The Elephant in the room !

[In the box]

Steve Evans

[In the box]

Michael Duff

[Paul Simpson]

Point is that this manager as with previous managers were given a budget to spend/work with. So as good as a Manager as Grant is or was he is responsible as much as the board for this ongoing Debacle that is yet again unfolding in front of us loyal paying supporters!!

[Colin C No.3]

Steve Evans

Get back in your box you numpty.

[normal rules]

I'm going to repost what I posted some time ago, as it seems some fans are quite happy for this cycle to just keep repeating  itself. At some point we have to stop doing the below. But hey, with some of the fans we've got - who needs opposition support:

- Fans start booing team and manager and vent on message boards.

- Board tell fans they understand their frustration.

- Board sack manager and start a "thorough recruitment process".

- After 12 long weeks, the board sign a manager with limited experience as he "buys into the ethos of Club Doncaster", or sign an also-ran as we have to be realistic as a club about the type of manager we can attract.

- Manager asks the board for help in signing some quality players.

- Manager struggles to attract any decent players due to not being adequately supported by the board with funds, and because quality players don't see playing for Doncaster Rovers as an attractive prospect anymore.

- Manager and team struggle for form.

- Rinse and repeat.

In my opinion we broke the above cycle by convincing Grant to return to the club. He has experience. He has fight. We just need to let him build something. He hasn't even finished half a season with us since his return and some of you are calling for his head. Comparisons to Schofield, McSheffrey and Butler are ridiculous.

Gm agreed with the booing after the Morcambe game.

[normal rules]

Steve Evans

If he comes anywhere near rovers I think many, myself included, would be taking a sabbatical from supporting.

[In the box]

Promise !!

[ncRover]

Michael Duff

Either you’re an utter moron or a rival fan on a wind up mission

Find me an even remotely positive post you’ve done

[Paul Simpson]

Many rude posters on this site!! People/fans are entitled to their opinion!! Merry Christmas

[In the box]

Michael Duff

Either you’re an utter moron or a rival fan on a wind up mission

Find me an even remotely positive post you’ve done

You could say this of virtually every one for a few seasons now .. but we all still pay for our ST every year and offer our opinions .

[Draytonian III]

No better than schofield

Yep it was Mad Friday with comments like that.

[DonnyOsmond]

Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked a couple years ago but eventually he brought in the right players for his team and challenged for the title. Managers need time.

[Campsall rover]

Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked a couple years ago but eventually he brought in the right players for his team and challenged for the title. Managers need time.

Getting rid of GM would be the most stupid thing this club has ever done.

I do think he made a mistake with his formation last night
Senior and Nixon were redundant
They both played so far forward most of the time. Got no service and when they did get the ball were given no room to play. Nixon looked Knackered to be frank.
Molly should have started. He is our best playeer at opening up a defence.
Biggins is running around like a headless chicken and Tommy Rowe is finished. No legs anymore.
I would play him at centre back if he is going to play. His midfield days are gone.

He has to go to a back 4 because the 3 ain’t working. But quite frankly until we get Wood and Faulkner at CB then we are going to ship goals from set pieces.
Anderson and Olowu are both soft touches. They have gone so far backwards in the last 2 yrs it’s scary.

Our midfield has gone without Westbrooke and Close a pair. We looked so disjointed last night. Clueless in fact. They played as if they had only just met each other this week and had never even played a match before.

Faal is also Knackered and needs a rest.

If we had a team of,

Lawlor

Nixon
Faulkner,
Wood,
Maxwell

Close
Bailey,
Westbrooke,

Molyneux

Faal or Miller
Ironside

We would be a far better team than what we are seeing at present.

We need to clear out the rest imo. And add at least 4/5 quality players inc a keeper.
I would keep Senior and Hurst as back up. Hurst has ability. GM has to get him to use it effectively.

[RugbyRover]

Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked a couple years ago but eventually he brought in the right players for his team and challenged for the title. Managers need time.

Getting rid of GM would be the most stupid thing this club has ever done.

I do think he made a mistake with his formation last night
Senior and Nixon were redundant
They both played so far forward most of the time. Got no service and when they did get the ball were given no room to play. Nixon looked Knackered to be frank.
Molly should have started. He is our best playeer at opening up a defence.
Biggins is running around like a headless chicken and Tommy Rowe is finished. No legs anymore.
I would play him at centre back if he is going to play. His midfield days are gone.

He has to go to a back 4 because the 3 ain’t working. But quite frankly until we get Wood and Faulkner at CB then we are going to ship goals from set pieces.
Anderson and Olowu are both soft touches. They have gone so far backwards in the last 2 yrs it’s scary.

