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Author Topic: Israel  (Read 55930 times)

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Ldr

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1170 on March 18, 2024, 05:07:16 pm by Ldr »
I'm not f**king searching for it, I didn't want to see that shit in the first place. It's out there if you're desperate to see it.

I call bullshit

And, as usual, you are wrong.  Oh, and it's more than 1 Palestinian too....
 
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-tanks-deliberately-ran-over-palestinians-alive-report-says-17220843
 
and if you don't trust EuroMed then how about Reuters?
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/camera-footage-shows-israeli-vehicles-driving-over-palestinian-killed-army-raid-2024-01-10/

Read what MM put then what the Reuters report says……



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Sprotyrover

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1171 on March 18, 2024, 05:46:27 pm by Sprotyrover »
I'm not f**king searching for it, I didn't want to see that shit in the first place. It's out there if you're desperate to see it.

I call bullshit

And, as usual, you are wrong.  Oh, and it's more than 1 Palestinian too....
 
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-tanks-deliberately-ran-over-palestinians-alive-report-says-17220843
 
and if you don't trust EuroMed then how about Reuters?
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/camera-footage-shows-israeli-vehicles-driving-over-palestinian-killed-army-raid-2024-01-10/
So we have the first Hysteria offering from a Pro Palestinian source
Israeli tanks "deliberately" ran over Palestinians alive on Sunday, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor has said in a statement.

The Geneva-based organisation described these crimes on Monday as "part of Israel’s genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."
And then we have the Reuters account which is totally different, Israeli Forces clash with extremists and three who were armed with Fit are killed outside a building as the fire fight intensifies an Israel Armoured vehicle approaches the building where the Israeli Soldiers are, to cover their extraction and runs over the body of an already dead Terrorist!
Nothing to see hear just another hysterical post from a Wet Lettuce!

Not Now Kato

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  • Posts: 3136
Re: Israel
« Reply #1172 on March 18, 2024, 06:51:38 pm by Not Now Kato »
I'm not f**king searching for it, I didn't want to see that shit in the first place. It's out there if you're desperate to see it.

I call bullshit

And, as usual, you are wrong.  Oh, and it's more than 1 Palestinian too....
 
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-tanks-deliberately-ran-over-palestinians-alive-report-says-17220843
 
and if you don't trust EuroMed then how about Reuters?
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/camera-footage-shows-israeli-vehicles-driving-over-palestinian-killed-army-raid-2024-01-10/

Read what MM put then what the Reuters report says……

Nicely ducking the EuroMed article?  And if you can be bothered, (I doubt you will), there are plenty of reports of Israeli soldiers driving over Palestinians, some alive, some already dead - not that that should make any difference!  There's even a video of an Israeli soldier admitting driving his tank over one.  He claims accidentally, but the body is quite clearly visible to him!
 
I guess from your comments that you actually condone these atrocities as you don't seem to condemn them?

Not Now Kato

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1173 on March 18, 2024, 06:56:10 pm by Not Now Kato »
I'm not f**king searching for it, I didn't want to see that shit in the first place. It's out there if you're desperate to see it.

I call bullshit

And, as usual, you are wrong.  Oh, and it's more than 1 Palestinian too....
 
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-tanks-deliberately-ran-over-palestinians-alive-report-says-17220843
 
and if you don't trust EuroMed then how about Reuters?
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/camera-footage-shows-israeli-vehicles-driving-over-palestinian-killed-army-raid-2024-01-10/
So we have the first Hysteria offering from a Pro Palestinian source
Israeli tanks "deliberately" ran over Palestinians alive on Sunday, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor has said in a statement.

The Geneva-based organisation described these crimes on Monday as "part of Israel’s genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."
And then we have the Reuters account which is totally different, Israeli Forces clash with extremists and three who were armed with Fit are killed outside a building as the fire fight intensifies an Israel Armoured vehicle approaches the building where the Israeli Soldiers are, to cover their extraction and runs over the body of an already dead Terrorist!
Nothing to see hear just another hysterical post from a Wet Lettuce!

So you don't trust a credible independant source?
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Mediterranean_Human_Rights_Monitor
 
There are lots of reports and recodings of these atrocities, but I guess that, like LDR you appear quite happy for them to be taking place as you don't decry them?  Says so much about you.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1174 on March 18, 2024, 07:16:05 pm by Sprotyrover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1175 on March 18, 2024, 08:26:06 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

ncRover

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  • Posts: 3570
Re: Israel
« Reply #1176 on March 18, 2024, 09:20:32 pm by ncRover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?

Bristol Red Rover

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1177 on March 18, 2024, 09:27:56 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?

MachoMadness

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1178 on March 18, 2024, 09:36:33 pm by MachoMadness »
The fact that there are multiple incidents of Israel running over civilians in tanks, and that it's not immediately clear which specific incident I'm referring to, should set off alarm bells with the genocide deniers, you'd think. The Israelis have decades of form for this. Google Rachel Corrie.

There are also reports of pregnant women being crushed the same way, although at least the IDF had the courtesy to shoot them first. If you're going to defend genocide, that's what you're defending. Own it.

But. As I'm being called a liar:
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6202

The image has been blurred, but it doesn't leave much to the imagination. The uncensored images are out there if that's what you like to look at.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1179 on March 18, 2024, 09:39:14 pm by Sprotyrover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 09:42:47 pm by Sprotyrover »

Not Now Kato

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1180 on March 18, 2024, 10:56:52 pm by Not Now Kato »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.

Sprotyrover

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1181 on March 18, 2024, 11:03:54 pm by Sprotyrover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Not Now Kato

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  • Posts: 3136
Re: Israel
« Reply #1182 on March 18, 2024, 11:08:04 pm by Not Now Kato »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

You clearly have great difficulty in reading.  Or you couldn't be bothered to read both links.  Because if you'd taken the time to read them both you would have seen that they were completely separate incidents.  In fact, the first link cites 4, yes FOUR, separate incidents, all on different dates.  Either way makes your response rather stupid wouldn't you say?
 
And you still find what Israel is doing acceptable!

Not Now Kato

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1183 on March 18, 2024, 11:32:38 pm by Not Now Kato »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Thank you for the link.  Pity you either didn't read it in full or you quoted selectively from it.  Here's just some of the bits you missed....
 
