sic),woke and snowflake get churned out.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Watch out, he'll be accusing you of unilaterally disregarding his free speech!

[wilts rover]

'Lefty, woke snowflakes' in a bank only millionaires can join!!!

[wilts rover]

'I would like to personally reiterate our offer to you of alternative banking arrangements at Nat West.'''

So he was never cancelled then. They just gave him a different account. Farage lying (and some people lapping it up)
 - who'd  a thunk it'!

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1682062458448408577

[Iberian Red]

'I would like to personally reiterate our offer to you of alternative banking arrangements at Nat West.'''

So he was never cancelled then. They just gave him a different account. Farage lying (and some people lapping it up)
 - who'd  a thunk it'!

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1682062458448408577

[Iberian Red]

'I would like to personally reiterate our offer to you of alternative banking arrangements at Nat West.'''

So he was never cancelled then. They just gave him a different account. Farage lying (and some people lapping it up)
 - who'd  a thunk it'!

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1682062458448408577

The naive,or those peddling right wing conspiracy theories.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This, from a banking journalist at that well known woke lefty snowflake nest of vipers, Bloomers, sums it up.

https://twitter.com/PaulJDavies/status/1682008296616607747

It's depressing how often folk with right wing views get disconnected their critical faculties and go Pavlovian whenever Farage or the like click their fingers.


This ISN'T  a matter of vital human rights. It's just another attempt to open up a front in the Culture War, by an attention-obsessed man with a brilliant knack for knowing how to wind up the easily led.

[Ldr]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66258137

[wilts rover]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

Farage of course famously supported the rights of this bakery in this case.

That is; he thought it was fine for a business to be able to discriminate on who its customers were based on those customers political views (support of LGBTQ rights) - if he disagreed with the customers political views.

https://twitter.com/SamFowles/status/1681972023029841920

[DRFC_AjA]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

That's a wonderful example. Care to remind everybody what the result of that case was?

Small business won the case and I know exaclty where you're going with that but that isnt my point. Small business decided who it did/did not want to do business with and won. Large business has now done the same and lost. But here is the crux of the matter for me and the difference.....

...that small business has always and will always have that view. They will not be shifted from that view. They have their reasons and they wont cahnge because the populist mob want them to....thats the exact opposite of large business these days. The large business flip flops from whatever is in vogue to be "outraged" about and they dare to try take moral high grounds pretending they are morally superior when they arent....

COUTTS dont you dare pretend you've got morals and tell me I cannot bank with you because I dont belive in the vax or I dont believe in changing genders YET you help rich people avoid paying taxes. NIKE dont you dare pretend you're morally sueprior to me because you've got a rainbow on your shirts YET you do business with China who basically have modern day concentration camps. The list is endless of companies and celebrities telling me what I should and should not believe while they do the opposite and it HAS TO STOP

[DRFC_AjA]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

Farage of course famously supported the rights of this bakery in this case.

That is; he thought it was fine for a business to be able to discriminate on who its customers were based on those customers political views (support of LGBTQ rights) - if he disagreed with the customers political views.

https://twitter.com/SamFowles/status/1681972023029841920

it is completely different and have said why above

[scawsby steve]

The bank has apologised. They admitted they were wrong.

End of matter.

[Branton Red]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry if I don't have time to respond to your particular point.

I can't help thinking a large number of you are reacting to who is involved here not what is involved. And that you might have expressed a very different view if the individual involved was more your cup of tea.

I agree with the Guardian (hardly a Farage supporting outlet) "It is surely possible to disagree profoundly with Farage’s views on most issues and find Coutts’ stance alarmingly illiberal."

Just to clarify NatWest haven't offered Farage banking on the same terms - they've only offered a personal account, not a business account as well - as he had with Coutts.

The reputational risk argument used by Coutts is clearly nonsense. Could anyone tell me who Boris Johnson or Philip Schofield bank with? And if you can what damage has been done to said bank on their very public comeuppances?

They've got rid of Farage because they don't like his views - the documentation (and they've gone to town on it) is clear.

Now I don't particular care about the impact on Farage here personally. He's big enough, rich enough and has a big enough platform not to be impacted - if anything this has grown his platform.

But if as a society we believe it is anyway acceptable (legality is a separate issue) for banks to close customers accounts on the back of their political opinions then that is very dangerous for freedom of speech.

It provides a significant disincentive for people to speak out; get involved in politics; campaign on issues - if they have or are aware they could have their bank account closed off the back of this - and the impact on credit ratings etc.

I'll go back to my OP and a very clever man's view expressed in 1940 (the date is signifcant) "in order that every man may present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population" (and that includes banks).

[Iberian Red]

They've apologised for calling him out for what he is,and being caught.

[ncRover]

PayPal cancelled the account of the Free Speech union last year only to reinstate it after a backlash.

[ravenrover]

Smogg defending Farage, now where does Smogg have his bank accounts?

[BillyStubbsTears]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

That's a wonderful example. Care to remind everybody what the result of that case was?