Our midfield has gone without Westbrooke and Close a pair. We looked so disjointed last night. Clueless in fact. They played as if they had only just met each other this week and had never even played a match before.

Faal is also Knackered and needs a rest.

If we had a team of,

Lawlor

Jones

Nixon
Faulkner,
Wood,
Maxwell

Close
Bailey,
Westbrooke,

Molyneux

Faal or Miller
Ironside

We would be a far better team than what we are seeing at present.

We need to clear out the rest imo. And add at least 4/5 quality players inc a keeper.
I would keep Senior and Hurst as back up. Hurst has ability. GM has to get him to use it effectively.

Very good post, just one amendment from me

[Donnyjim]

We need one in goal.

[Padge_DRFC]

The big difference is McCann decides who goes as well this summer.

[GazLaz]

We make too many bad decisions as a club. Until we start making more decisions that add value than ones that take value away, we will struggle.

Just to name a few recently-

-Giving Butler and Gary Mc the managers job.
-The head of football restructure shambles.
-The binning of the HoF role.
-The amount of 30yo+ players we sign that add zero to the cause.
-The amount of sentimental contracts we hand out that end up setting fire to money. Taylor, Anderson, Rowe.
-The trap we fall into every January signing awful strikers that end up offering Zero. Agard, Bogle, Lavery.
-Signing players that have never ever proven to be anything other than average (or less than average) L2 players. Sterry, Molyneux, Biggins, Lawlor, Miller.
-Signing players that become surplus to requirements a few weeks into the season due to changing the system. Roberts, Sotona.
-Too many players signed that are unproven at the level with no history of being able to identify this profile of player well. Bailey, Marsh, Roberts, Faal, Broadbent, Senior, Nixon. Some have been ok admittedly but too many question marks there.

It’s easy to say “hindsight has 20/20 etc” but these were things I highlighted at the start of the season (and last season) and it’s all playing out in a way that’s certainly not positive.

We have zero concept of risk when managing the club, controlling operations and assessing signings.

To improve any business, venture or situation you need to make more positive expected value decisions than negative expected value decisions. These small value additions then compound. We are doing the reverse, compounding the negative ones.

It’s not even a case of making more better decisions at the minute, we have to start making less bad ones first of all. Will TB replacing DB as chairman improve this? Potentially as I’m sure Gavin will get a bit more influence on the sporting side and I think he’s got a better instinct than DB had regarding the big decisions.

[Filo]

We make too many bad decisions as a club. Until we start making more decisions that add value than ones that take value away, we will struggle.

Just to name a few recently-

-Giving Butler and Gary Mc the managers job.
-The head of football restructure shambles.
-The binning of the HoF role.
-The amount of 30yo+ players we sign that add zero to the cause.
-The amount of sentimental contracts we hand out that end up setting fire to money. Taylor, Anderson, Rowe.
-The trap we fall into every January signing awful strikers that end up offering Zero. Agard, Bogle, Lavery.
-Signing players that have never ever proven to be anything other than average (or less than average) L2 players. Sterry, Molyneux, Biggins, Lawlor, Miller.
-Signing players that become surplus to requirements a few weeks into the season due to changing the system. Roberts, Sotona.
-Too many players signed that are unproven at the level with no history of being able to identify this profile of player well. Bailey, Marsh, Roberts, Faal, Broadbent, Senior, Nixon. Some have been ok admittedly but too many question marks there.

It’s easy to say “hindsight has 20/20 etc” but these were things I highlighted at the start of the season (and last season) and it’s all playing out in a way that’s certainly not positive.

We have zero concept of risk when managing the club, controlling operations and assessing signings.

To improve any business, venture or situation you need to make more positive expected value decisions than negative expected value decisions. These small value additions then compound. We are doing the reverse, compounding the negative ones.

It’s not even a case of making more better decisions at the minute, we have to start making less bad ones first of all. Will TB replacing DB as chairman improve this? Potentially as I’m sure Gavin will get a bit more influence on the sporting side and I think he’s got a better instinct than DB had regarding the big decisions.

I’ve said it before DB ran a business, not a Football Club, great for a business like Keepmoat, awful for a football club

[Upton Rover]

Shocking standard of players who don’t deserve to wear the shirt, I would have all these so called professionals training all over Christmas

[roversdude]

It sounds like Grant is already on the same page as you with the profiling also agree with the statement about GB as he was instrumental in bringing Grant back. Wonder if some of the preseason signings were already signed before GM came in

[Padge_DRFC]

It sounds like Grant is already on the same page as you with the profiling also agree with the statement about GB as he was instrumental in bringing Grant back. Wonder if some of the preseason signings were already signed before GM came in

For sure a couple. No way McCann signed Wood.