Use by Israeli forces
See also: Israeli war crimes
The Israeli Defense Forces have been accused of using Palestinians as human shields. Examples of this include: IDF soldiers putting Palestinian civilians in front of them or otherwise putting civilians in the line of fire;[6] forcing Palestinians to remove suspicious objects (possible explosives);[6] sending Palestinians to try and persuade militants to surrender themselves (so-called "neighbor procedure").[6]
1948–1967
During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.[27]
Second Intifada
Israeli officials reported that the Israel Defense Forces made use of the "human shield" procedure on 1,200 occasions during the Second Intifada (2000–2005).[28] An example of this was chaining a 12-year old Palestinian boy to an Israeli armored vehicle.[28] Israeli officials stated that this procedure killed "only" one Palestinian human shield.[29]
According to human rights groups Amnesty International[30] and Human Rights Watch,[31] the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the Second Intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[32][33] Al Mezan reported the systematic use of human shields during the invasion of Beit Hanoun in 2004.[34] Human shields were also employed by Israeli soldiers to subdue a stone-throwing protest in Hebron in 2003.[35]
Amnesty gave the following example: on April 5, 2002, an IDF officer took a Palestinian man from his house and asked him to come with them. When the Palestinian man, whose children were around him, repeatedly refused, the IDF officer said "I would prefer not to use force". The IDF officer then grabbed the Palestinian man by the collar and forced him to walk in front of the IDF soldiers. The IDF officer crouched behind the Palestinian man and started firing. Over the course of several hours, IDF soldiers had him repeatedly stand in front of them as they fired at suspected Palestinian militants. During this time the Palestinian man asked to be released but the IDF refused. Finally during one incident the Palestinian man received a bullet on his leg and was finally released by the IDF.[36]
In 2002 the Supreme Court of Israel issued a temporary injunction banning the practice in the wake of the death of 19-year-old Nidal Abu Mohsen, who was shot dead when he was forced by the IDF to knock on the door of his neighbor, Hamas militant Nasser Jarrar, in the West Bank village of Tubas and inform him of the Israeli army's demands that he surrender.[28][37][38]
In 2004, a 13-year-old boy, Muhammed Badwan, was photographed tied to an Israeli police vehicle in the West Bank village of Biddu being used as a shield to deter stone-throwing protesters.[28][39] Rabbi Arik Ascherman was placed under arrest after he tried to intervene.[37]
In 2005, Israel's High Court of Justice banned the practice,[29][40] with the Israeli Defense Ministry appealing the decision.[29][41] While acknowledging and defending the "use of Palestinians to deliver warnings to wanted men about impending arrest operations", a practice known in Israel by the "neighbor procedure",[35] the IDF denied reports of "using Palestinians as human shields against attacks on IDF forces", saying it had already forbidden this practice.[40]
In 2006, however, initial investigations by B'Tselem indicated that the IDF might have used civilians as human shields in 2006 Beit Hanun.[42]
In February 2007, the footage was released of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian, whom video showed serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers, getting inside apartments suspected to belong to Palestinian militants ahead of the soldiers.[43][44] A 15-year-old cousin of Amira and an 11-year-old girl in the West Bank independently told B'Tselem in February 2007 that Israeli soldiers forced each of them in separate incidents to open the door of a neighboring apartment belonging to a suspected militant, get inside ahead of them, and open doors and windows.[45]
The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident involving Amira.[43] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank operation.[46] In April 2007, CBS News reported that, according to human rights groups, the IDF did not stop the use of human shields, but the incidence was dropping.[32][43]
"Neighbor procedure"
See also: Criticism of Israel § Neighbor Procedure
The IDF's practice of "Neighbor procedure", used during the Second Intifada, utilized Palestinians as human shields. Under this procedure, people picked at random were forced by IDF to approach the houses of suspected militants and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. Israeli NGO Adalah legally challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. However, the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[47]
Locating IDF buildings in cities
Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[48]
2008–2009 Gaza War
During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[12] According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[12][23] Amnesty International stated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[11] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[49][50]
The Guardian compiled three videos and testimony from civilians about alleged war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers during the 2008–09 Gaza War, including the use of Palestinian children as human shields. In the videos, three teenage brothers from the al-Attar family said that they were forced at gunpoint to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing at them and that they were used to "clear" houses for the Israeli soldiers.[51]
An IDF soldier's testimony for Breaking the Silence told that his commander ordered that for every house raided by the IDF, they send a "neighbor" to go in before the soldier, sometimes while the soldier placed his gun on the neighbor's shoulder;[52] according to the soldier, "commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it".[52] Gazan civilians also testified of being used at gunpoint as human shields by Israeli soldiers.[53] An Israeli military official responded to these allegations: "The IDF operated in accordance with the rules of war and did the utmost to minimize harm to civilians uninvolved in combat. The IDF's use of weapons conforms to international law." An Israeli embassy spokesperson alleged Hamas pressured the people of Gaza into making those accusations.[51]
On 12 March 2010, the Israel Defense Forces prosecution filed indictments against two staff sergeants of the Givati Brigade for forcing a 9-year-old Palestinian boy to open a number of bags they thought might contain explosives in January 2009. The boy told he was hit by the soldiers and forced to work for them at gunpoint.[54] The IDF said it opened the investigation after the incident was brought to its attention by the United Nations.[55] On 3 October 2010, a conviction in this matter, accompanied by a demotion and suspended sentence, was handed down by the military court against both defendants, though neither soldier was jailed.[56][57][58][59] The sentence was criticized as too lenient by Human Rights Watch[60] and the boy's mother.[54]
2009 to the 2014 Gaza War
A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces in June 2013 of "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants", voicing with deep concern 14 such cases had been reported between January 2010 and March 2013. It says almost all accused soldiers involved in the incidents have gone unpunished.[61]
In an interview with Breaking the Silence, a former Israeli soldier recounted that the commander of his unit employed the policy, that of forcing Palestinian civilians to enter the homes of suspected militants ahead of Israeli soldiers, despite acknowledging its ban, as the commander would rather that a Palestinian civilian be killed carrying out the duty than one of his men.[62] He told young Palestinian boys were also used by this particular unit to carry out military duties for the Israeli army.[62]
Defense for Children International-Palestine reported 17-year-old, Ahmad Abu Raida (also: "Reeda"),[63] was kidnapped by Israeli soldiers, who, after beating him up and threatening him, at times with sexual overtones,[64] used him as a human shield for five days, forcing him to walk in front of them with police dogs at gunpoint, search houses and dig in places soldiers suspected there might be tunnels.[63][65] The New York Times stated that his assertions could not be independently corroborated; the Israeli military confirmed that he had been detained, noting his father's affiliation with Hamas, who was a senior official in the Gaza Tourism Ministry.[66] No material evidence of the physical violence allegedly suffered by Raida, e.g. photos, medical reports or lingering wounds resulting from repeated blows, was produced.[67]
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor conducted an investigation during and following the military operation. The investigation found that, during the 2014 Gaza War, Israeli soldiers used Palestinian civilians as shield in Khuza'a. A family told the group that Israeli soldiers had killed the family's patriarch, a 65-year-old who was carrying a white flag, and proceeded to place family members, including children, by the house's windows and shoot from behind them.[63]
2022
In May 2022, Israeli soldiers were accused of using a 16-year old girl as a human shield during a firefight with Palestinian militants in Jenin. The girl told Defence for Children International in an interview that Israeli soldiers forced her to stand in direct line of fire for two hours even as she begged them to let her go.[68] When Amira Hass from the Ha'aretz contacted Israeli forces regarding this incident, they declined to comment on the human shield reports, simply saying they had behaved "ethically".[69][70]
A UN report stated that Israel found four examples of Israel using Palestinian children as human shields in the year 2022 (the report also accused Palestinian militants of using human shields).[71][72]
2024
On January 16, 2024, IDF soldiers used a Palestinian man as a human shield in Dura, West Bank. Mobile phone video footage showed Israeli soldiers advancing down the street while keeping the Palestinian man in front of them; one of the Israeli soldiers held the Palestinian man and kept his rifle on the Palestinian's shoulder.[73]
 
Now why did you exclude all that information?

selby

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1184 on March 19, 2024, 01:22:23 pm by selby »
  Slowly Israel are taking down Hamas now, they just need to keep it going, and when Hamas are asking for fifty named terrorists in exchange for one Israeli armed forces reserve woman Israel are quite happy to say no and keep things going.
  Hamas seem to think they are still relevant and are willing on their side to keep their subjects in misery.

