Var

[bpoolrover]

How can the ref give a penalty in the newcastle game! Im sure half the refs must be on the take nowadays there that bad

[BillyStubbsTears]

Shocking int it?

There'll be jubilation in the streets of Doha, and mortification in the streets of Riyadh.

[scawsby steve]

A Rovers fan watching Newcastle when we're at home and on iFollow?

[Donnywolf]

I think they ought to try something extreme , and experiment without it for 10 games letting the Ref make every decision

After that make a judgement on whether they think things have improved ?

[drfchound]

That is a good idea Wolfie but I don’t think it will happen.

[ravenrover]

How can the ref give a penalty in the newcastle game! Im sure half the refs must be on the take nowadays there that bad

Just seen it 1st thoughts never a penalty
2nd viewing I can see why he gave it, yes it was close to him when Mbappe played it, yes his arm wasn't in an unatural position he was on the run but he did appear to pull his arm down as the ball hit him and I think it was that slight downward movement that persuaded the ref to give it JMHO

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Alot of folk and the media jumping on the 'kick VAR' bandwagon, but this was entirely the decision of the ref.

Yes, it was body first then ricochet onto the arm but was the arm in an annatural position to stop the ball getting to it's destination?

As you say raven, I think that's what influenced the ref, eventhough 99% of us would react no pen.

This is all about the interpretation of the handball rules by the referee NOT VAR.

[Donnywolf]

How can the ref give a penalty in the newcastle game! Im sure half the refs must be on the take nowadays there that bad

Just seen it 1st thoughts never a penalty
2nd viewing I can see why he gave it, yes it was close to him when Mbappe played it, yes his arm wasn't in an unatural position he was on the run but he did appear to pull his arm down as the ball hit him and I think it was that slight downward movement that persuaded the ref to give it JMHO

..... haven't seen it but the bloke on BBC Sport said on Radio as I drove home " PSG fans have been howling for every Thrown in , every corner but more importantly a goal , ANY Goal and there was no way he wasn't going to give them that Penalty"

No doubt the Head of Var ( equivalent of Howard Webb ) will eventually apologise to Newcastle but what good is that if they get knocked out

I think Webb has issued 2 apologies to Wolves ( may be 3) already this Season which may have cost them Points. It's always difficult to say what would happen in all scenarios , would a Pen be scored , would an opposing Team have scored later in a game if their Offside goal hadn't been judged illegal.

Penalties against a Team when score was 1-1 and opponents score in 90+8 DID change that game and cost Wolves 2 points to Sheff U who MIGHT survive in Prem by a single point at end of Season and relegate say Luton and how unfair would that be ?

This was let's remember trumpeted as a definitive decision maker . Try telling that to Wolves fans where v Fulham on Monday Ref turned down a Penalty for Fulham , then VAR got involved and looked at the "trip" at least 15 times from several angles before referring the Ref to the Monitor where he looked and looked again until he decided his first decision was wrong. Definitive decision ? I think not

This is not a poor old Wolves post. It's happening again and again to all Teams even the " big " Teams and it is not good enough

This is what Jeff Stelling said on Twitter today

It is the people’s game. How many of the people would be upset if we scrapped VAR ? Not me !

[Mike_F]

Yes, it was body first then ricochet onto the arm but was the arm in an annatural position to stop the ball getting to it's destination?

I've not seen the incident in question but the laws of the game and IFAB ruling are very clear that ricochets off the body to the hand/arm are not handball offences.

Obviously there has to be a line drawn between a ricochet and a controlled play from body to hand but a genuine ricochet is not an offence.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

That's such a cop-out, saying scrap VAR. Folk tend to pick and choose when they like it and when they don't.

But what is 'it' ? If there were to be adult conversations about which aspects of using VAR are good, and those where an off fiield VAR official almost interferes with the game, and where there's more grey areas, then we can move forward.

It has to function to assist the officials in getting more key decisions right. Allowing the ref to review his own decsions or situations is where we should be heading so 'VAR' needs to evolve  Behind the scenes decision making in the VAR room is wrong. The information has to be relayed to the ref for him to make the onfield decision, often by reviewing the footage.

The referees themselves should want to embrace it and want to review certain decisions, and that has to be communicated to fans during the game, so it's clear what's being reviewed.