All the contracts were given out too before he came from memory

[mushRTID]

It sounds like Grant is already on the same page as you with the profiling also agree with the statement about GB as he was instrumental in bringing Grant back. Wonder if some of the preseason signings were already signed before GM came in

For sure a couple. No way McCann signed Wood.

All the contracts were given out too before he came from memory

There were rumours Wood was coming before McCann. I think I started a thread on it in the rumour mill that Wood had told someone at the Rotherham end of season awards.

[Chris Black come back]

We make too many bad decisions as a club. Until we start making more decisions that add value than ones that take value away, we will struggle.

Just to name a few recently-

-Giving Butler and Gary Mc the managers job.
-The head of football restructure shambles.
-The binning of the HoF role.
-The amount of 30yo+ players we sign that add zero to the cause.
-The amount of sentimental contracts we hand out that end up setting fire to money. Taylor, Anderson, Rowe.
-The trap we fall into every January signing awful strikers that end up offering Zero. Agard, Bogle, Lavery.
-Signing players that have never ever proven to be anything other than average (or less than average) L2 players. Sterry, Molyneux, Biggins, Lawlor, Miller.
-Signing players that become surplus to requirements a few weeks into the season due to changing the system. Roberts, Sotona.
-Too many players signed that are unproven at the level with no history of being able to identify this profile of player well. Bailey, Marsh, Roberts, Faal, Broadbent, Senior, Nixon. Some have been ok admittedly but too many question marks there.

It’s easy to say “hindsight has 20/20 etc” but these were things I highlighted at the start of the season (and last season) and it’s all playing out in a way that’s certainly not positive.

We have zero concept of risk when managing the club, controlling operations and assessing signings.

To improve any business, venture or situation you need to make more positive expected value decisions than negative expected value decisions. These small value additions then compound. We are doing the reverse, compounding the negative ones.

It’s not even a case of making more better decisions at the minute, we have to start making less bad ones first of all. Will TB replacing DB as chairman improve this? Potentially as I’m sure Gavin will get a bit more influence on the sporting side and I think he’s got a better instinct than DB had regarding the big decisions.

I’ve said it before DB ran a business, not a Football Club, great for a business like Keepmoat, awful for a football club

Recent games have been horrific. Games before that we have been doing well. Definitely some improvement this season.

But if you step back and take a deep breath, we have been going backwards as a club at an alarming rate the last 3 seasons at least. Rarely have we consistently played well, we have cycled through managers, made diabolical signing after diabolical signing, none of which have we managed to monetise ultimately and indeed in Watters and May managed to somehow give away for free players that were sold by lesser clubs than us for big fees, got relegated, seen attendances dwindle to an embarrassing level, and ultimately find ourselves in the bottom 6 of the 92.

This is in spite of having stable ownership with a more than adequate budget to compete in this level, excellent infrastructure, support despite thinning out still way more than most of this league, and a top manager for this level.

Anyone care to figure? It's a disaster zone.

[Campsall rover]

We all wanted a HoF didn’t we
Well we got one and unfortunately it backfired
Copps simply recruited players who were lightweight. Players who will not get a team out of this league.

Ever since I have been watching League 2 football the promoted teams  have a spine of the team that has been very physical. I don’t mean dirty players. Just players who can handle themselves, don’t get bullied and have a winning mentality.
Every successful team has a proper leader in the team. Preferably 2/3 of them.
The only one we have is Richard Wood and he has hardly played.

The only players we have right now who are winners, players with a winning mentality are Nixon ( who is on loan ) Faulkner, Bailey & Ironside.

Tommy Rowe has gone, he is just going through the motions. His heart isn’t in it anymore. That’s how it looks.
Anderson has one good game in 4, the other 3 he is way off where he needs to be as a centre back. He is not a leader. Far too quiet on the pitch.
Olowu has gone alarmingly backwards in his development.
His confidence is shattered it looks to me.
Sterry and Senior are not physically strong enough although i would keep Senior as a back up full back.
Biggins I don’t know what to say but he looks lost at present.
Broadbent simply not good enough at this level.
Hurst needs to step up and show what he has and use his undoubted ability.
Faal has potential. He has been overplayed due to injury to Miller & Lavery & Goodman is not quite up to a regular starting place.

Molyneux needs to be given an attacking role behind the strikers or play on either wing. He is NOT a wing back.
He is potentially our match winning player but needs believe in himself and be more ruthless in the final 3rd.

Close and Westbrooke both good footballers but need someone to do the nasty stuff along side them. A proper mister which we are lacking.

