Is this for real or is he in fact being racist ??? Discuss

[turnbull for england]

Lad I worked with is 2nd generation from a windrush family. His wife's white and they went to where family was from , one of the smaller islands, not many tourists. After a few days of being one of few white people around  his wife said " oh this is how you feel" . Noone had been rude or off off with her  but she'd  noticed how her being different made her stand out whenever she went in shop etc and how that made her feel. Been married to him for years and still didn't really really get it until it happened to her

But did she feel it was wrong for that small island not to have more white people?

I very much doubt it, but there again she was there for fortnight, not 50 yrs of feeling like she's not instantly comfortable in certain situations.. This from a woman about the bloke she loves,and lived with for 30 yrs and she'd never really understood how it was for him till she experienced it . IIf you haven't experienced it or even noticed it, you don't realise what it feels like

[belton rover]

Belton
I've not put you on ignore yet, because I can't from a phone.

Your last two posts sum up the issue.

You accused me of posting "deliberately ambiguous comments".  You said "You like to cast a line in a way that then allows you profess your innocence should you be challenged."

That is deeply offensive as well as being plain wrong.

When I forcefully pointed out that was wrong and that I do NOT do that, you have repeatedly refused to accept that. Which means beyond any shadow of doubt that you think I am lying when I refuse your accusation.

And once again, while making the case that you are right,  you've now flipped onto talking about "ambiguity" without the "deliberate".

Of course everyone writes ambiguous things. Because none of us are perfect. That's a million miles from DELIBERATELY writing ambiguously in order to f**k about with people.

If you overstepped in your original post, that's fine. We all write things in haste. But if your original post really reflects how you think I behave, then I want absolutely nothing more to do with you.

I didn’t deliberately leave out the word ‘deliberately’. But now I’ve told you that, do you believe it to be true?

[belton rover]

Billy. One final thing to say in the hope that you don’t put me on ignore.

I can’t suddenly say I now believe that you have never been deliberately ambiguous. I do regret, however, bringing up past posts.
I apologise for that.
The ridiculous thing is that this unfortunate exchange stemmed from something someone else wrote!
I know I still have to work on things.
Again, I apologise.

[tyke1962]

Lad I worked with is 2nd generation from a windrush family. His wife's white and they went to where family was from , one of the smaller islands, not many tourists. After a few days of being one of few white people around  his wife said " oh this is how you feel" . Noone had been rude or off off with her  but she'd  noticed how her being different made her stand out whenever she went in shop etc and how that made her feel. Been married to him for years and still didn't really really get it until it happened to her

But did she feel it was wrong for that small island not to have more white people?

I very much doubt it, but there again she was there for fortnight, not 50 yrs of feeling like she's not instantly comfortable in certain situations.. This from a woman about the bloke she loves,and lived with for 30 yrs and she'd never really understood how it was for him till she experienced it . IIf you haven't experienced it or even noticed it, you don't realise what it feels like

To say the lived experience narrative has no merit what so ever would be totally wrong , for instance how could any one of us really know what it was like to have lived through the holocaust for instance , it doesn't stop us talking about it though and neither should it .

I don't like the lived experience narrative when it's used in a way that suggests " well you aren't black so what do you know " kind of way .

Does that mean only black people are allowed to talk about it ?

If so we would have to believe every word they said and whilst I'm not disputing what you've posted what so ever nobody can realistically expect the lived experience narrative to be the absolute truth 100% of the time .

My definition of racism is , using the colour of a person's skin colour against them in order to feel superior over them .

It could also be in lesser cases , using the colour of a person's skin against them because you feel inferior to them , otherwise known as resentment .

Now in the context of this debate and the person we are debating that might be why he made the comments , I do say might and it's only my opinion .

I don't have to live the life of a brown man to understand resentment given we are all capable of feeling resentful .

[DRFC_AjA]

Someone calling him a p*** in the street has nothing to do with what he said. Someone not liking his show has nothing to do with what he said. What he said was that the colour of your skin gives him mental health issues. The coloir of your skin means he has nothing in common with you and CANT relate to you. What a disgusting thing to say. But naturally, barely an eyelid batted yet if it had been the other way outrage from the cancel mob

Why can someone of a different skin colour to you not be someone with whom you can confide in, talk to about issues, be a mentor, understand your problems in life. How dare you say that because your skin is a different pigment that we have nothing in common, can't talk, can't help each other through difficult times. The disgusting divisiveness that's happening in society these days never ceases to amaze

Oh and if we're talking about lived experience then apparently the colour of your skin dictates you're privileged because yes its socially acceptable for that simply because of the white pigment in your skin you're privileged (FYI Asians disprove this but never mind, pigment of skin divisions only become greater)

[DRFC_AjA]

As of March 2022, 16.4% of all BBC employees were BAME. The BBC aims to get this to 20%.

Leadership positions were 13.1% BAME. And the BBC also aims to get this to 20%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/documents/equality-information-report-2022.pdf

According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) based on population survey figures from 2019, people from ethnic minority backgrounds make up 14.4% of the United Kingdom population.

