Israel

[ncRover]

Interesting to see which countries have the right to defend themselves and which countries don't.

Yes, it is interesting to go back to page 1 of this thread and see the reaction to the Iran backed Oct 7th Hamas attack was

Even more interesting to see the response to this weeks attacks by hundreds of illegal Israeli settlers on Palestinian villagers in the West Bank, murdering locals and setting their homes on fire. And the eviction of Christians from an area of Jerusalem they have lived in for centuries.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/12/middleeast/west-bank-village-stormed-by-israeli-settlers-intl/index.html

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2024/12-april/news/world/israeli-police-accused-of-eviction-from-armenian-site-in-jerusalem

Just so you know who you are 'supporting'.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention I didn’t know. That’s very sad. If you paid attention to what I’ve said multiple times I’ve said I don’t agree with what the IDF allow to happen in the West Bank with regards to the behaviour of settlers.

I also think that despite them having a reason to, that the consulate attack was very reckless and the motive should be questioned with regards to an obvious expectation of escalation.

Israel has faced hostility for decades just for existing. It is now facing attack from 4 different quarters:

The Islamic extremist (essentially fascist) terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah who want Israel gone.

The Houthis, who have brought back slavery.

And an Iranian regime that treat their own women brutally. Try being a minority there. This regime funds and arms all of the above.

Israel, while it is not perfect is our ally and is the only true democracy in the Middle East.

So you’re seeing it in black and white without nuance to think that because I’m not vociferously anti-Israel that I support everything that they do and don’t expect better from them going forward.

What do you think of Iran, Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas? Do you feel that are betraying your political tribe and appearing to be an ‘Israel Supporter’ if you criticise them?

P.S. you never gave any evidence as to why you thought I had a previous account on this site.

[ncRover]

I also don’t think Israel should retaliate in this instance.

[River Don]

I also don’t think Israel should retaliate in this instance.

It's what Netanyahu seems keen on doing. I don't trust him an inch. Eliminating Hamas appears to involve the elimination or displacement of the Gazan people.

He seems intent on broadening the war and pulling the west into it. Just at a time when Russia is engaging in a war with the west. It's stirring up a new world war.

[Sprotyrover]

The Iranians can’t even state that they have evidence that shows Israel attacked the  ‘Military Annex’  in the neighbourhood of their Consul really.  So the only evidence is circumstantial
Hardly gives them the right to fire 500 or so Missiles and Drones at Israel.
If they do retaliate it will have to be a very bid one! They can put some 500 Aircraft into the Air and drop some 4,000 tons of bombs so we know they can do it but they need to choose appropriate targets and limit civilian ones! Mind you we can’t put anything past the Iranians, they are capable of concocting all sorts of evidence!

[River Don]

No one but Israel wants to escalate this. Not the Americans who have already said they aren't going to war with Iran. Not even the Iranians who  flagged up what they intended to do and quickly said it's done with now.

It's Netanyahu and the Israeli right who are trying to set this course. There should be no retaliation against Iran.

[selby]

  RD its all in the plan of a wider war against the West, and they need stopping, it is the same tactics the Chinese have used in the far East pushing the boundaries over time, but with the sinister spread of influence through religion and political influence.
   First they pushed the boundary on October the 7th to see what reaction the West would take, then they milk it for all it is worth knowing that the soft underbelly will go on anti Israel marches etc when they react with force, all the time using the sympathy reaction by hiding in civil enclaves and so including women and children in the colaterol damage.
  Then as soon as they think they have an excuse when high ranking officers controlling Hamas are killed move their red line a notch up with an attack pushing again to see the West's reaction hoping for the soft reaction so they can in their eyes restore their so called honour and plan something else to push the red line up a notch again while looking for the excuse to do so, the question is  what next? a spectacular at the Euro's or the Olympics, or an  easier city  terrorist attack they can cover the trail with by using one of their proxy terrorist organisation's, and when will the USA and the West say  enough is enough.
   The way they act, should we have bombed them  after the Iranian embassy incident and the police woman killed in London.
    If we thought like they do, probably we should have

[Bristol Red Rover]

Aye, there's some folks with nasty agendas out there, and then there's others that regurgitate those agendas without the semblance of self awareness.

[Ldr]

Aye, there's some folks with nasty agendas out there, and then there's others that regurgitate those agendas without the semblance of self awareness.

Oh the irony

[ncRover]

Aye, there's some folks with nasty agendas out there, and then there's others that regurgitate those agendas without the semblance of self awareness.