The injury situation is not helping obviously but there simply is not enough leadership, physicality or pace in our current squad.

Major surgery required from GM in the next 2 windows.
First of all we need to get some points on the board. I think 40/42 will keep us up as thankfully the bottom 2 are very poor teams.
If we get complacent though we could do a Fergie and get relegated.
That would be an unmitigated disaster & one we might not recover from.

Alarm bells ringing. We need to batten down the hatches and show some real fight and desire to address this slump.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Yes, going through the same cycle then sacking the manager is not the answer.

Most sensible fans would say it will take two or three windows to change things around, yet here we are again, some are questioning McCanns position after only one window.

He has to have the chance to weedle those contracted players out that are the legacy of the losing cycle and are very much at the end of their sell by dates. Anderson, Olowu, Rowe, Taylor, I think it's fair to say aren't the future of this club. Yes, there are others inc Wood, Biggins, to add to that list but, there has to be a transition. We can't keep pulling the plug in the middle of that transition.

For richer for poorer, for better or worse, we must allow McCann to see through this transition. Minimum two more windows I think. 

Folk will try to blame summat or someone but it would be harsh to blame Copps or McCann for recruiting the players mentioned above. Of course we can question the merit of Lawlor and Wood. I can see the logic of Wood as a short term risk but Lawlor for me was a symbol of the very cycle we're trying to break.

The others Senior, Sterry, Bailey, Nixon, Broadbent, Ironside, Faal, Westbrooke, Maxwell etc are all players that have added value to different degrees and who are more likely to be able to see us through the remainder of the season and the transition ahead. These were not bad signings and we need more of them.

[dickos1]

We make too many bad decisions as a club. Until we start making more decisions that add value than ones that take value away, we will struggle.

Just to name a few recently-

-Giving Butler and Gary Mc the managers job.
-The head of football restructure shambles.
-The binning of the HoF role.
-The amount of 30yo+ players we sign that add zero to the cause.
-The amount of sentimental contracts we hand out that end up setting fire to money. Taylor, Anderson, Rowe.
-The trap we fall into every January signing awful strikers that end up offering Zero. Agard, Bogle, Lavery.
-Signing players that have never ever proven to be anything other than average (or less than average) L2 players. Sterry, Molyneux, Biggins, Lawlor, Miller.
-Signing players that become surplus to requirements a few weeks into the season due to changing the system. Roberts, Sotona.
-Too many players signed that are unproven at the level with no history of being able to identify this profile of player well. Bailey, Marsh, Roberts, Faal, Broadbent, Senior, Nixon. Some have been ok admittedly but too many question marks there.

It’s easy to say “hindsight has 20/20 etc” but these were things I highlighted at the start of the season (and last season) and it’s all playing out in a way that’s certainly not positive.

We have zero concept of risk when managing the club, controlling operations and assessing signings.

To improve any business, venture or situation you need to make more positive expected value decisions than negative expected value decisions. These small value additions then compound. We are doing the reverse, compounding the negative ones.

It’s not even a case of making more better decisions at the minute, we have to start making less bad ones first of all. Will TB replacing DB as chairman improve this? Potentially as I’m sure Gavin will get a bit more influence on the sporting side and I think he’s got a better instinct than DB had regarding the big decisions.

I agree with most of this, although I do think molyneux is a very good player for this level. Some games he’s been unplayable, and he’s only 25.
The season he had with Hartlepool I think he proved he was above average for this level.
He’s been much better this season for us in my opinion

[Draytonian III]

We all wanted a HoF didn’t we
Well we got one and unfortunately it backfired
Copps simply recruited players who were lightweight. Players who will not get a team out of this league.

Ever since I have been watching League 2 football the promoted teams  have a spine of the team that has been very physical. I don’t mean dirty players. Just players who can handle themselves, don’t get bullied and have a winning mentality.
Every successful team has a proper leader in the team. Preferably 2/3 of them.
The only one we have is Richard Wood and he has hardly played.

The only players we have right now who are winners, players with a winning mentality are Nixon ( who is on loan ) Faulkner, Bailey & Ironside.

Tommy Rowe has gone, he is just going through the motions. His heart isn’t in it anymore. That’s how it looks.
Anderson has one good game in 4, the other 3 he is way off where he needs to be as a centre back. He is not a leader. Far too quiet on the pitch.
Olowu has gone alarmingly backwards in his development.
His confidence is shattered it looks to me.
Sterry and Senior are not physically strong enough although i would keep Senior as a back up full back.
Biggins I don’t know what to say but he looks lost at present.
Broadbent simply not good enough at this level.
Hurst needs to step up and show what he has and use his undoubted ability.
Faal has potential. He has been overplayed due to injury to Miller & Lavery & Goodman is not quite up to a regular starting place.