VAR or no VAR, there's always going to be contentious situations, it just adds to the drama.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Yes, it was body first then ricochet onto the arm but was the arm in an annatural position to stop the ball getting to it's destination?

I've not seen the incident in question but the laws of the game and IFAB ruling are very clear that ricochets off the body to the hand/arm are not handball offences.

Obviously there has to be a line drawn between a ricochet and a controlled play from body to hand but a genuine ricochet is not an offence.

Yes Mike, we have heard to rule but what if it was the players intention to handle the ball but it hits the body first?

All I'm saying is, it's the ref who's interpreted a rule so, is it a poor interpretation? Or have we not fully understood why he's given it?

[steve@dcfd]

The referee made the decision he could have stuck by his original view but looking at the screen with pressure from the crowd it makes the decision making hard.
The ball hit his chest and then it his elbow  he was in a running motion so can’t see why the penalty was given.
In the same game the ball came off a Newcastle players thigh  then hit his hand VAR checked it but never asked the referee to look. Same decision making process.

[Donnywolf]

It's Wolves again but how many of we Rovers Fans would want this giving against us after going 1 0 up away with 10 men

I don't know where this fits in with the ricochet off body etc but EVERY pundit on MOTD at the time and Sky live said "ridiculous"

https://youtu.be/G_rDdpL-6IE?feature=shared

[Donnywolf]

It's towards the end. 1 min 25 will cue it up

[Donnywolf]

++++ update ++++

VAR in PSG Magpies game " stood down"

Well that didnt take long did it , but still leaves Newcastle facing elimination in last Match of the League set up

[VivaRovers]

A Rovers fan watching Newcastle when we're at home and on iFollow?

Disgraceful... didn't he realise it was the Bake Off final!?

[Donnywolf]

He went with the Half Baked Ref and VAR combo by sound of it

[VivaRovers]

This was let's remember trumpeted as a definitive decision maker...

This is the problem with VAR right here, the laws of the game around fouls and handballs are subjective, which is precisely why you have a referee in the first place, to be an independent arbitrator. People have championed VAR expecting it to be able to give definitive black/white answers on things that aren't black/white.

Just trust the bloke with the whistle to give the decision to the best of their ability and crack on. Sometimes you'll get the calls, sometimes you won't. That's life. The expectation on officials to be perfect every game when footballers aren't is ridiculous.

[selby]

  Personally I don't like it because it gives the big club supporting referees a second chance.
  The big clubs like it.
  And in cricket India now like it because they get unusual bounces of the ball hitting the wicket for LBW.
  The camera doesn't lie, but in the end it doesn't give the decision some bent barsteward does usually a fan of big clubs.
   The main difference is to cheat only took a second and in most cases were not quickly picked up on, now it takes minutes and most think, you barsteward

[ncRover]

Shocking int it?

There'll be jubilation in the streets of Doha, and mortification in the streets of Riyadh.

And the millions that they constantly pay
It says nothing to me about my life

[Donnywolf]

This was let's remember trumpeted as a definitive decision maker...

This is the problem with VAR right here, the laws of the game around fouls and handballs are subjective, which is precisely why you have a referee in the first place, to be an independent arbitrator. People have championed VAR expecting it to be able to give definitive black/white answers on things that aren't black/white.

Just trust the bloke with the whistle to give the decision to the best of their ability and crack on. Sometimes you'll get the calls, sometimes you won't. That's life. The expectation on officials to be perfect every game when footballers aren't is ridiculous.

Agree Viva but are you advocating an end to VAR or for it to decide the objective calls such as Offside and Refs get the rest

See they are now proposing Corners and Yellow Cards coming under their "domain" as well

[ravenrover]

And free kicks

[VivaRovers]

Agree Viva but are you advocating an end to VAR or for it to decide the objective calls such as Offside and Refs get the rest

See they are now proposing Corners and Yellow Cards coming under their "domain" as well

I'd bin it off entirely... but then also it doesn't affect about 95% of my football watching anyway. The only matches I've attend where it's used are internationals, and West Ham away in the FA Cup the other season. The big reason I don't like it is that up until it's introduction football was one of the rare sports where the rules were exactly the same whether you were playing in the Donny Sunday League or the Premier League. So it's taken a big bit of egality out of the game

But if you must use it then you can only really use it for black and white decisions, so the goal-line technology they have implemented is a an example of that working. And it also makes sense because it's often a blind spot for officials (it's rare an assistant referee is ever going to be fully in-line).