Small business won the case and I know exaclty where you're going with that but that isnt my point. Small business decided who it did/did not want to do business with and won. Large business has now done the same and lost. But here is the crux of the matter for me and the difference.....

...that small business has always and will always have that view. They will not be shifted from that view. They have their reasons and they wont cahnge because the populist mob want them to....thats the exact opposite of large business these days. The large business flip flops from whatever is in vogue to be "outraged" about and they dare to try take moral high grounds pretending they are morally superior when they arent....

COUTTS dont you dare pretend you've got morals and tell me I cannot bank with you because I dont belive in the vax or I dont believe in changing genders YET you help rich people avoid paying taxes. NIKE dont you dare pretend you're morally sueprior to me because you've got a rainbow on your shirts YET you do business with China who basically have modern day concentration camps. The list is endless of companies and celebrities telling me what I should and should not believe while they do the opposite and it HAS TO STOP

Who ever said Coutts were doing this out of morals?

You're like Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

They are a bank for millionaires. They thought that being associated with a skint rabble router, and possible enemy state asset might be bad for business.

When did anyone bring morals into it?

[wilts rover]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

Farage of course famously supported the rights of this bakery in this case.

That is; he thought it was fine for a business to be able to discriminate on who its customers were based on those customers political views (support of LGBTQ rights) - if he disagreed with the customers political views.

https://twitter.com/SamFowles/status/1681972023029841920

it is completely different and have said why above

Course it is. Because it's different political opinions he agrees/disagrees with.

They can go to another bakery. He can go to another bank.

What he can't do is go to another bank that only 5% of the county are actually eligle to use. The 'man of the people' is having a fit because he is a snob and doesn't want to use a bank that ordinary people use.

[Glyn_Wigley]

You already do live in that world, see the family run bakery who were sued and hounded because they didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding based on their religious values. It's one way traffic, comply with the views of the regime or get cancelled

That's a wonderful example. Care to remind everybody what the result of that case was?

Small business won the case and I know exaclty where you're going with that but that isnt my point. Small business decided who it did/did not want to do business with and won. Large business has now done the same and lost. But here is the crux of the matter for me and the difference.....

...that small business has always and will always have that view. They will not be shifted from that view. They have their reasons and they wont cahnge because the populist mob want them to....thats the exact opposite of large business these days. The large business flip flops from whatever is in vogue to be "outraged" about and they dare to try take moral high grounds pretending they are morally superior when they arent....

COUTTS dont you dare pretend you've got morals and tell me I cannot bank with you because I dont belive in the vax or I dont believe in changing genders YET you help rich people avoid paying taxes. NIKE dont you dare pretend you're morally sueprior to me because you've got a rainbow on your shirts YET you do business with China who basically have modern day concentration camps. The list is endless of companies and celebrities telling me what I should and should not believe while they do the opposite and it HAS TO STOP

So if that small business isn't the same scenario as Coutts...then why the f**k did you bring it up as if it was in the first place??

That's a hell of a long reverse ferret that I can't be bothered to read.

[wilts rover]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry if I don't have time to respond to your particular point.

I can't help thinking a large number of you are reacting to who is involved here not what is involved. And that you might have expressed a very different view if the individual involved was more your cup of tea.

I agree with the Guardian (hardly a Farage supporting outlet) "It is surely possible to disagree profoundly with Farage’s views on most issues and find Coutts’ stance alarmingly illiberal."

Just to clarify NatWest haven't offered Farage banking on the same terms - they've only offered a personal account, not a business account as well - as he had with Coutts.

The reputational risk argument used by Coutts is clearly nonsense. Could anyone tell me who Boris Johnson or Philip Schofield bank with? And if you can what damage has been done to said bank on their very public comeuppances?

They've got rid of Farage because they don't like his views - the documentation (and they've gone to town on it) is clear.

Now I don't particular care about the impact on Farage here personally. He's big enough, rich enough and has a big enough platform not to be impacted - if anything this has grown his platform.

But if as a society we believe it is anyway acceptable (legality is a separate issue) for banks to close customers accounts on the back of their political opinions then that is very dangerous for freedom of speech.

It provides a significant disincentive for people to speak out; get involved in politics; campaign on issues - if they have or are aware they could have their bank account closed off the back of this - and the impact on credit ratings etc.

I'll go back to my OP and a very clever man's view expressed in 1940 (the date is signifcant) "in order that every man may present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population" (and that includes banks).

What a load of rubbish. You have bought into Farage's b*****lks without even bothering to check the accuracy and truth of it.

He had a mortgage with Coutts and paid it off. Once it was paid off he stopped putting his money into Coutts and fell below their threshold to be a customer.

They offered him different account that he is too much of a snob to accept without wining about it. End of.

Couple of long twitter threads here that explain it in detail:

https://twitter.com/SamFowles/status/1681919318085234693

https://twitter.com/Frances_Coppola/status/1681684254101495808

[ncRover]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

[idler]

Aesop said that “A man is known by the company he keeps”.
I think that we have all known people that we wouldn’t want to be associated with.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

Have I got the individual right and freedom to have a Coutt's account whether they want me to have one or not? That's nice to know. Sign me up, I've a spare fiver I can put in it start the account.