The institute for public policy research estimates that by 21% of the UK population will be BAME by 2030.

So given that the population of UK is 14% BAME aka 86% white (let's assume England is roughly the same) the last England squad starting 11 was 45% white. How disgusting, how racist, there's obviously barriers to white people getting a chance and this must be addressed with quotas asap....disgusting isn't it to start dividing everyone by skin pigment, grouping, saying you don't look like me so I can't be inspired by you or you can't help me. Yet apparently if you're Nishad then your skin colour can give mental health issues, apparently if your white you can't inspire someone of a different colour as per the hooha recently about the arsenal women team being "too white"  rrriiiggghhhttt because you could say Lewis Hamilton doesn't inspire me because he's not white

[tyke1962]

As of March 2022, 16.4% of all BBC employees were BAME. The BBC aims to get this to 20%.

Leadership positions were 13.1% BAME. And the BBC also aims to get this to 20%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/documents/equality-information-report-2022.pdf

According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) based on population survey figures from 2019, people from ethnic minority backgrounds make up 14.4% of the United Kingdom population.

The institute for public policy research estimates that by 21% of the UK population will be BAME by 2030.

So given that the population of UK is 14% BAME aka 86% white (let's assume England is roughly the same) the last England squad starting 11 was 45% white. How disgusting, how racist, there's obviously barriers to white people getting a chance and this must be addressed with quotas asap....disgusting isn't it to start dividing everyone by skin pigment, grouping, saying you don't look like me so I can't be inspired by you or you can't help me. Yet apparently if you're Nishad then your skin colour can give mental health issues, apparently if your white you can't inspire someone of a different colour as per the hooha recently about the arsenal women team being "too white"  rrriiiggghhhttt because you could say Lewis Hamilton doesn't inspire me because he's not white

The so called progressive left do like their labels , everyone neatly arranged and a label stuck on their head .

Without labels you see they can't play identity politics .

They like to change them too from time to time or add bits to them when they realise there's a new group they've discovered but doesn't really qualify for it's own label .

It's fascinating stuff , there's all sorts of theories thrown around , Cultural Marxism seems to have some legs , the theory is that Marx failed on economics so let's bring capitalism down through culture instead .

Funnily enough Marx was a horrible racist , different times of course but none the less a racist .

It's a funny old world mate .

[BillyStubbsTears]

As of March 2022, 16.4% of all BBC employees were BAME. The BBC aims to get this to 20%.

Leadership positions were 13.1% BAME. And the BBC also aims to get this to 20%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/documents/equality-information-report-2022.pdf

According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) based on population survey figures from 2019, people from ethnic minority backgrounds make up 14.4% of the United Kingdom population.

The institute for public policy research estimates that by 21% of the UK population will be BAME by 2030.

So given that the population of UK is 14% BAME aka 86% white (let's assume England is roughly the same) the last England squad starting 11 was 45% white. How disgusting, how racist, there's obviously barriers to white people getting a chance and this must be addressed with quotas asap....disgusting isn't it to start dividing everyone by skin pigment, grouping, saying you don't look like me so I can't be inspired by you or you can't help me. Yet apparently if you're Nishad then your skin colour can give mental health issues, apparently if your white you can't inspire someone of a different colour as per the hooha recently about the arsenal women team being "too white"  rrriiiggghhhttt because you could say Lewis Hamilton doesn't inspire me because he's not white

Someone calling him a p*** in the street has nothing to do with what he said. Someone not liking his show has nothing to do with what he said. What he said was that the colour of your skin gives him mental health issues. The coloir of your skin means he has nothing in common with you and CANT relate to you. What a disgusting thing to say. But naturally, barely an eyelid batted yet if it had been the other way outrage from the cancel mob

That's a superbly insightful and well argued paragraph.

Err.

Apart from the fact that he didn't say what you say he said. Why do you do this?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Billy. One final thing to say in the hope that you don’t put me on ignore.

I can’t suddenly say I now believe that you have never been deliberately ambiguous. I do regret, however, bringing up past posts.
I apologise for that.
The ridiculous thing is that this unfortunate exchange stemmed from something someone else wrote!
I know I still have to work on things.
Again, I apologise.

Belton.

We obviously knock sparks off each other, and I won't lie - I was and am genuinely insulted by the inference of your post. But ok, I'll not hit the ignore button. Here's to more cordial exchanges in future.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

You use far-right Culture War terms like "Cultural Marxism".

And you claim to be a socialist?

I suspect you'd have been on Moseley's side in the 30s. Another so-called socialist who fell for the siren call of the far right.

[Pancho Regan]

Arthanayake ought to have been with me in the Broadway shopping centre in Bradford on Saturday 2 weeks ago.

90% of the shoppers were ‘his colour’ so presumably it would have done his mental health the world of good.

