Electric cars and the environment (warning cheat sheet)

[albie]

RD,

The SMMT produce data updated every month;
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/evs-and-afvs-registrations/

I would not rely on newspaper reports rather than the actual data.

BRR,

Quite right.
Public transport will also electrify, which will reduce air pollution in urban areas.
The interesting point here is that if bus operators have no petrol/diesel bill, and can produce their own leccy, then the scope for fare reductions is clear.

Whether private operators will pass that cost saving to passengers is a different question.

[River Don]

Yes, interesting that it's such a big discrepancy but I'm happy to accept that figure of 21%

I wonder if the figure I saw was the previous year reported incorrectly... I might have read it in the Mail, it's the in-house newspaper of the residents in the retirement living building where my Mum is. There is often a copy in the communal lounge.

[River Don]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but, isn't the real issue here about making public transport unavoidably the best option? Many ways to do that, tho obviously not selfishly Thatcherite enough for some. And your Clarkson wannabees will be sulking at the thought. But, this is the future.

I agree but getting people out of their cars will be a devil of a job. Particularly now we have a government that has cancelled it's forward looking electric rail project and is now looking to invest more in roads... In the south.

I have to make a regular journey to that place south of Coventry. London, I think it's called. I ended up going down by car, much cheaper than the train. We stayed outside the ulez and intended to travel in by train but again for three of us, paying the ulez was much cheaper. I have a turbo diesel which was actually being encouraged when I bought it. No tax to pay even now.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but, isn't the real issue here about making public transport unavoidably the best option? Many ways to do that, tho obviously not selfishly Thatcherite enough for some. And your Clarkson wannabees will be sulking at the thought. But, this is the future.

Problem with that is much of our employment areas (particularly in Doncaster) are well outside of public transport areas and far too inaccessible.

[normal rules]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but, isn't the real issue here about making public transport unavoidably the best option? Many ways to do that, tho obviously not selfishly Thatcherite enough for some. And your Clarkson wannabees will be sulking at the thought. But, this is the future.

Until they go on strike .

[SydneyRover]

or they are cancelled

''Quarter of bus routes axed in England in last decade

Campaigners say Rishi Sunak gave tax break to car users but has not helped public transport users''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/04/quarter-of-bus-routes-axed-in-england-in-last-decade

[Bristol Red Rover]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but, isn't the real issue here about making public transport unavoidably the best option? Many ways to do that, tho obviously not selfishly Thatcherite enough for some. And your Clarkson wannabees will be sulking at the thought. But, this is the future.

Problem with that is much of our employment areas (particularly in Doncaster) are well outside of public transport areas and far too inaccessible.

Choices. Even now it is possible to change that. In the very near future - driverless vehicles - it'll be easy.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but, isn't the real issue here about making public transport unavoidably the best option? Many ways to do that, tho obviously not selfishly Thatcherite enough for some. And your Clarkson wannabees will be sulking at the thought. But, this is the future.

Until they go on strike .

Public transport doesn't necessarily mean nationalised,  or a conglomerate. Can easily be designed in a fair way. And driverless vehicles changes a lot. The alternative is a huge costly public and private system, on all levels, like we have now.

[drfchound]

But you don't want to work or live near a nuclear plant? It's safe for someone else to take the risk.

My brother worked at Sellafield for about a year and came home with more than he went with.

That might have been down to Sellafield Sue.

[SydneyRover]

So why all the fuss hound, all you have have to do is apologise for making that remark about my brother and keep my family out of your petty little squabbles.

[drfchound]

So why all the fuss hound, all you have have to do is apologise for making that remark about my brother and keep my family out of your petty little squabbles.

The fuss is because you lied about me removing a post, which I clearly didn’t.
I’m not responding to your maggots on this now because you have clearly gone back to your WUM mode.
I always thought that people in Australia had a sense of humour.

[SydneyRover]

I've told you my brother lives near the ground, he still may have his sense of humour, pm me and I'll give you the address so you can check.

[drfchound]

I know you did, and I said I would love to meet him if he is ever in the South Stand.

[Sprotyrover]

If he does come to Rovers he will not associate himself with his moronic brother!

[SydneyRover]

If he does come to Rovers he will not associate himself with his moronic brother!

How was your weekend sprot, Friday and Saturday would be your big nights?

[normal rules]

I see Vauxhall have reduced the price of their electric corsa by £5550. To try to tempt people into the ev market. It’s still £26895. For a Corsa ffs.

