Sunak is a liar

[BillyStubbsTears]

It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.

I almost agree with that. The divide is right down the middle of what the Tory party used to be. The moderate Tories have been mostly driven out. It's easy to forget but over the last 7-8 years, the Tory party has lurched hugely towards the Far Right. No Tory party in our lifetimes before this present one would have countenanced having a would be fascist like Braverman anywhere near the Cabinet.

That's why it is vital that they are kicked out next year, whatever the shortcomings of Starmer's Labour alternative. If we as a country choose to throw our lot in with a gang that offer nothing but Far Right Culture War and a total rejection of Objective Truth, we are going into a very dark place.

We WILL kick them out though. Because we are a decent people, despite the small minority that would gladly enable would-be fascists.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB

I'm not a staunch labour voter.

Can't you see these people are crippling the chances of the North?

What have they got to offer?

RD. I assume you're still in your comedy mode, and take it you're just being ironic about the chances of The Labour Party being more generous than the Tories regarding the North?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bang on cue, here's the Transport Secretary denying Objective Truth.

https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1710037828875219024

So the hundreds of millions of pounds that will have to be paid out to lay off HS2 contractors will be paid for by selling off compulsory purchased land.

Which is fine as a line, if you think voters are too f**king thick to realise that the Government has already spent hundreds of millions buying that land.

That sums up their attitude to Tory supporters. They genuinely think Tory supporters are too thick to get this.

[Bentley Bullet]

It speaks volumes that the more reasonable, more centrist Tories are dead against this. The political divide is right down the middle of the Tory party.

I almost agree with that. The divide is right down the middle of what the Tory party used to be. The moderate Tories have been mostly driven out. It's easy to forget but over the last 7-8 years, the Tory party has lurched hugely towards the Far Right. No Tory party in our lifetimes before this present one would have countenanced having a would be fascist like Braverman anywhere near the Cabinet.

That's why it is vital that they are kicked out next year, whatever the shortcomings of Starmer's Labour alternative. If we as a country choose to throw our lot in with a gang that offer nothing but Far Right Culture War and a total rejection of Objective Truth, we are going into a very dark place.

We WILL kick them out though. Because we are a decent people, despite the small minority that would gladly enable would-be fascists.

What do you mean 'would be fascists?' I thought, according to you they were already fascists.

RD, If you believe what this bloke is saying you deserve equally everything you get. Somehow, I think you're better than that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As ever BB, you don't read what I write but instead answer what you think I write.

I have always said Braverman WOULD BEa fascist if she thought she could get away with it. Fortunately this country is full of better people than the likes of you who would turn a blind eye to her. So she won't get away with it.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST, if you were a better person than me I'd have to seriously consider my role in life. As it stands, you only have to look at the quality of your disciples on this forum to realise that you're far from that.

[SydneyRover]

BST, if you were a better person than me I'd have to seriously consider my role in life. As it stands, you only have to look at the quality of your disciples on this forum to realise that you're far from that.

Jeez, If you must invoke region then you'll need to get Steve's ok

[wilts rover]

BB

Your Tories are letting you down badly. You can see how they are defunding the area you live in.

They have let you down

RD, They are NOT my Tories! I've said umpteen times that the only time I voted Tory was for Tony Blair last century in 1997, but I will stand up for the Tories EVERY TIME against Labour and its supporters.

As a matter of fact, what's made me detest the Labour Party even more than its piss-poor leader Keir Starmer is some of the Labour supporters on this forum.

I simply do not want to be on their side.

I rarely vote Labour.

I just support them against the lying Tory supporters. Especially the ones on this forum who defended and supported Johnson and his lies throughout his stint as PM. And who now defend and support Sunak and his lies in his term as PM.

I simply do not want to be on their side due to the damage they have done to the country.

Vote Tory.

[SydneyRover]

Rutherglen & Hamilton West, not sure your vote is required anyway bb

[MachoMadness]

Important to note Sunak is selling off the land that would be used for HS2 now. So not only is it impossible for any successors to reverse his decision, he can also set up his mates with some cheap land that was previously acquired by the taxpayer at great expense.

He's doing this unilaterally, as an unelected PM.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I understand how our political system works - you vote for individual MPs and Parliament chooses the PM.

But that system is so antiquated. It is from a time before there were recognised political parties.

Sunak is making these decisions without reference to Parliament. He's doing so, because he nominally has been granted executive power by the fact that no-one stood against him last year when the position on Leader of the Tory party became vacant yet again.