Let me guess, Iran aren’t as bad as we all think or something?

[Sprotyrover]

Aye, there's some folks with nasty agendas out there, and then there's others that regurgitate those agendas without the semblance of self awareness.

Let me guess, Iran aren’t as bad as we all think or something?

Let me have a guess Hamas aren’t as bad as everyone makes them out to be!

[Bristol Red Rover]

Let's say geo politics, who is connected with who, the intended strategy behind all that, isn't as obvious as you'd think. The US and ISIS is the prime example there.

[Bristol Red Rover]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

[Sprotyrover]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

[Bristol Red Rover]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

No, caused by a bunch of desperate bullies choosing to murder them. Check out the statements of intent over a long period of time by the Israeli leaders. Sick.

[DonnyOsmond]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

That would explain a handful, not 30,000+ civilians dead. They're leveling towns and cities, they don't care, prime example killing the aid workers last week.
They're just radicalising children by murdering their innocent family members in front of them, which will cause another cycle in years time.

Hamas are evil.
The government of Israel and the IDF are evil.

October the 7th wasn't the beginning of this conflict, it's been going on for decades and hadn't paused like some believe prior to a few months ago. There was/is still the land grabs by Israelis, murder of Palestinian children at the border, apartheid, etc. The horrific terrorist attack by Hamas and their allies in the West Bank just gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed to go in and kill Palestinians.

[Sprotyrover]

Do you reckon that Hamas got the nod! From Isreal to go on a fervent Rape and Pillage raid, to give Isreal an excuse to wipe out the Palestinians?
I would have thought we would be looking at Several hundred thousand dead if the Israelis had gone down that road!

[DonnyOsmond]

Do you reckon that Hamas got the nod! From Isreal to go on a fervent Rape and Pillage raid, to give Isreal an excuse to wipe out the Palestinians?
I would have thought we would be looking at Several hundred thousand dead if the Israelis had gone down that road!

What are you on about?

[Sprotyrover]

Do you reckon that Hamas got the nod! From Isreal to go on a fervent Rape and Pillage raid, to give Isreal an excuse to wipe out the Palestinians?
I would have thought we would be looking at Several hundred thousand dead if the Israelis had gone down that road!

What are you on about?

You seem to be blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza not Hamas?

[selby]

  So a sick religion that push the boundaries who have attacked a hotel in India, attack their own kind for having a different perspective of their religion ending up killing a million in Iran and Iraq, have tried to establish with some success a califate by murder chucking people off High rise buildings, beheading westerners, raping women, killed people in Manchester, Paris, Moscow, and Brussels by blowing up and attacking concert goers, have attacked buses and transport in London committing murder, kidnapped children in Africa, committed Rape and prostituted young girls in numerous towns and cities in the UK and have enough influence over the authorities to suppress the media,  Attack shipping to disrupt trade  to the West and cause everyone of us to pay more to live a normal life cheaper. Have attacked with swords people in the centre of London out for a meal, beheaded in the street a military soldier in London, and celebrate  9/11, are currently causing war and misery in the Sudan and other African countries and brutally kill maim and torture anyone in their way plus many more atrocities  all over the world, and that is ok is it, they are the goodies, yeh right.
  If that's OK and they are not a threat, you can't see as far as the end of your nose, or you are as thick as a plank.
   Oh and by the way, they would hate me, so what I have had my day, but don't be fooled, if you back them up they will use you, but they will hate you as much as me.

[ncRover]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

That would explain a handful, not 30,000+ civilians dead. They're leveling towns and cities, they don't care, prime example killing the aid workers last week.
They're just radicalising children by murdering their innocent family members in front of them, which will cause another cycle in years time.

Hamas are evil.
The government of Israel and the IDF are evil.

October the 7th wasn't the beginning of this conflict, it's been going on for decades and hadn't paused like some believe prior to a few months ago. There was/is still the land grabs by Israelis, murder of Palestinian children at the border, apartheid, etc. The horrific terrorist attack by Hamas and their allies in the West Bank just gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed to go in and kill Palestinians.

Come on DO. You know that while civilian deaths are of course sad that the 30,000+ figure quoted by the Gazan Health Ministry is not accurate. BRR has admitted this too but still uses their data. Why?

Their definition of a civilian is extremely broad and includes Hamas terrorists. Terrorists who look to maximise civilian casualties themselves to further their cause.

