Sunak is a liar

[BillyStubbsTears]

And another one.

https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1708792200329372089

The idea of the so called "15 minute cities" is to make sure that everyone has schools and shops and well served bus stops within easy walking distance. It's got f**k all to do with councils telling you how often you can go to the shops.

I genuinely thought Sunak would have higher standards for his Government. But this is just a machine gun of made up policies that no-one in Labour is remotely proposing.

[TommyC]

And another one.

https://twitter.com/maitlis/status/1708792200329372089

The idea of the so called "15 minute cities" is to make sure that everyone has schools and shops and well served bus stops within easy walking distance. It's got f**k all to do with councils telling you how often you can go to the shops.

I genuinely thought Sunak would have higher standards for his Government. But this is just a machine gun of made up policies that no-one in Labour is remotely proposing.

Yes that's the official line but are you seriously suggesting it is about anything other than reducing car use?

I'm not saying that isn't an admirable cause worth pursuing. However let's not dress it up as something it isn't. Councils up and down the country are deliberately making cities less car friendly. I drive in both Leeds and York on a daily basis unfortunately and both cities are going to extraordinary lengths to make life unpleasant for the motorist. Three lane roads suddenly being reduced to one lane etc for no discernible reason. Previously accessible places no longer accessible (City Square in Leeds for exmple). Heavy congestion on reduced capacity roads that previously had free flowing traffic. The approach is clearly geared towards making car travel less convenient for urban commuters. We all know people won't ditch their cars unless there becomes no point in using them and that can only come from increased cost and inconvenience.

People can see with their own eyes what is happening and it's rather insulting to be told it's simply all in pursuit of making it easier for grandma to go out and buy a pint of milk. It plays into the hands of the conspiracy theorists, as you've rightly pointed out. "War on the motorist" doesn't tend to play well at the ballot box though does it! It's also why we're suddenly seing the Tories miraculously trying to cosy up to the motorist now an election is looming and they're desperate.

[tommy toes]

So they're scrapping HS2 in the North.
This means the whole thing has been a criminal waste of time and money as what's left doesn't serve the purpose it was designed for.

Then they're going to clamp down on people with mental health problems, reducing benefits, unless they get 'therapy'.
Who's going to provide this therapy when waiting lists are already months or years long?
Or is it just another meaningless unworkable plan to stoke up the hard of thinking.
They really haven't got a clue.

[tommy toes]

Sunak bragging this morning about giving 55 towns in the north and midlands £20million to spend as they wish.
Doesn't mention this is over 10 years and goes nowhere near to replace the scathing cuts in local council funding.

[Herbert Anchovy]

I’ve watched the PM on telly this morning telling us that the cost of living crisis and inflation isn’t his fault. All pretty depressing. How anyone can still vote for this charlatan is beyond me.

[drfchound]

So they're scrapping HS2 in the North.
This means the whole thing has been a criminal waste of time and money as what's left doesn't serve the purpose it was designed for.

Then they're going to clamp down on people with mental health problems, reducing benefits, unless they get 'therapy'.
Who's going to provide this therapy when waiting lists are already months or years long?
Or is it just another meaningless unworkable plan to stoke up the hard of thinking.
They really haven't got a clue.

Tommy, I have been saying for years that HS2 is a waste of money and that the original estimate of cost would spiral out of control.
I have never understood why people need to get from the north to London thirty minutes faster.
Covid proved that people can still hold meetings without actually travelling and even if they have to travel, just set off on an earlier train.
The money should have been spent on improving what we already have.

[Herbert Anchovy]

So they're scrapping HS2 in the North.
This means the whole thing has been a criminal waste of time and money as what's left doesn't serve the purpose it was designed for.

Then they're going to clamp down on people with mental health problems, reducing benefits, unless they get 'therapy'.
Who's going to provide this therapy when waiting lists are already months or years long?
Or is it just another meaningless unworkable plan to stoke up the hard of thinking.
They really haven't got a clue.

Tommy, I have been saying for years that HS2 is a waste of money and that the original estimate of cost would spiral out of control.
I have never understood why people need to get from the north to London thirty minutes faster.
Covid proved that people can still hold meetings without actually travelling and even if they have to travel, just set off on an earlier train.
The money should have been spent on improving what we already have.