Both major parties and the LDs have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to  make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There's no point in keeping it as it won't be reversed, but equally if they were clever politically they'd wait.  Give labour a decision to make.  Labour have vocally criticised it so give them the opportunity to reverse it if they so wish.  This gives them an easy way out.  Politically the conservatives should be thinking of the long term, they're not.

I still don't think HS2 makes sense post covid and I doubt labour would have reversed the decision either, but now they have an easy excuse not to.  I also don't think the cost of the line to Euston from the other London station is worth it, that money could be far better spent elsewhere.

As for the rest of the Tory stuff, what reason is there to vote for them, that they're not labour?  They've no ideas, no strategy and a number of front benchers who should be nowhere near government.  I've no doubt Sunak could be competent and a very good leader, he's done some things quite well.  But he's leading a party that doesn't really in 2023 align with what he wants to do and he doesn't have the ability to stop them, which in itself shows weakness.  ON the other side is Starmer who's massively changed his party.  The left hate it but he's managed it and got them in the place he wants.  Yes there will be problems when he doesn't do half of what others want him to do, but that's in the future.  Right now he's the only viable PM at the next election despite his weaknesses.

But, we shouldn't remember we vote for MPs not presidents.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Both major parties and the Lads have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to  make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.

I think a lot of labour party members could make that point about Keir Starmer as leader couldn't they?

[ravenrover]

Speaking of Sunak telling lies
Did you attend any parties?
NO!
Did anyone watch Partygate?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Both major parties and the Lads have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to  make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.

I think a lot of labour party members could make that point about Keir Starmer as leader couldn't they?

If they don't like what he's doing, they can press to have him voted out.

The issue is that most Labour party members are prepared to stick with him. The noise comes from a small but very vocal minority of the membership, many of whom weren't members before they got a chance to join for £3 and vote in Corbyn.

[SydneyRover]

Vanuatu puts the tory party to shame and elects it's third PM within a month .......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD0FzBTJm1k

[albie]

Interesting info from Patrick Vallance on the role of Sunak in the Covid conundrum.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-inquiry-rishi-sunak-rejected-medical-advice-pay-self-isolate-patrick-vallance-diaries-2663333

[Bristol Red Rover]

Both major parties and the Lads have stood in the last 4 elections on manifestos that firmly supported HS2. Whatever your individual opinions on it, for Sunak to  make such massive, sweeping decisions with no real mandate from the electorate really shows how broken our political system is.

I think a lot of labour party members could make that point about Keir Starmer as leader couldn't they?

If they don't like what he's doing, they can press to have him voted out.

The issue is that most Labour party members are prepared to stick with him. The noise comes from a small but very vocal minority of the membership, many of whom weren't members before they got a chance to join for £3 and vote in Corbyn.

Off topic, sorry, but I can't let this dribble go without comment.

Untrue rhetoric there. There are a great many long standing members who've been kicked out of the party for trumped up reasons. The party central office has taken control of some constuencies with a desire to have Starmerite candidates installed.

And then yes, lots of members have just left through bullying, disillusionment, etc. Some of them joined up with the Corbyn movement, but actually many of those were ex members who'd given up with engagement in the Blair toxicity.

Party money now comes from business and individuals out for benefit, gain, from the next government. They'll be back with the Tories soon enough.

Labour is not democratic. And so the bleeding obvious is that it therefore will not be representing "the people". There's a very dark future ahead.

[roversdude]

Please excuse my naivety but isn’t HS2 embedded in legislation and would therefore need to be voted on to be revoked.
Personally I’m gutted it’s been scrapped the company I work for are part of some of the joint ventures. It’s also noticeable that Euston to Old Oak Common is likely to be part of the spending.
Would be interesting to hear all of the parties visions for transport.
At the moment I feel the North has been cut adrift

[albie]

roversdude,

Yes, and Sunak knows that the situation will be legally challenged for the breach of contracts implied.
This will push a final decision back beyond the next GE.

Open goal for Keith to say what Labour will do.
Saying it will be completed means that those looking to make short profits will be deterred.

Given Keith is averse to saying anything on principle, he will probably be sat on the fence when it is demolished underneath him!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well this didn't take long to unravel did it?

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1710939845105692995

[BillyStubbsTears]

Confirmed by Sunak today.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1711379438561071304

What a shower of shite. Get them out.

[Donnywolf]

Sunak is a Rail liar ?

[SydneyRover]

risky ........ ''“I’m not sure I recognise the numbers.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/09/list-of-projects-to-be-funded-by-hs2-money-only-illustrative-sunak-says