Sprotyrover

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  • Posts: 4244
Re: Israel
« Reply #1185 on March 19, 2024, 01:33:04 pm by Sprotyrover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Thank you for the link.  Pity you either didn't read it in full or you quoted selectively from it.  Here's just some of the bits you missed....
 
Use by Israeli forces
See also: Israeli war crimes
The Israeli Defense Forces have been accused of using Palestinians as human shields. Examples of this include: IDF soldiers putting Palestinian civilians in front of them or otherwise putting civilians in the line of fire;[6] forcing Palestinians to remove suspicious objects (possible explosives);[6] sending Palestinians to try and persuade militants to surrender themselves (so-called "neighbor procedure").[6]
1948–1967
During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.[27]
Second Intifada
Israeli officials reported that the Israel Defense Forces made use of the "human shield" procedure on 1,200 occasions during the Second Intifada (2000–2005).[28] An example of this was chaining a 12-year old Palestinian boy to an Israeli armored vehicle.[28] Israeli officials stated that this procedure killed "only" one Palestinian human shield.[29]
According to human rights groups Amnesty International[30] and Human Rights Watch,[31] the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the Second Intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[32][33] Al Mezan reported the systematic use of human shields during the invasion of Beit Hanoun in 2004.[34] Human shields were also employed by Israeli soldiers to subdue a stone-throwing protest in Hebron in 2003.[35]
Amnesty gave the following example: on April 5, 2002, an IDF officer took a Palestinian man from his house and asked him to come with them. When the Palestinian man, whose children were around him, repeatedly refused, the IDF officer said "I would prefer not to use force". The IDF officer then grabbed the Palestinian man by the collar and forced him to walk in front of the IDF soldiers. The IDF officer crouched behind the Palestinian man and started firing. Over the course of several hours, IDF soldiers had him repeatedly stand in front of them as they fired at suspected Palestinian militants. During this time the Palestinian man asked to be released but the IDF refused. Finally during one incident the Palestinian man received a bullet on his leg and was finally released by the IDF.[36]
In 2002 the Supreme Court of Israel issued a temporary injunction banning the practice in the wake of the death of 19-year-old Nidal Abu Mohsen, who was shot dead when he was forced by the IDF to knock on the door of his neighbor, Hamas militant Nasser Jarrar, in the West Bank village of Tubas and inform him of the Israeli army's demands that he surrender.[28][37][38]
In 2004, a 13-year-old boy, Muhammed Badwan, was photographed tied to an Israeli police vehicle in the West Bank village of Biddu being used as a shield to deter stone-throwing protesters.[28][39] Rabbi Arik Ascherman was placed under arrest after he tried to intervene.[37]
In 2005, Israel's High Court of Justice banned the practice,[29][40] with the Israeli Defense Ministry appealing the decision.[29][41] While acknowledging and defending the "use of Palestinians to deliver warnings to wanted men about impending arrest operations", a practice known in Israel by the "neighbor procedure",[35] the IDF denied reports of "using Palestinians as human shields against attacks on IDF forces", saying it had already forbidden this practice.[40]
In 2006, however, initial investigations by B'Tselem indicated that the IDF might have used civilians as human shields in 2006 Beit Hanun.[42]
In February 2007, the footage was released of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian, whom video showed serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers, getting inside apartments suspected to belong to Palestinian militants ahead of the soldiers.[43][44] A 15-year-old cousin of Amira and an 11-year-old girl in the West Bank independently told B'Tselem in February 2007 that Israeli soldiers forced each of them in separate incidents to open the door of a neighboring apartment belonging to a suspected militant, get inside ahead of them, and open doors and windows.[45]
The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident involving Amira.[43] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank operation.[46] In April 2007, CBS News reported that, according to human rights groups, the IDF did not stop the use of human shields, but the incidence was dropping.[32][43]
"Neighbor procedure"
See also: Criticism of Israel § Neighbor Procedure
The IDF's practice of "Neighbor procedure", used during the Second Intifada, utilized Palestinians as human shields. Under this procedure, people picked at random were forced by IDF to approach the houses of suspected militants and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. Israeli NGO Adalah legally challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. However, the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[47]
Locating IDF buildings in cities
Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[48]
2008–2009 Gaza War
During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[12] According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[12][23] Amnesty International stated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[11] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[49][50]
The Guardian compiled three videos and testimony from civilians about alleged war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers during the 2008–09 Gaza War, including the use of Palestinian children as human shields. In the videos, three teenage brothers from the al-Attar family said that they were forced at gunpoint to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing at them and that they were used to "clear" houses for the Israeli soldiers.[51]
An IDF soldier's testimony for Breaking the Silence told that his commander ordered that for every house raided by the IDF, they send a "neighbor" to go in before the soldier, sometimes while the soldier placed his gun on the neighbor's shoulder;[52] according to the soldier, "commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it".[52] Gazan civilians also testified of being used at gunpoint as human shields by Israeli soldiers.[53] An Israeli military official responded to these allegations: "The IDF operated in accordance with the rules of war and did the utmost to minimize harm to civilians uninvolved in combat. The IDF's use of weapons conforms to international law." An Israeli embassy spokesperson alleged Hamas pressured the people of Gaza into making those accusations.[51]
On 12 March 2010, the Israel Defense Forces prosecution filed indictments against two staff sergeants of the Givati Brigade for forcing a 9-year-old Palestinian boy to open a number of bags they thought might contain explosives in January 2009. The boy told he was hit by the soldiers and forced to work for them at gunpoint.[54] The IDF said it opened the investigation after the incident was brought to its attention by the United Nations.[55] On 3 October 2010, a conviction in this matter, accompanied by a demotion and suspended sentence, was handed down by the military court against both defendants, though neither soldier was jailed.[56][57][58][59] The sentence was criticized as too lenient by Human Rights Watch[60] and the boy's mother.[54]
2009 to the 2014 Gaza War
A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces in June 2013 of "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants", voicing with deep concern 14 such cases had been reported between January 2010 and March 2013. It says almost all accused soldiers involved in the incidents have gone unpunished.[61]
In an interview with Breaking the Silence, a former Israeli soldier recounted that the commander of his unit employed the policy, that of forcing Palestinian civilians to enter the homes of suspected militants ahead of Israeli soldiers, despite acknowledging its ban, as the commander would rather that a Palestinian civilian be killed carrying out the duty than one of his men.[62] He told young Palestinian boys were also used by this particular unit to carry out military duties for the Israeli army.[62]
Defense for Children International-Palestine reported 17-year-old, Ahmad Abu Raida (also: "Reeda"),[63] was kidnapped by Israeli soldiers, who, after beating him up and threatening him, at times with sexual overtones,[64] used him as a human shield for five days, forcing him to walk in front of them with police dogs at gunpoint, search houses and dig in places soldiers suspected there might be tunnels.[63][65] The New York Times stated that his assertions could not be independently corroborated; the Israeli military confirmed that he had been detained, noting his father's affiliation with Hamas, who was a senior official in the Gaza Tourism Ministry.[66] No material evidence of the physical violence allegedly suffered by Raida, e.g. photos, medical reports or lingering wounds resulting from repeated blows, was produced.[67]
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor conducted an investigation during and following the military operation. The investigation found that, during the 2014 Gaza War, Israeli soldiers used Palestinian civilians as shield in Khuza'a. A family told the group that Israeli soldiers had killed the family's patriarch, a 65-year-old who was carrying a white flag, and proceeded to place family members, including children, by the house's windows and shoot from behind them.[63]
2022
In May 2022, Israeli soldiers were accused of using a 16-year old girl as a human shield during a firefight with Palestinian militants in Jenin. The girl told Defence for Children International in an interview that Israeli soldiers forced her to stand in direct line of fire for two hours even as she begged them to let her go.[68] When Amira Hass from the Ha'aretz contacted Israeli forces regarding this incident, they declined to comment on the human shield reports, simply saying they had behaved "ethically".[69][70]
A UN report stated that Israel found four examples of Israel using Palestinian children as human shields in the year 2022 (the report also accused Palestinian militants of using human shields).[71][72]
2024
On January 16, 2024, IDF soldiers used a Palestinian man as a human shield in Dura, West Bank. Mobile phone video footage showed Israeli soldiers advancing down the street while keeping the Palestinian man in front of them; one of the Israeli soldiers held the Palestinian man and kept his rifle on the Palestinian's shoulder.[73]
 