[scawsby steve]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

It's OK, NC. They're getting used to life under Keith, and everything he stands for.

No wonder Mick Lynch is p*ssed off with him.

[Iberian Red]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

It's OK, NC. They're getting used to life under Keith, and everything he stands for.

No wonder Mick Lynch is p*ssed off with him.

Oh dear. You two seem to have confused your threads.
This one is about NF and his bank account.
It's got bag all to do with your posts.

[Branton Red]

What a load of rubbish. You have bought into Farage's b*****lks without even bothering to check the accuracy and truth of it.

He had a mortgage with Coutts and paid it off. Once it was paid off he stopped putting his money into Coutts and fell below their threshold to be a customer.

They offered him different account that he is too much of a snob to accept without wining about it. End of.

Couple of long twitter threads here that explain it in detail:

https://twitter.com/SamFowles/status/1681919318085234693

https://twitter.com/Frances_Coppola/status/1681684254101495808

Wilts

FYI my views are based on reading articles from a wide range of sources, including the BBC, Guardian and Telegraph, and actually reading the Coutts dossier myself. Here it is: -

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12314423/The-Coutts-Farage-dossier-bank-admitted-ex-Ukip-leader-DID-meet-commercial-criteria-used-tweet-Ricky-Gervais-trans-joke-Novak-Djokovic-ties-decide-odds-position-inclusive-organisation.html

And not based on extracts and opinions sourced from a Twitter Groupthink bubble. And you have the nerve to suggest I can't think for myself!

You've not done the courtesy of explaining exactly what I wrote was rubbish and why. But allow me to extend that courtesy to you as I can systematically show with evidence that every word of your post is complete and utter Rubbish!

Sam Fowles in Nov 2022 Coutts were “seeking approval to continue the relationship”

Rubbish! Fact: they closed his Account down less than 6 months afterward.

“subject to annual reviews”

Rubbish! The accounts were closed within 12 months and no annual review took place – otherwise it would be included in the dossier under the law.

“has a mortgage.......which on a commercial basis we would not look to renew”

Ok but irrelevant rubbish! Farage didn't look to renew the mortgage it was paid off – as both sides agree.

He then completely ignores a few lines down from there: -

"The Committee did not think continuing banking NF was compatible with Coutts given his publicly-stated views that were at odds with our position as an inclusive organisation."

And the several pages worth of Farage's opinions Coutts take exception too. Still think I'm talking rubbish?!

Frances Coppola. Yes Coutts confirmed "the client's EC (Economic Contribution) is now sufficient to retain on a commercial basis" in November 2022.

But nowhere does it state that his EC was going to be/became negative after he paid his mortgage. Which seems a strange omission if it were true. She is incorrect and yes talking Rubbish!

Yes it states he would no longer be a “criteria client” and that the “relationship [was] below commercial for some time”. But they're not the same thing.

As Simon Jack (BBC journalist) tweeted - after breaking the story, briefed by Coutts, that the account was closed due to a lack of funds* - many Coutts customers maintain Accounts after falling below the commercial threshold (inc Farage himself “for some time”).

* The BBC themselves now admit that particular story and headline were “incorrect”.

Page 36 clearly states the bank accounts was closed very shortly after the mortgage was paid off. Therefore your assertion that “Once it was paid off he stopped putting his money into Coutts” is clearly baseless Rubbish!

Natwest only offered Farage a personal account, not a business account as well - as he had with Coutts. As confirmed in the Telegraph who quote Coutts as writing in a communication to Farage after offering a personal account “your business account issue remains unresolved.”

If you can find evidence that Coutts has subsequently offered a business account please supply it.

Otherwise your implied assertion that they offered him Nawest services on the same basis is Rubbish!

[ncRover]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

It's OK, NC. They're getting used to life under Keith, and everything he stands for.

No wonder Mick Lynch is p*ssed off with him.

Oh dear. You two seem to have confused your threads.
This one is about NF and his bank account.
It's got bag all to do with your posts.

I’ve enjoyed your thoughtful and insightful posts recently. Please keep it up.

[Iberian Red]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

It's OK, NC. They're getting used to life under Keith, and everything he stands for.

No wonder Mick Lynch is p*ssed off with him.

Oh dear. You two seem to have confused your threads.
This one is about NF and his bank account.
It's got bag all to do with your posts.

I’ve enjoyed your thoughtful and insightful posts recently. Please keep it up.

Good. I certainly will do, if you manage to keep on topic.

[Iberian Red]

Bemusing how the Left in recent years have defended Big Pharma and now banking corporations instead of people’s individual rights and freedoms. Quite the 180.

It's OK, NC. They're getting used to life under Keith, and everything he stands for.

No wonder Mick Lynch is p*ssed off with him.

Oh dear. You two seem to have confused your threads.
This one is about NF and his bank account.
It's got bag all to do with your posts.

I’ve enjoyed your thoughtful and insightful posts recently. Please keep it up.

Many thanks for plagiarising my quote too,that really is some compliment.
Maybe I'll get a like from a little lap dog for that one!