Molyneux needs to be given an attacking role behind the strikers or play on either wing. He is NOT a wing back.
He is potentially our match winning player but needs believe in himself and be more ruthless in the final 3rd.

Close and Westbrooke both good footballers but need someone to do the nasty stuff along side them. A proper mister which we are lacking.

The injury situation is not helping obviously but there simply is not enough leadership, physicality or pace in our current squad.

Major surgery required from GM in the next 2 windows.
First of all we need to get some points on the board. I think 40/42 will keep us up as thankfully the bottom 2 are very poor teams.
If we get complacent though we could do a Fergie and get relegated.
That would be an unmitigated disaster & one we might not recover from.

Alarm bells ringing. We need to batten down the hatches and show some real fight and desire to address this slump.


A lot of what you might be true but I very much doubt that Tommy Rowe’s heart isn’t it, admittedly he’s not the player he was but he still looks dedicated to the cause

[roversdude]

We all wanted a HoF didn’t we
Well we got one and unfortunately it backfired
Copps simply recruited players who were lightweight. Players who will not get a team out of this league.

Ever since I have been watching League 2 football the promoted teams  have a spine of the team that has been very physical. I don’t mean dirty players. Just players who can handle themselves, don’t get bullied and have a winning mentality.
Every successful team has a proper leader in the team. Preferably 2/3 of them.
The only one we have is Richard Wood and he has hardly played.

The only players we have right now who are winners, players with a winning mentality are Nixon ( who is on loan ) Faulkner, Bailey & Ironside.

Tommy Rowe has gone, he is just going through the motions. His heart isn’t in it anymore. That’s how it looks.
Anderson has one good game in 4, the other 3 he is way off where he needs to be as a centre back. He is not a leader. Far too quiet on the pitch.
Olowu has gone alarmingly backwards in his development.
His confidence is shattered it looks to me.
Sterry and Senior are not physically strong enough although i would keep Senior as a back up full back.
Biggins I don’t know what to say but he looks lost at present.
Broadbent simply not good enough at this level.
Hurst needs to step up and show what he has and use his undoubted ability.
Faal has potential. He has been overplayed due to injury to Miller & Lavery & Goodman is not quite up to a regular starting place.

Molyneux needs to be given an attacking role behind the strikers or play on either wing. He is NOT a wing back.
He is potentially our match winning player but needs believe in himself and be more ruthless in the final 3rd.

Close and Westbrooke both good footballers but need someone to do the nasty stuff along side them. A proper mister which we are lacking.

The injury situation is not helping obviously but there simply is not enough leadership, physicality or pace in our current squad.

Major surgery required from GM in the next 2 windows.
First of all we need to get some points on the board. I think 40/42 will keep us up as thankfully the bottom 2 are very poor teams.
If we get complacent though we could do a Fergie and get relegated.
That would be an unmitigated disaster & one we might not recover from.

Alarm bells ringing. We need to batten down the hatches and show some real fight and desire to address this slump.

Could I add to that Camps in that all our recruits had the same agent (same as Schofield if I recall) so it may have been mr agent turning up with his catalogue and saying who do you fancy from this lot

[Arsenal Of The North]

It's not McCann's fault. We were improving until the injuries hit again.  There is still the problem that we have players who cannot perform at this level.

Yet again players who've been rubbish for 1-2 years continue to be rubbish.  Biggins didn't find a pass again all night, oluwu does a lot of good things but continually switches off.  Rowe has offered nothing all season, Faal looks like he needs a few weeks off but we've no option to replace him.

Then again molyneux a good bit of play then he gives a throw in straight to them to score.  You can't blame the manager for that.

The route out of this is investment in the playing squad behind McCann, there's no better option.

But I'm fed up of watching us lose to shite teams, yet again tonight a rubbish team beats us. They barely strung a pass together. Woeful.

Here here. Exactly how I feel, currently there is no one better than GMC to take us forward, we know this is going to be a long rebuild, simply there are players at the club who aren’t up to it anymore. We need to move a large number on and improve that going forward.

Under blunt I think it’s clear how things were run had a massive impact on the player recruitment, we have gone for young unproven players because it was cheaper and filled out the squad.

Going forward hopefully under the leadership of TB we will start to improve on better more physical players

[keith79]

Anyone who rate’s Schofield as a manager knows sweet FA about football…..end of.

As with Dickov before him, I bet he never managers another EFL team.

I don't think anyone rated schofield.