Agree with this to a point. The disparity in transport infrastructure in the country is mind-blowing. Where I live, there's a train every 15 minutes that takes me into central London and these trains are made up of anywhere between 12 & 15 carriages. They are clean and largely reliable. Up North you can only dream of anything remotely close to this. The fact that HST 2 isn't going any further than Birmingham is a disgrace.

[ravenrover]

What is a disgrace it that it was ever started in the 1st place, be that by Labour or Tories

[SydneyRover]

Risky flies a kite to see which way the winds blows and then says he won't speculate and the decision won't be rushed. A ₤100bn project and he and his government haven't done their homework.

This from a few days ago.

''Sunak and Hunt can’t play shocked at HS2’s cost overruns''

''ne piece of political spin about HS2’s spiralling costs is nonsense: the idea that ministers have a right to be shocked by the numbers. HS2 Ltd, the body building the railway and new stations, may be “arm’s length” for shorthand purposes, but it is not some faraway entity operating beyond government scrutiny. Rather, it is tightly meshed to the Department for Transport (DfT), which is involved in all big planning and spending decisions.

So when the chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, says costs are “getting totally out of control” – a reasonable analysis as the bill heads towards a grotesque £100bn – he should explain why the government is seemingly surprised. Whitehall insiders talk about HS2’s bosses behaving “like kids with the golden credit card” but that ignores the fact that there is an “open books” relationship with the DfT. The government sees the monthly credit card statements, as it were. And No 10, incidentally, signs off on the megabucks salaries (departing chief executive Mark Thurston got £676,000 last year) on appointment.

Allan Cook, who was chair of HS2 Ltd between 2018 and 2021, characterises the relationship between the DfT and the delivery body as “strong and close”. He adds that in his time “budget and expenditure was approved in all cases by the DfT and, in some cases, by the Treasury too at regular monthly meetings” ...........

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2023/sep/29/hs2-cost-overruns-rishi-sunak-jeremy-hunt

[albie]

The cost estimates in the original business case for Hs2 were based on very optimistic assumptions, and they were there to provide cover.
No-one who looks at these things thought it was remotely likely to deliver at cost, but this was conveniently ignored by the politicians.

The UK is very poor at infrastructure delivery at scale, with costs much higher than comparable projects in similar economies.
Too many interests with a margin to make, and the knowledge that once started, these deals are hard to unpick.

Same type of escalation has always accompanied nuclear new build......always massively over budget, and years behind schedule.

[Herbert Anchovy]

What is a disgrace it that it was ever started in the 1st place, be that by Labour or Tories

Disagree. The original purpose of HS2 was to free up space on the countries Victorian rail network. This in turn would have specifically improved local train services. The idea behind HS2 was fine but the actual delivery and management of it has been a fiasco.

[MachoMadness]

So Tory party policy is to ensure you can't get anywhere quickly on the trains, but also ensure you can't get to any local shops or services within walking distance. What The British People want is to have an hour's drive through city centre traffic whenever they want a pint of milk and a paper, apparently. Who knew?

[ravenrover]

Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins

[drfchound]

So Tory party policy is to ensure you can't get anywhere quickly on the trains, but also ensure you can't get to any local shops or services within walking distance. What The British People want is to have an hour's drive through city centre traffic whenever they want a pint of milk and a paper, apparently. Who knew?

MM, do people still buy newspapers? 

[MachoMadness]

So Tory party policy is to ensure you can't get anywhere quickly on the trains, but also ensure you can't get to any local shops or services within walking distance. What The British People want is to have an hour's drive through city centre traffic whenever they want a pint of milk and a paper, apparently. Who knew?

MM, do people still buy newspapers? 

My mam still buys the Free Press!

[BillyStubbsTears]

15 minute cities.