Hamas are just one of Iran’s many proxies. Oct 7th was engineered by them. Let us not forget that Hezbollah are firing rockets at Israel all the time, it just doesn’t make the news because they don’t get through.

Iran orchestrate Oct 7th, then say “The malicious Zionist regime will be punished”. Why does the supreme leader of a theocratic Sharia law regime have a problem with “Zionism”? Surely he puts religion more front and centre than the 20% Arab Israel does? Perhaps his issue is simply with Jews being in the Middle East.

His strategy will be to keep pushing the buttons of the hothead Netanyahu to the point that Israel keep lurching further to the right, become more aggressive and the West withdraws their support. So that missile strikes such as the one he carried out the other day get through and can wipe out Israel.

[DonnyOsmond]

Do you reckon that Hamas got the nod! From Isreal to go on a fervent Rape and Pillage raid, to give Isreal an excuse to wipe out the Palestinians?
I would have thought we would be looking at Several hundred thousand dead if the Israelis had gone down that road!

What are you on about?

You seem to be blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza not Hamas?

Where did I say that? Israel have chosen to kill as many civilians as it has, it didn't need to, anyone with two eyes could see how heavy and murderous Netanyahu would go in. I called what Hamas did a horrific terror attack, you might have missed that bit? 99% of terror attacks against nations are unprovoked, I wouldn't say this time was entirely unprovoked though if you play devils advocate for a second, however I'm not condoning what happened, as said previous this is evil v evil.

We should focus more on helping Ukraine. Israel are too busy trying to start WW3 and we shouldn't support that. They chose to bomb Iran's consulate and are choosing to retaliate after Iran's retaliation, where Iran have called the matter closed and both nations don't look weak to their people.

[DonnyOsmond]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

That would explain a handful, not 30,000+ civilians dead. They're leveling towns and cities, they don't care, prime example killing the aid workers last week.
They're just radicalising children by murdering their innocent family members in front of them, which will cause another cycle in years time.

Hamas are evil.
The government of Israel and the IDF are evil.

October the 7th wasn't the beginning of this conflict, it's been going on for decades and hadn't paused like some believe prior to a few months ago. There was/is still the land grabs by Israelis, murder of Palestinian children at the border, apartheid, etc. The horrific terrorist attack by Hamas and their allies in the West Bank just gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed to go in and kill Palestinians.

Come on DO. You know that while civilian deaths are of course sad that the 30,000+ figure quoted by the Gazan Health Ministry is not accurate. BRR has admitted this too but still uses their data. Why?

Their definition of a civilian is extremely broad and includes Hamas terrorists. Terrorists who look to maximise civilian casualties themselves to further their cause.

Hamas are just one of Iran’s many proxies. Oct 7th was engineered by them. Let us not forget that Hezbollah are firing rockets at Israel all the time, it just doesn’t make the news because they don’t get through.

Iran orchestrate Oct 7th, then say “The malicious Zionist regime will be punished”. Why does the supreme leader of a theocratic Sharia law regime have a problem with “Zionism”? Surely he puts religion more front and centre than the 20% Arab Israel does? Perhaps his issue is simply with Jews being in the Middle East.

His strategy will be to keep pushing the buttons of the hothead Netanyahu to the point that Israel keep lurching further to the right, become more aggressive and the West withdraws their support. So that missile strikes such as the one he carried out the other day get through and can wipe out Israel.

The BBC, Oxfam, The UN and many others have agreed the figures are around that.

[ncRover]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

That would explain a handful, not 30,000+ civilians dead. They're leveling towns and cities, they don't care, prime example killing the aid workers last week.
They're just radicalising children by murdering their innocent family members in front of them, which will cause another cycle in years time.

Hamas are evil.
The government of Israel and the IDF are evil.

October the 7th wasn't the beginning of this conflict, it's been going on for decades and hadn't paused like some believe prior to a few months ago. There was/is still the land grabs by Israelis, murder of Palestinian children at the border, apartheid, etc. The horrific terrorist attack by Hamas and their allies in the West Bank just gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed to go in and kill Palestinians.

Come on DO. You know that while civilian deaths are of course sad that the 30,000+ figure quoted by the Gazan Health Ministry is not accurate. BRR has admitted this too but still uses their data. Why?

Their definition of a civilian is extremely broad and includes Hamas terrorists. Terrorists who look to maximise civilian casualties themselves to further their cause.

Hamas are just one of Iran’s many proxies. Oct 7th was engineered by them. Let us not forget that Hezbollah are firing rockets at Israel all the time, it just doesn’t make the news because they don’t get through.