[Bentley Bullet]

I see Vauxhall have reduced the price of their electric corsa by £5550. To try to tempt people into the ev market. It’s still £26895. For a Corsa ffs.

Shocking

[normal rules]

Ev depreciation.

Over 50% of used car dealers that were asked recently were less interested in taking on an EV than they were a year ago citing big concerns around depreciation and inability to sell on.

One I pace driver commented on a JLR forum that he took his 18 month old I pace in for a swap , cost him 77 grand new. It had 5000 miles on clock. His local jag dealer offered him 27 grand in Part ex for it . 65% loss.

[Mike_F]

I'll be ready to swap my car in about a year's time all being well and I'm seriously considering a second hand Taycan Sport Turismo (Basically a Taycan Estate). Residuals are through the floor, with decent examples available for £50k or less now. Some of them have options priced at £35k+ on new list. If I can pick up a good one for c. £40k in a year's time (Current car will probably be worth about £15k at that point and I save a bit of money every month towards the next one) it's a very tempting proposition. Just want to understand real world range and have a look at boot space etc.

[Ldr]

There should be plenty of bargains around now for Tesla 3 and y models, these were special offers on the nhs lease scheme around 3 years back so will now all be ending and been shipped to cinch and other dealers. In another 3 years it will be bmw ix xdrive 40 models

[Mike_F]

I wouldn't pay for a Tesla in washers. The ones I've been in felt like they'd been built by a three year old. And When I did consider looking at one in 2019 before I bought my current car, the staff at the Leeds branch were the most arrogant and ignorant set of Kitsons I've ever had the misfortune to encounter.

[selby]

  Don't forget to link your phone when you set off, you might need the police to escort you to a motorway to ram you to a stop.

[normal rules]

I was giving some consideration into a low mileage three year old I pace. Which you can pick up fully loaded for around 20k. But then I found out that the I pace is soon to be discontinued by 2025 by JLR meaning it will suffer even more catastrophic depreciation due to issues around parts and support .essentially in a few years time they will be worth next to nothing .

[selby]

  Take road tax and fuel duty off ice cars they are four times cheaper to run than an EV,  take the ice cars and their tax burden off the roads and transfer it to EV's whether price per mile or whatever and your EV will be four times more expensive to run than the car most pf us run about in now as the prices are about par at the moment.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I'm not convinced about that Selby. I can do 200 miles in my EV for £3.50. Good luck beating that.

[albie]

I don't know where you get this idea from, Selby.
Post a link if it is from a reliable source.

The Government have some basic stats on running cost comparisons;
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electric-vehicles-costs-charging-and-infrastructure/electric-vehicles-costs-charging-and-infrastructure

The point NR makes about reduced value for second hand EV resale is a good thing surely.
It means that second use purchase becomes more affordable for those on a lower budget.

[selby]

  And when, not if, they pass on the equivalent cost of road  tolls to EV's as ice cars pay in fuel duty and road tax? or do you think they will just write that off as a good will gesture?
  My costs of equivalent mileage include them costs now, take them off and it would be much closer, about 70% of my costs but I doubt it will be in the main parties manifesto, and your future will be to pay the same, in fact the first couple of budgets of whoever is in power next could be interesting for EV owners, and there is an ever larger EV owning community ripe for picking with all new cars already having the tech to track miles covered, and business advantages that can be dropped.

[SydneyRover]

If damage to the environment was costed and added to oil users as a tax, which has not been done to date ...........

[albie]

Selby,

I think that the tax regime for vehicles will change, but how it will change is very much an unknown.
Like you say, no political party is saying anything on this with an election coming up.

It may be that carbon taxes are introduced, as Syd points out...we simply don't know!

To make any sort of forecast of relative costs between EV and ICE, you need to know these details.
But that is not enough, because you would also need to know electricity prices in the future. Both utility household prices, and fast charging costs on the road.

With that missing information, alongside future petrol prices, then it might be possible to predict the relative lifetime costs.
Without these details, it is just guesswork.

It would be a massive change from the big running cost advantage that EV currently holds over ICE on today's prices.
Given the policy objective is to decarbonise, the smart money is on this difference increasing over time.

[normal rules]

From apr 2025 all ev will be taxes at a flat rate of £180. At least . And yet a low emission petrol
Car will Still Be £20