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Because the 20,000 words you have cut and pasted are not relevant to Israeli troops driving tanks over the bodies of dead Terrorists!
I hope you had a good read for 2 hours!

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3136
Re: Israel
« Reply #1186 on March 19, 2024, 02:53:43 pm by Not Now Kato »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Thank you for the link.  Pity you either didn't read it in full or you quoted selectively from it.  Here's just some of the bits you missed....
 
Use by Israeli forces
See also: Israeli war crimes
The Israeli Defense Forces have been accused of using Palestinians as human shields. Examples of this include: IDF soldiers putting Palestinian civilians in front of them or otherwise putting civilians in the line of fire;[6] forcing Palestinians to remove suspicious objects (possible explosives);[6] sending Palestinians to try and persuade militants to surrender themselves (so-called "neighbor procedure").[6]
1948–1967
During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.[27]
Second Intifada
Israeli officials reported that the Israel Defense Forces made use of the "human shield" procedure on 1,200 occasions during the Second Intifada (2000–2005).[28] An example of this was chaining a 12-year old Palestinian boy to an Israeli armored vehicle.[28] Israeli officials stated that this procedure killed "only" one Palestinian human shield.[29]
According to human rights groups Amnesty International[30] and Human Rights Watch,[31] the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the Second Intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[32][33] Al Mezan reported the systematic use of human shields during the invasion of Beit Hanoun in 2004.[34] Human shields were also employed by Israeli soldiers to subdue a stone-throwing protest in Hebron in 2003.[35]
Amnesty gave the following example: on April 5, 2002, an IDF officer took a Palestinian man from his house and asked him to come with them. When the Palestinian man, whose children were around him, repeatedly refused, the IDF officer said "I would prefer not to use force". The IDF officer then grabbed the Palestinian man by the collar and forced him to walk in front of the IDF soldiers. The IDF officer crouched behind the Palestinian man and started firing. Over the course of several hours, IDF soldiers had him repeatedly stand in front of them as they fired at suspected Palestinian militants. During this time the Palestinian man asked to be released but the IDF refused. Finally during one incident the Palestinian man received a bullet on his leg and was finally released by the IDF.[36]
In 2002 the Supreme Court of Israel issued a temporary injunction banning the practice in the wake of the death of 19-year-old Nidal Abu Mohsen, who was shot dead when he was forced by the IDF to knock on the door of his neighbor, Hamas militant Nasser Jarrar, in the West Bank village of Tubas and inform him of the Israeli army's demands that he surrender.[28][37][38]
In 2004, a 13-year-old boy, Muhammed Badwan, was photographed tied to an Israeli police vehicle in the West Bank village of Biddu being used as a shield to deter stone-throwing protesters.[28][39] Rabbi Arik Ascherman was placed under arrest after he tried to intervene.[37]
In 2005, Israel's High Court of Justice banned the practice,[29][40] with the Israeli Defense Ministry appealing the decision.[29][41] While acknowledging and defending the "use of Palestinians to deliver warnings to wanted men about impending arrest operations", a practice known in Israel by the "neighbor procedure",[35] the IDF denied reports of "using Palestinians as human shields against attacks on IDF forces", saying it had already forbidden this practice.[40]
In 2006, however, initial investigations by B'Tselem indicated that the IDF might have used civilians as human shields in 2006 Beit Hanun.[42]
In February 2007, the footage was released of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian, whom video showed serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers, getting inside apartments suspected to belong to Palestinian militants ahead of the soldiers.[43][44] A 15-year-old cousin of Amira and an 11-year-old girl in the West Bank independently told B'Tselem in February 2007 that Israeli soldiers forced each of them in separate incidents to open the door of a neighboring apartment belonging to a suspected militant, get inside ahead of them, and open doors and windows.[45]
The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident involving Amira.[43] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank operation.[46] In April 2007, CBS News reported that, according to human rights groups, the IDF did not stop the use of human shields, but the incidence was dropping.[32][43]
"Neighbor procedure"
See also: Criticism of Israel § Neighbor Procedure
The IDF's practice of "Neighbor procedure", used during the Second Intifada, utilized Palestinians as human shields. Under this procedure, people picked at random were forced by IDF to approach the houses of suspected militants and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. Israeli NGO Adalah legally challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. However, the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[47]
Locating IDF buildings in cities
Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[48]
2008–2009 Gaza War
During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[12] According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[12][23] Amnesty International stated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[11] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[49][50]
The Guardian compiled three videos and testimony from civilians about alleged war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers during the 2008–09 Gaza War, including the use of Palestinian children as human shields. In the videos, three teenage brothers from the al-Attar family said that they were forced at gunpoint to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing at them and that they were used to "clear" houses for the Israeli soldiers.[51]
An IDF soldier's testimony for Breaking the Silence told that his commander ordered that for every house raided by the IDF, they send a "neighbor" to go in before the soldier, sometimes while the soldier placed his gun on the neighbor's shoulder;[52] according to the soldier, "commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it".[52] Gazan civilians also testified of being used at gunpoint as human shields by Israeli soldiers.[53] An Israeli military official responded to these allegations: "The IDF operated in accordance with the rules of war and did the utmost to minimize harm to civilians uninvolved in combat. The IDF's use of weapons conforms to international law." An Israeli embassy spokesperson alleged Hamas pressured the people of Gaza into making those accusations.[51]
On 12 March 2010, the Israel Defense Forces prosecution filed indictments against two staff sergeants of the Givati Brigade for forcing a 9-year-old Palestinian boy to open a number of bags they thought might contain explosives in January 2009. The boy told he was hit by the soldiers and forced to work for them at gunpoint.[54] The IDF said it opened the investigation after the incident was brought to its attention by the United Nations.[55] On 3 October 2010, a conviction in this matter, accompanied by a demotion and suspended sentence, was handed down by the military court against both defendants, though neither soldier was jailed.[56][57][58][59] The sentence was criticized as too lenient by Human Rights Watch[60] and the boy's mother.[54]
2009 to the 2014 Gaza War
A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces in June 2013 of "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants", voicing with deep concern 14 such cases had been reported between January 2010 and March 2013. It says almost all accused soldiers involved in the incidents have gone unpunished.[61]
In an interview with Breaking the Silence, a former Israeli soldier recounted that the commander of his unit employed the policy, that of forcing Palestinian civilians to enter the homes of suspected militants ahead of Israeli soldiers, despite acknowledging its ban, as the commander would rather that a Palestinian civilian be killed carrying out the duty than one of his men.[62] He told young Palestinian boys were also used by this particular unit to carry out military duties for the Israeli army.[62]
Defense for Children International-Palestine reported 17-year-old, Ahmad Abu Raida (also: "Reeda"),[63] was kidnapped by Israeli soldiers, who, after beating him up and threatening him, at times with sexual overtones,[64] used him as a human shield for five days, forcing him to walk in front of them with police dogs at gunpoint, search houses and dig in places soldiers suspected there might be tunnels.[63][65] The New York Times stated that his assertions could not be independently corroborated; the Israeli military confirmed that he had been detained, noting his father's affiliation with Hamas, who was a senior official in the Gaza Tourism Ministry.[66] No material evidence of the physical violence allegedly suffered by Raida, e.g. photos, medical reports or lingering wounds resulting from repeated blows, was produced.[67]
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor conducted an investigation during and following the military operation. The investigation found that, during the 2014 Gaza War, Israeli soldiers used Palestinian civilians as shield in Khuza'a. A family told the group that Israeli soldiers had killed the family's patriarch, a 65-year-old who was carrying a white flag, and proceeded to place family members, including children, by the house's windows and shoot from behind them.[63]
2022
In May 2022, Israeli soldiers were accused of using a 16-year old girl as a human shield during a firefight with Palestinian militants in Jenin. The girl told Defence for Children International in an interview that Israeli soldiers forced her to stand in direct line of fire for two hours even as she begged them to let her go.[68] When Amira Hass from the Ha'aretz contacted Israeli forces regarding this incident, they declined to comment on the human shield reports, simply saying they had behaved "ethically".[69][70]
A UN report stated that Israel found four examples of Israel using Palestinian children as human shields in the year 2022 (the report also accused Palestinian militants of using human shields).[71][72]
2024
On January 16, 2024, IDF soldiers used a Palestinian man as a human shield in Dura, West Bank. Mobile phone video footage showed Israeli soldiers advancing down the street while keeping the Palestinian man in front of them; one of the Israeli soldiers held the Palestinian man and kept his rifle on the Palestinian's shoulder.[73]
 