Iran orchestrate Oct 7th, then say “The malicious Zionist regime will be punished”. Why does the supreme leader of a theocratic Sharia law regime have a problem with “Zionism”? Surely he puts religion more front and centre than the 20% Arab Israel does? Perhaps his issue is simply with Jews being in the Middle East.

His strategy will be to keep pushing the buttons of the hothead Netanyahu to the point that Israel keep lurching further to the right, become more aggressive and the West withdraws their support. So that missile strikes such as the one he carried out the other day get through and can wipe out Israel.

The BBC, Oxfam, The UN and many others have agreed the figures are around that.

I’m happy to stand corrected but that’s very similar to the total number coming out of the Gazan Health Ministry

[Bristol Red Rover]

Nc, your sources are poor. As DO said, the figures are widely supported. Indeed if you have eyes, you can see what happened. More than likely the figure is higher. Anyway, what are you quibbling about? 20k dead not significant for you?

[Bristol Red Rover]

The biggest problem, as pointed out by DO, with the likes of sproty,  Nc, Selby Is they are intent on backing an insane evil strategy that bleeds violence to the future, as well as in the present. BST would bring Hitler into this, and would be correct in this instance.

[MachoMadness]

But as for the above, Israel is very much as bad as it gets. Deliberately murdering 35k civilians is pretty evil don't you think?

Casualties of War caused by a bunch of Cowards using Women and Children as a shield!

That would explain a handful, not 30,000+ civilians dead. They're leveling towns and cities, they don't care, prime example killing the aid workers last week.
They're just radicalising children by murdering their innocent family members in front of them, which will cause another cycle in years time.

Hamas are evil.
The government of Israel and the IDF are evil.

October the 7th wasn't the beginning of this conflict, it's been going on for decades and hadn't paused like some believe prior to a few months ago. There was/is still the land grabs by Israelis, murder of Palestinian children at the border, apartheid, etc. The horrific terrorist attack by Hamas and their allies in the West Bank just gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed to go in and kill Palestinians.

Come on DO. You know that while civilian deaths are of course sad that the 30,000+ figure quoted by the Gazan Health Ministry is not accurate. BRR has admitted this too but still uses their data. Why?

Their definition of a civilian is extremely broad and includes Hamas terrorists. Terrorists who look to maximise civilian casualties themselves to further their cause.

Hamas are just one of Iran’s many proxies. Oct 7th was engineered by them. Let us not forget that Hezbollah are firing rockets at Israel all the time, it just doesn’t make the news because they don’t get through.

Iran orchestrate Oct 7th, then say “The malicious Zionist regime will be punished”. Why does the supreme leader of a theocratic Sharia law regime have a problem with “Zionism”? Surely he puts religion more front and centre than the 20% Arab Israel does? Perhaps his issue is simply with Jews being in the Middle East.

His strategy will be to keep pushing the buttons of the hothead Netanyahu to the point that Israel keep lurching further to the right, become more aggressive and the West withdraws their support. So that missile strikes such as the one he carried out the other day get through and can wipe out Israel.

The BBC, Oxfam, The UN and many others have agreed the figures are around that.

Most independent organisations actually state this number is likely much lower than the real figure, as it is likely many bodies are still buried under rubble.

[ncRover]

Yes of course. Like I said, happy to stand corrected.

[Sprotyrover]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/15/iran-israel-russia-drones-missiles/
I wonder what the Israeli War Cabinet will make of this?

[SydneyRover]

No one but Israel wants to escalate this. Not the Americans who have already said they aren't going to war with Iran. Not even the Iranians who  flagged up what they intended to do and quickly said it's done with now.

It's Netanyahu and the Israeli right who are trying to set this course. There should be no retaliation against Iran.

''Benjamin Netanyahu is seeking to trap the west into a total war across the Middle East that would have incalculable consequences for the region and the world, Iran’s top diplomat in the UK has claimed, in his first interview since Tehran launched an unprecedented missile and drone attack against Israel at the weekend''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/16/netanyahu-aims-to-trap-west-into-war-across-middle-east-warns-iranian-diplomat

Most leaders across the world would agree with this but few will say so in public.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Netanyahu tells Cameron that Israel makes its own decisions. Cameron doesn't tell Israel that therefore UK goodwill, jets, missiles, and tax payers money won't be helping.

Cameron/UK acting like a shit dad to a spoilt child?