If you're of the mind that all decisions must be 100% accurate then offside is also where it can be used. But then ultimately people then complain if a player is given offside when their toe is offside, despite this being exactly the sort of accuracy that people clamouring for VAR were wanting.

[danumdon]

Shocking decision, the referee should of never have been put in that position, I've yet to see an official stick with their original decision after they have been called over to have another look. Its almost interpreted as 'you have made the wrong call and you need to change it'

The VAR official could have taken all the pressure off the ref by not referring it back to him. The ball hitting his arm after bouncing off his body is just plain wrong, not sure how they could interpret that as the player having his arm in an unusual position in that split second, really quite bizarre and plenty of suspicion of corruption being in play.

Just goes to show when it comes to so called "big teams" with plenty of clout behind them and a baying crowd, regardless of the officials they ALWAYS cave in.

Newcastle have been robbed and will probably now not qualify  for the knockout stages, its not that they need the cash but still, further evidence of a system that is being managed incorrectly.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Frankly, who gives a f**k?

[sedwardsdrfc]

I don’t mind the idea of them using it for offsides they just need to get quicker, and better at doing it.

I think for everything else it’s not adding anything to the game and is making it harder to watch at that level.

I would say if scrapped we’d need a solution to mistaken identity and off the ball type red cards that you can only rely on the ref for so much. But that’s for where there’s been violent conduct or the refs red carded the wrong bloke so it’s at the extreme end of decisions.

[Donnywolf]

Agree Viva but are you advocating an end to VAR or for it to decide the objective calls such as Offside and Refs get the rest

See they are now proposing Corners and Yellow Cards coming under their "domain" as well

I'd bin it off entirely... but then also it doesn't affect about 95% of my football watching anyway. The only matches I've attend where it's used are internationals, and West Ham away in the FA Cup the other season. The big reason I don't like it is that up until it's introduction football was one of the rare sports where the rules were exactly the same whether you were playing in the Donny Sunday League or the Premier League. So it's taken a big bit of egality out of the game

But if you must use it then you can only really use it for black and white decisions, so the goal-line technology they have implemented is a an example of that working. And it also makes sense because it's often a blind spot for officials (it's rare an assistant referee is ever going to be fully in-line).

If you're of the mind that all decisions must be 100% accurate then offside is also where it can be used. But then ultimately people then complain if a player is given offside when their toe is offside, despite this being exactly the sort of accuracy that people clamouring for VAR were wanting.

Glad to hear that and as I alluded to in #3 above I would not be sad if they binned it off OR went hybrid with Ref backed up on black and white decisions  by VAR

[bpoolrover]

A Rovers fan watching Newcastle when we're at home and on iFollow?

you must have been the only rovers fan still watching the game at one minute past 10, technology is anazing nowadays, with a click of a button you can change channels

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Shocking decision, the referee should of never have been put in that position, I've yet to see an official stick with their original decision after they have been called over to have another look. Its almost interpreted as 'you have made the wrong call and you need to change it'

The VAR official could have taken all the pressure off the ref by not referring it back to him. The ball hitting his arm after bouncing off his body is just plain wrong, not sure how they could interpret that as the player having his arm in an unusual position in that split second, really quite bizarre and plenty of suspicion of corruption being in play.

Just goes to show when it comes to so called "big teams" with plenty of clout behind them and a baying crowd, regardless of the officials they ALWAYS cave in.

Newcastle have been robbed and will probably now not qualify  for the knockout stages, its not that they need the cash but still, further evidence of a system that is being managed incorrectly.

I think that's the crux of it. What led to the ref changing his original decision.

If the VAR official has been 'stood down' then so should the ref!

The communication between VAR and ref needs to be published, and ideally be heard at the time, so it's clear to everyone what they're checking for and why.

The ref should have stuck with the original decision and the replay should be there for all to see, so those players  fans who were appealing for it can see they were wrong.

There's a good discussion about it on Talksport.

https://youtu.be/az10Rf_fsQA?si=p-te6KQMeJUItRjV

[Reg of the Rovers]

Shocking int it?

There'll be jubilation in the streets of Doha, and mortification in the streets of Riyadh.

And the millions that they constantly pay
It says nothing to me about my life

Don't panic NC