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Because the 20,000 words you have cut and pasted are not relevant to Israeli troops driving tanks over the bodies of dead Terrorists!
I hope you had a good read for 2 hours!

You were the one who brought up human shields FFS, and it was your post that had nothing to do with Israeli troops driving anything over anyone. I simply replied to your selective cut and paste with important facts that you selectively omitted regarding the use of human shields.
 
You firstly failed to recognise that there were different incidents of Israeli soldiers driving over people, some dead, some alive, on different dates. When this was pointed out to you you changed the subject with a selective quote about the use of human shields; and when I posted an important part of the page you selectively cut and pasted from you blame me for you changing the subject! It’s all there for anyone to read!
 
You do realise that the more you post the dafter you look?

Bristol Red Rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 9614
Re: Israel
« Reply #1187 on March 19, 2024, 02:59:25 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
  Slowly Israel are taking down Hamas now, they just need to keep it going, and when Hamas are asking for fifty named terrorists in exchange for one Israeli armed forces reserve woman Israel are quite happy to say no and keep things going.
  Hamas seem to think they are still relevant and are willing on their side to keep their subjects in misery.
A plea for more murder of civilians. Nice guy.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2024, 03:01:48 pm by Bristol Red Rover »

Sprotyrover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 4244
Re: Israel
« Reply #1188 on March 19, 2024, 06:16:45 pm by Sprotyrover »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Thank you for the link.  Pity you either didn't read it in full or you quoted selectively from it.  Here's just some of the bits you missed....
 