[MachoMadness]

Cultural Marxism is a far right conspiracy theory pushed by white supremacists. It says that immigration, LGBT rights, and so on are actually the result of a secret Jewish plot to destroy the west. Always worth pointing that out.

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

You use far-right Culture War terms like "Cultural Marxism".

And you claim to be a socialist?

I suspect you'd have been on Moseley's side in the 30s. Another so-called socialist who fell for the siren call of the far right.

Your doing the labelling thing Billy , now I know you progressives have had the humour part of your brain removed but surely even you could detect I was laughing along with the idea of Cultural Marxism , clearly not .

I'm just wondering what other part of your brain you've had removed , here's me calling out racism on this thread and here's you calling me Oswald Moseley .

That's proper fuqued up shyte .

[BillyStubbsTears]

"Cultural Marxism seems to have some legs."

Forgive me for missing the bit I was supposed to laugh at.

[tyke1962]

"Cultural Marxism seems to have some legs."

Forgive me for missing the bit I was supposed to laugh at.

What I meant was legs as a theory some use , the same people who watch nobody's who create YouTube channels for click bait and algorithms .

I can't believe you'd think I'd find the Cultural Marxism  even remotely believable .

I'd actually never heard of it until last year and saw it mentioned in an article I was reading so I looked it up .

I think you get too defensive about culture wars Billy I really do but sticking labels on people just plays in to their hands .

There wasn't the enemy out there many on the progressive left thought there was  and pushing this , that and the other to obsessive levels at times can turn people against them .

[wilts rover]

It doesn't mean that. It means he's made acutely aware of his own skin colour by the lack of diversity at work, and, if he's racially abused on the street for example, he doesn't have anyone at work who'll really understand what that's like. No one he works with will, either. But the people he was speaking to in that conference, young people from minority backgrounds, probably will. The context is important.

It's easy for us on here to sit and say we don't think about skin colour. The truth is we never really have to, as white people. We're the default in this country. He'll be confronted with it every day, and I imagine it must get wearing when you can't even have a proper conversation about it, as some of the responses on here demonstrate.

Macho, it is impossible to have a proper discussion on here about these kind of matters. If anyone shows any opinion other than showing outrage and disgust regarding how he says he feels, then they are accused of at worst being racist, and at best being out of touch with society, as some of the responses on here demonstrate.

Where on this thread has anyone accused a contributor to the thread of being racist?

What do YOU think Wilts meant?
I asked him but he never responded.

Well he wouldn't do as he has only just read the thread since posting. Unlike some other posters this forum occupies very little of my time or interest.

Wilts meant exactly what he said in his post. It's up to people reading it to interpretate it as they want too. If they want to read something into it that isn't there - then that's their problem. If they want to misrepresent what I wrote - then that's also their problem.

Wilts. I never said you had chosen not to answer, just that you hadn’t. You haven’t answered yet though, although that’s fine by me.
Let me try to explain where I’m coming from:

Phrase: and you think I’M stupid
Meaning: you’re the one who’s stupid, not me.

Phrase: And you think THEY’RE out of order
Meaning: It’s you who is out of order, not them.

Phrase: And Sunak thinks STARMER is a liar.
Meaning: it’s Sunak who is the liar, not Starmer.

Phrase: And some of them think HE is a racist.
Meaning: it’s them who are racist, not him.

If that isn’t what you meant, then perhaps you should consider how you word things and how you choose to use capital letters.
I don’t believe, judging by your historical posts, that you have any difficulty in understanding how to write with meaning.

As I said Belton, if you want to interpret that into my post, then that's your problem.

Alhough as the title of this actual thread is '.... is he in fact being racist' I fail to see the relevance of you being stupid and what Sunak thinks of Starmer is to it?

But I agree with your surmise that words can take on different meanings to different readers. For instance, you wrote this:

What do YOU think Wilts meant?
I asked him but he never responded.

Now that to me seems like a demand for me to respond. 'I asked him but he never responded'. Therefore you are expecting a response.

Yet, 'Wilts. I never said you had chosen not to answer'.

I never said you had. I gave an answer to why I had not responded earlier. Yet you have turned that into something else using words I have not used.

[DRFC_AjA]

What's even worse is he's saying this at a forum for the next generation. If you walk into a room and nobody looks lime you then the default setting should be; be offended and assume nobody has anything in common with you, and it's their problem not on you to integrate in any way.

The world is getting more divisive due to things like this

BTW I'm driving to the match today and can offer a lift, but you must look like me because otherwise we'd having nothing in common and you'd give me mental health issues

[belton rover]

I could respond with ‘I meant exactly what I said in my post. It's up to people reading it to interpretate it as they want too. If they want to read something into it that isn't there - then that's their problem. If they want to misrepresent what I wrote - then that's also their problem’

But that would be churlish.

You’re right about different interpretations found in words. But I think interpretations are often made because of who the author is rather than the words written.
Not everyone will admit to that, though.

[Colin C No.3]

Is the term ‘Tread gingerly’ still ‘acceptable’?

[drfchound]

Probably not in the eyes of some people.