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45347-most-britons-would-their-area-become-15-minute-nei?redirect_from=%2Ftopics%2Fsociety%2Farticles-reports%2F2023%2F03%2F06%2Fmost-britons-would-their-area-become-15-minute-nei

[wilts rover]

Last year they kicked out Greempeace activists from their conference. This year they kicked out the Leader of the Tory Party on the GLA!

https://twitter.com/miffythegamer/status/1709248253349220426

[SydneyRover]

''Britain’s political system is broken and voters are exhausted, Rishi Sunak will say on Wednesday as he struggles to wrestle back control of the agenda at a Conservative conference dominated by rival factions, leadership posturing and speculation about HS2''

no flies on risky

[BillyStubbsTears]

So apparently Sunak is going to cancel HS2 under the argument that he wants to do politics differently.

Does that mean the Tories giving the finger to the North while pouring investment into the South East? How exactly is that meant to be different to the old Tory politics?

[BillyStubbsTears]

And apparently Sunak is going to announce today that we need a new kind of politics because nothing has changed in 30 years.

Setting aside the mind numbing vacuousness of this comment, he's going to kick off this new era of change by cancelling a big investment project, so that he can cut tax before the election. Which sounds a lot like the sort of politics that has hobbled British performance for years.

[ravenrover]

We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!

[drfchound]

Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins

We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!

Raven, I understand your dislike of Sunak, but I’m not sure why you would put the two above comments on this thread.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins

I'm sorry but this misses the point about HS2.

It's NOT about the journey times. That's an incidental benefit.

It's about capacity. In particular, HS2 would have freed up much of the usage of the WCML, ECML and EMML, by putting the fast intercity traffic on new purpose-built lines. That would have freed up a LOT of capacity on the existing lines for more, slower, local trains and freight.

That's why pretty much every serious politician in the North, and every major business leader is in favour of it.

But Sunak knows better.

[ravenrover]

Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins

We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!

Raven, I understand your dislike of Sunak, but I’m not sure why you would put the two above comments on this thread.

Why just pick up my 2 posts amongst many others on this thread regarding HS2

[SydneyRover]

It must be your turn RR

[drfchound]

Sorry HA the money would have been far better spent uograding and improving the existing infrastructure. We are too small a country to have HS lines that will improve a journey time by just 20-30mins

We'll plan long term for the future he keeps saying, let's start by cancelling a long term plan for the future, HS2 !!

Raven, I understand your dislike of Sunak, but I’m not sure why you would put the two above comments on this thread.

Why just pick up my 2 posts amongst many others on this thread regarding HS2

Calm down. I picked them out because in one you seem to be against HS2 and in the other, unless I have read it wrong, you appear to be chastising Sunak for cancelling it.
Apologies if I read your post incorrectly.
All the other comments are either in favour of continuing with HS2 or, as in my case, stopping it.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think there's a few obvious bits.

1. The business case for hs2 was always marginal but that clearly will now look very different and probably a fail on cost benefit.

2. Spending it on the things proposed would always be more sensible, eg in this area a1 upgrade, faster Trainline to Sheffield/cross pennine, Leeds trams etc.

3. Why didn't they realise half of this years ago.

4. It's hard to believe they'll follow through with the new proposals anyway.

I wonder what the other parties will do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd use the Lee Anderson Test.

That thick-as-mince gobshite is against HS2. Therefore HS2 must be a good thing.

[ravenrover]

Hound you are correct I am against HS2 but that comment was in response to a previous post.
As the thread says Sunak is a liar, he knew all along he was cancelling the 2nd leg so he "lied" when saying he hadn't decided. His slogan is long term planning for a brighter future but in his 1st Conference speech he cancels a long term plan which was meant to lead to a brighter future for the North
As for calming down never in a month of Sundays would you upset me picking up.on these 2 posts it was purely a question as to why you had

[drfchound]

Hound you are correct I am against HS2 but that comment was in response to a previous post.
As the thread says Sunak is a liar, he knew all along he was cancelling the 2nd leg so he "lied" when saying he hadn't decided. His slogan is long term planning for a brighter future but in his 1st Conference speech he cancels a long term plan which was meant to lead to a brighter future for the North
As for calming down never in a month of Sundays would you upset me picking up.on these 2 posts it was purely a question as to why you had

Fair enough Raven.
No harm done either way then.
As for the thread title, it could be Any politician (insert a name here) is a liar.