Use by Israeli forces
See also: Israeli war crimes
The Israeli Defense Forces have been accused of using Palestinians as human shields. Examples of this include: IDF soldiers putting Palestinian civilians in front of them or otherwise putting civilians in the line of fire;[6] forcing Palestinians to remove suspicious objects (possible explosives);[6] sending Palestinians to try and persuade militants to surrender themselves (so-called "neighbor procedure").[6]
1948–1967
During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.[27]
Second Intifada
Israeli officials reported that the Israel Defense Forces made use of the "human shield" procedure on 1,200 occasions during the Second Intifada (2000–2005).[28] An example of this was chaining a 12-year old Palestinian boy to an Israeli armored vehicle.[28] Israeli officials stated that this procedure killed "only" one Palestinian human shield.[29]
According to human rights groups Amnesty International[30] and Human Rights Watch,[31] the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the Second Intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[32][33] Al Mezan reported the systematic use of human shields during the invasion of Beit Hanoun in 2004.[34] Human shields were also employed by Israeli soldiers to subdue a stone-throwing protest in Hebron in 2003.[35]
Amnesty gave the following example: on April 5, 2002, an IDF officer took a Palestinian man from his house and asked him to come with them. When the Palestinian man, whose children were around him, repeatedly refused, the IDF officer said "I would prefer not to use force". The IDF officer then grabbed the Palestinian man by the collar and forced him to walk in front of the IDF soldiers. The IDF officer crouched behind the Palestinian man and started firing. Over the course of several hours, IDF soldiers had him repeatedly stand in front of them as they fired at suspected Palestinian militants. During this time the Palestinian man asked to be released but the IDF refused. Finally during one incident the Palestinian man received a bullet on his leg and was finally released by the IDF.[36]
In 2002 the Supreme Court of Israel issued a temporary injunction banning the practice in the wake of the death of 19-year-old Nidal Abu Mohsen, who was shot dead when he was forced by the IDF to knock on the door of his neighbor, Hamas militant Nasser Jarrar, in the West Bank village of Tubas and inform him of the Israeli army's demands that he surrender.[28][37][38]
In 2004, a 13-year-old boy, Muhammed Badwan, was photographed tied to an Israeli police vehicle in the West Bank village of Biddu being used as a shield to deter stone-throwing protesters.[28][39] Rabbi Arik Ascherman was placed under arrest after he tried to intervene.[37]
In 2005, Israel's High Court of Justice banned the practice,[29][40] with the Israeli Defense Ministry appealing the decision.[29][41] While acknowledging and defending the "use of Palestinians to deliver warnings to wanted men about impending arrest operations", a practice known in Israel by the "neighbor procedure",[35] the IDF denied reports of "using Palestinians as human shields against attacks on IDF forces", saying it had already forbidden this practice.[40]
In 2006, however, initial investigations by B'Tselem indicated that the IDF might have used civilians as human shields in 2006 Beit Hanun.[42]
In February 2007, the footage was released of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian, whom video showed serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers, getting inside apartments suspected to belong to Palestinian militants ahead of the soldiers.[43][44] A 15-year-old cousin of Amira and an 11-year-old girl in the West Bank independently told B'Tselem in February 2007 that Israeli soldiers forced each of them in separate incidents to open the door of a neighboring apartment belonging to a suspected militant, get inside ahead of them, and open doors and windows.[45]
The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident involving Amira.[43] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank operation.[46] In April 2007, CBS News reported that, according to human rights groups, the IDF did not stop the use of human shields, but the incidence was dropping.[32][43]
"Neighbor procedure"
See also: Criticism of Israel § Neighbor Procedure
The IDF's practice of "Neighbor procedure", used during the Second Intifada, utilized Palestinians as human shields. Under this procedure, people picked at random were forced by IDF to approach the houses of suspected militants and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. Israeli NGO Adalah legally challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. However, the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[47]
Locating IDF buildings in cities
Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[48]
2008–2009 Gaza War
During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[12] According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[12][23] Amnesty International stated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[11] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[49][50]
The Guardian compiled three videos and testimony from civilians about alleged war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers during the 2008–09 Gaza War, including the use of Palestinian children as human shields. In the videos, three teenage brothers from the al-Attar family said that they were forced at gunpoint to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing at them and that they were used to "clear" houses for the Israeli soldiers.[51]
An IDF soldier's testimony for Breaking the Silence told that his commander ordered that for every house raided by the IDF, they send a "neighbor" to go in before the soldier, sometimes while the soldier placed his gun on the neighbor's shoulder;[52] according to the soldier, "commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it".[52] Gazan civilians also testified of being used at gunpoint as human shields by Israeli soldiers.[53] An Israeli military official responded to these allegations: "The IDF operated in accordance with the rules of war and did the utmost to minimize harm to civilians uninvolved in combat. The IDF's use of weapons conforms to international law." An Israeli embassy spokesperson alleged Hamas pressured the people of Gaza into making those accusations.[51]
On 12 March 2010, the Israel Defense Forces prosecution filed indictments against two staff sergeants of the Givati Brigade for forcing a 9-year-old Palestinian boy to open a number of bags they thought might contain explosives in January 2009. The boy told he was hit by the soldiers and forced to work for them at gunpoint.[54] The IDF said it opened the investigation after the incident was brought to its attention by the United Nations.[55] On 3 October 2010, a conviction in this matter, accompanied by a demotion and suspended sentence, was handed down by the military court against both defendants, though neither soldier was jailed.[56][57][58][59] The sentence was criticized as too lenient by Human Rights Watch[60] and the boy's mother.[54]
2009 to the 2014 Gaza War
A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces in June 2013 of "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants", voicing with deep concern 14 such cases had been reported between January 2010 and March 2013. It says almost all accused soldiers involved in the incidents have gone unpunished.[61]
In an interview with Breaking the Silence, a former Israeli soldier recounted that the commander of his unit employed the policy, that of forcing Palestinian civilians to enter the homes of suspected militants ahead of Israeli soldiers, despite acknowledging its ban, as the commander would rather that a Palestinian civilian be killed carrying out the duty than one of his men.[62] He told young Palestinian boys were also used by this particular unit to carry out military duties for the Israeli army.[62]
Defense for Children International-Palestine reported 17-year-old, Ahmad Abu Raida (also: "Reeda"),[63] was kidnapped by Israeli soldiers, who, after beating him up and threatening him, at times with sexual overtones,[64] used him as a human shield for five days, forcing him to walk in front of them with police dogs at gunpoint, search houses and dig in places soldiers suspected there might be tunnels.[63][65] The New York Times stated that his assertions could not be independently corroborated; the Israeli military confirmed that he had been detained, noting his father's affiliation with Hamas, who was a senior official in the Gaza Tourism Ministry.[66] No material evidence of the physical violence allegedly suffered by Raida, e.g. photos, medical reports or lingering wounds resulting from repeated blows, was produced.[67]
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor conducted an investigation during and following the military operation. The investigation found that, during the 2014 Gaza War, Israeli soldiers used Palestinian civilians as shield in Khuza'a. A family told the group that Israeli soldiers had killed the family's patriarch, a 65-year-old who was carrying a white flag, and proceeded to place family members, including children, by the house's windows and shoot from behind them.[63]
2022
In May 2022, Israeli soldiers were accused of using a 16-year old girl as a human shield during a firefight with Palestinian militants in Jenin. The girl told Defence for Children International in an interview that Israeli soldiers forced her to stand in direct line of fire for two hours even as she begged them to let her go.[68] When Amira Hass from the Ha'aretz contacted Israeli forces regarding this incident, they declined to comment on the human shield reports, simply saying they had behaved "ethically".[69][70]
A UN report stated that Israel found four examples of Israel using Palestinian children as human shields in the year 2022 (the report also accused Palestinian militants of using human shields).[71][72]
2024
On January 16, 2024, IDF soldiers used a Palestinian man as a human shield in Dura, West Bank. Mobile phone video footage showed Israeli soldiers advancing down the street while keeping the Palestinian man in front of them; one of the Israeli soldiers held the Palestinian man and kept his rifle on the Palestinian's shoulder.[73]
 
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Because the 20,000 words you have cut and pasted are not relevant to Israeli troops driving tanks over the bodies of dead Terrorists!
I hope you had a good read for 2 hours!

You were the one who brought up human shields FFS, and it was your post that had nothing to do with Israeli troops driving anything over anyone. I simply replied to your selective cut and paste with important facts that you selectively omitted regarding the use of human shields.
 
You firstly failed to recognise that there were different incidents of Israeli soldiers driving over people, some dead, some alive, on different dates. When this was pointed out to you you changed the subject with a selective quote about the use of human shields; and when I posted an important part of the page you selectively cut and pasted from you blame me for you changing the subject! It’s all there for anyone to read!
 
You do realise that the more you post the dafter you look?
Not half as daft as you, notice you like to jump onto my posts and make some childish observations, interesting also to see BRR liked your post!

Not Now Kato

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 3136
Re: Israel
« Reply #1189 on March 19, 2024, 08:26:29 pm by Not Now Kato »
2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters.

Why not go with Israel, and in doing so, just create more desperate angry people for future conflict. Oh, you do... Nice one.

Surely all that matters is the truth?
Is that the one where Israel is rightfully defending itself by murdering over 35k civilians?
According to a paper published by NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, the strategic use of human shields by groups like Hamas hinges on exploiting Israel's aim to minimize civilian casualties and the sensitivity of Western public opinion. This tactic allows Hamas to either accuse Israel of war crimes if civilian casualties occur or to protect its assets and continue operations if the IDF limits its military response. This approach is an example of 'lawfare', using legal and public platforms to challenge an adversary.[78][79] Israel has said that Hamas's actions have been responsible for civilian casualties in Gaza,[80][81] Human rights groups have said that even if Hamas were using human shields, Israel must still abide by international law to protect civilians.[8

The Israeli accusations have been supported by NATO,[85] and during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war EU nations condemned Hamas for using hospitals as human shields, while the UN Secretary General said "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields".[86][87] In 2023, HRW stated "Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups need to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians under their control from the effects of attacks and not use civilians as 'human shields.'"[88]

Cut and paste.  But no link to show where it's cut and pasted from or how reliable a source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

Thank you for the link.  Pity you either didn't read it in full or you quoted selectively from it.  Here's just some of the bits you missed....
 
Use by Israeli forces
See also: Israeli war crimes
The Israeli Defense Forces have been accused of using Palestinians as human shields. Examples of this include: IDF soldiers putting Palestinian civilians in front of them or otherwise putting civilians in the line of fire;[6] forcing Palestinians to remove suspicious objects (possible explosives);[6] sending Palestinians to try and persuade militants to surrender themselves (so-called "neighbor procedure").[6]
1948–1967
During the 1956–1957 occupation of Gaza Strip by Israel (as part of the Suez crisis), Israeli forces would search homes of suspected Palestinian fedayeen for weapons, caches or concealed fighters. Because these homes could have booby traps or snipers waiting for Israeli soldiers, they would use Palestinian children as human shields.[27]
Second Intifada
Israeli officials reported that the Israel Defense Forces made use of the "human shield" procedure on 1,200 occasions during the Second Intifada (2000–2005).[28] An example of this was chaining a 12-year old Palestinian boy to an Israeli armored vehicle.[28] Israeli officials stated that this procedure killed "only" one Palestinian human shield.[29]
According to human rights groups Amnesty International[30] and Human Rights Watch,[31] the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the 2002 Battle of Jenin. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem said that "for a long period of time following the outbreak of the Second Intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives".[32][33] Al Mezan reported the systematic use of human shields during the invasion of Beit Hanoun in 2004.[34] Human shields were also employed by Israeli soldiers to subdue a stone-throwing protest in Hebron in 2003.[35]
Amnesty gave the following example: on April 5, 2002, an IDF officer took a Palestinian man from his house and asked him to come with them. When the Palestinian man, whose children were around him, repeatedly refused, the IDF officer said "I would prefer not to use force". The IDF officer then grabbed the Palestinian man by the collar and forced him to walk in front of the IDF soldiers. The IDF officer crouched behind the Palestinian man and started firing. Over the course of several hours, IDF soldiers had him repeatedly stand in front of them as they fired at suspected Palestinian militants. During this time the Palestinian man asked to be released but the IDF refused. Finally during one incident the Palestinian man received a bullet on his leg and was finally released by the IDF.[36]
In 2002 the Supreme Court of Israel issued a temporary injunction banning the practice in the wake of the death of 19-year-old Nidal Abu Mohsen, who was shot dead when he was forced by the IDF to knock on the door of his neighbor, Hamas militant Nasser Jarrar, in the West Bank village of Tubas and inform him of the Israeli army's demands that he surrender.[28][37][38]
In 2004, a 13-year-old boy, Muhammed Badwan, was photographed tied to an Israeli police vehicle in the West Bank village of Biddu being used as a shield to deter stone-throwing protesters.[28][39] Rabbi Arik Ascherman was placed under arrest after he tried to intervene.[37]
In 2005, Israel's High Court of Justice banned the practice,[29][40] with the Israeli Defense Ministry appealing the decision.[29][41] While acknowledging and defending the "use of Palestinians to deliver warnings to wanted men about impending arrest operations", a practice known in Israel by the "neighbor procedure",[35] the IDF denied reports of "using Palestinians as human shields against attacks on IDF forces", saying it had already forbidden this practice.[40]
In 2006, however, initial investigations by B'Tselem indicated that the IDF might have used civilians as human shields in 2006 Beit Hanun.[42]
In February 2007, the footage was released of an incident involving Sameh Amira, a 24-year-old Palestinian, whom video showed serving as a human shield for a group of Israeli soldiers, getting inside apartments suspected to belong to Palestinian militants ahead of the soldiers.[43][44] A 15-year-old cousin of Amira and an 11-year-old girl in the West Bank independently told B'Tselem in February 2007 that Israeli soldiers forced each of them in separate incidents to open the door of a neighboring apartment belonging to a suspected militant, get inside ahead of them, and open doors and windows.[45]
The Israeli Army launched a criminal investigation into the incident involving Amira.[43] In April 2007, the Israeli army suspended a commander after the unit he was leading was accused of using Palestinians as human shields in a West Bank operation.[46] In April 2007, CBS News reported that, according to human rights groups, the IDF did not stop the use of human shields, but the incidence was dropping.[32][43]
"Neighbor procedure"
See also: Criticism of Israel § Neighbor Procedure
The IDF's practice of "Neighbor procedure", used during the Second Intifada, utilized Palestinians as human shields. Under this procedure, people picked at random were forced by IDF to approach the houses of suspected militants and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. Israeli NGO Adalah legally challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. However, the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[47]
Locating IDF buildings in cities
Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[48]
2008–2009 Gaza War
During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[12] According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[12][23] Amnesty International stated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[11] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[49][50]
The Guardian compiled three videos and testimony from civilians about alleged war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers during the 2008–09 Gaza War, including the use of Palestinian children as human shields. In the videos, three teenage brothers from the al-Attar family said that they were forced at gunpoint to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing at them and that they were used to "clear" houses for the Israeli soldiers.[51]
An IDF soldier's testimony for Breaking the Silence told that his commander ordered that for every house raided by the IDF, they send a "neighbor" to go in before the soldier, sometimes while the soldier placed his gun on the neighbor's shoulder;[52] according to the soldier, "commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it".[52] Gazan civilians also testified of being used at gunpoint as human shields by Israeli soldiers.[53] An Israeli military official responded to these allegations: "The IDF operated in accordance with the rules of war and did the utmost to minimize harm to civilians uninvolved in combat. The IDF's use of weapons conforms to international law." An Israeli embassy spokesperson alleged Hamas pressured the people of Gaza into making those accusations.[51]
On 12 March 2010, the Israel Defense Forces prosecution filed indictments against two staff sergeants of the Givati Brigade for forcing a 9-year-old Palestinian boy to open a number of bags they thought might contain explosives in January 2009. The boy told he was hit by the soldiers and forced to work for them at gunpoint.[54] The IDF said it opened the investigation after the incident was brought to its attention by the United Nations.[55] On 3 October 2010, a conviction in this matter, accompanied by a demotion and suspended sentence, was handed down by the military court against both defendants, though neither soldier was jailed.[56][57][58][59] The sentence was criticized as too lenient by Human Rights Watch[60] and the boy's mother.[54]
2009 to the 2014 Gaza War
A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces in June 2013 of "continuous use of Palestinian children as human shields and informants", voicing with deep concern 14 such cases had been reported between January 2010 and March 2013. It says almost all accused soldiers involved in the incidents have gone unpunished.[61]
In an interview with Breaking the Silence, a former Israeli soldier recounted that the commander of his unit employed the policy, that of forcing Palestinian civilians to enter the homes of suspected militants ahead of Israeli soldiers, despite acknowledging its ban, as the commander would rather that a Palestinian civilian be killed carrying out the duty than one of his men.[62] He told young Palestinian boys were also used by this particular unit to carry out military duties for the Israeli army.[62]
Defense for Children International-Palestine reported 17-year-old, Ahmad Abu Raida (also: "Reeda"),[63] was kidnapped by Israeli soldiers, who, after beating him up and threatening him, at times with sexual overtones,[64] used him as a human shield for five days, forcing him to walk in front of them with police dogs at gunpoint, search houses and dig in places soldiers suspected there might be tunnels.[63][65] The New York Times stated that his assertions could not be independently corroborated; the Israeli military confirmed that he had been detained, noting his father's affiliation with Hamas, who was a senior official in the Gaza Tourism Ministry.[66] No material evidence of the physical violence allegedly suffered by Raida, e.g. photos, medical reports or lingering wounds resulting from repeated blows, was produced.[67]
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor conducted an investigation during and following the military operation. The investigation found that, during the 2014 Gaza War, Israeli soldiers used Palestinian civilians as shield in Khuza'a. A family told the group that Israeli soldiers had killed the family's patriarch, a 65-year-old who was carrying a white flag, and proceeded to place family members, including children, by the house's windows and shoot from behind them.[63]
2022
In May 2022, Israeli soldiers were accused of using a 16-year old girl as a human shield during a firefight with Palestinian militants in Jenin. The girl told Defence for Children International in an interview that Israeli soldiers forced her to stand in direct line of fire for two hours even as she begged them to let her go.[68] When Amira Hass from the Ha'aretz contacted Israeli forces regarding this incident, they declined to comment on the human shield reports, simply saying they had behaved "ethically".[69][70]
A UN report stated that Israel found four examples of Israel using Palestinian children as human shields in the year 2022 (the report also accused Palestinian militants of using human shields).[71][72]
2024
On January 16, 2024, IDF soldiers used a Palestinian man as a human shield in Dura, West Bank. Mobile phone video footage showed Israeli soldiers advancing down the street while keeping the Palestinian man in front of them; one of the Israeli soldiers held the Palestinian man and kept his rifle on the Palestinian's shoulder.[73]
 
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Now why did you exclude all that information?
Because the 20,000 words you have cut and pasted are not relevant to Israeli troops driving tanks over the bodies of dead Terrorists!
I hope you had a good read for 2 hours!

You were the one who brought up human shields FFS, and it was your post that had nothing to do with Israeli troops driving anything over anyone. I simply replied to your selective cut and paste with important facts that you selectively omitted regarding the use of human shields.
 
You firstly failed to recognise that there were different incidents of Israeli soldiers driving over people, some dead, some alive, on different dates. When this was pointed out to you you changed the subject with a selective quote about the use of human shields; and when I posted an important part of the page you selectively cut and pasted from you blame me for you changing the subject! It’s all there for anyone to read!
 
You do realise that the more you post the dafter you look?
Not half as daft as you, notice you like to jump onto my posts and make some childish observations, interesting also to see BRR liked your post!

Lets see.  In answer to something LDR wrote I posted....
 
"And, as usual, you are wrong.  Oh, and it's more than 1 Palestinian too....
 
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-tanks-deliberately-ran-over-palestinians-alive-report-says-17220843
 
and if you don't trust EuroMed then how about Reuters?
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/camera-footage-shows-israeli-vehicles-driving-over-palestinian-killed-army-raid-2024-01-10/"
 
and you responded with....
 
"2 entirely different accounts of the same event!I will go with Reuters."
 
Though, as we've already established, you clearly didn't read either link in my post yet you felt a need to comment on it.  So it seems it was YOU that jumped on MY post!  And where were my childish remarks, I simply posted the stuff you deliberately omitted, which isn't childish at all, just facts.
 
As I said, the more you post the dafter you look.

Bristol Red Rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 9614
Re: Israel
« Reply #1190 on March 19, 2024, 09:40:55 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
Many more journalists have died in Gaza than in WW2 and the Vietnam War. Most are Palestinian. Many of their families have been targeted too. Why would this be?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-war-most-dangerous-ever-journalists-says-rights-group-2023-12-21/

selby

  • VSC Member
  • Posts: 10625
Re: Israel
« Reply #1191 on March 20, 2024, 10:50:51 am by selby »
  It would all end tomorrow if Hamas just surrendered, but no they are happy for themselves and dragging innocents into their suffering, must be a macho thing, or they don't actually give a flying fig for the people they are supposed to govern.

Sprotyrover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 4244
Re: Israel
« Reply #1192 on March 20, 2024, 01:02:37 pm by Sprotyrover »
  It would all end tomorrow if Hamas just surrendered, but no they are happy for themselves and dragging innocents into their suffering, must be a macho thing, or they don't actually give a flying fig for the people they are supposed to govern.
I think they are still waiting for the Cavalry!

Bristol Red Rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 9614
Re: Israel
« Reply #1193 on March 20, 2024, 02:23:00 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
  It would all end tomorrow if Hamas just surrendered, but no they are happy for themselves and dragging innocents into their suffering, must be a macho thing, or they don't actually give a flying fig for the people they are supposed to govern.
The naiivity there is that "hamas" is an organisation headed by at least some who might not act in the best interests of Palestinians. It is however largely made up of Palestinians who are resolute in rebalancing the decades of abuse they have suffered at the hands of Israel and friends. Friends and family murdered and tortured in the past, land and homes robbed. And add onto that hamas fighters who have had friends and families butchered in this recent episode,  and the many many recruits that have come from that. Israel cannot win with its genocide tactic and aim. Simple.

Sprotyrover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 4244
Re: Israel
« Reply #1194 on March 20, 2024, 03:33:34 pm by Sprotyrover »
Glad you pointed that out BRR, so they are are in it together to the bitter end eh? Why is it they are always running around like headless chickens on the news reports!

Bristol Red Rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 9614
Re: Israel
« Reply #1195 on March 20, 2024, 05:30:40 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
Glad you pointed that out BRR, so they are are in it together to the bitter end eh? Why is it they are always running around like headless chickens on the news reports!
Don't know what exactly you're referring to. You in agreement with the insanity and futility of Israeli murdering then?

Sprotyrover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 4244
Re: Israel
« Reply #1196 on March 20, 2024, 06:19:26 pm by Sprotyrover »
Glad you pointed that out BRR, so they are are in it together to the bitter end eh? Why is it they are always running around like headless chickens on the news reports!
Don't know what exactly you're referring to. You in agreement with the insanity and futility of Israeli murdering then?
The old adage,”Might as well be hung for a sheep as a Lamb” seems to be ringing in Israeli Ears!

Bristol Red Rover

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 9614
Re: Israel
« Reply #1197 on March 20, 2024, 06:25:15 pm by Bristol Red Rover »
It's not the hanging of Israel - that's already done, as you point out. It's their future insecity and destruction, the vastly increased death of their civilians in future years and decades.

Colemans Left Hook

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 6232
Re: Israel
« Reply #1198 on March 20, 2024, 06:37:58 pm by Colemans Left Hook »
  Slowly Israel are taking down Hamas now, they just need to keep it going, and when Hamas are asking for fifty named terrorists in exchange for one Israeli armed forces reserve woman Israel are quite happy to say no and keep things going.
  Hamas seem to think they are still relevant and are willing on their side to keep their subjects in misery.

I never thought I would lose respect for somebody over a single   post and whilst I am at it  i hate all the shorters and those that support it out there and the Pension funds etc that lend their stock out (so it's "double bubble"  for Selby)  to drive down the shares of British Companies in a curry hurry so they can be taken over by foreigners

Ldr

  • Forum Member
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Israel
« Reply #1199 on March 20, 2024, 06:44:03 pm by Ldr »
Hamas must be ended, no question.

 

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