Meet the owners

[Sammy Chung was King]

The managers appointed wasted what little budget we did have. The board tried to give young managers a chance that were not upto the job. Many of us knew before they started it wasn’t going to work out. The club at that time didn’t want to pay for an established, experienced manager, they paid the price for going cheap. This time they have got an established manager, with past success on his record and still it isn’t working. Do we get rid of him and start again? No it wouldn’t solve the problem, it would make it worse.

The way things are done need an overhaul. I say this without knowing the ins and outs of every nuck and cranny of the club.
The results on the pitch have been abysmal. The communication of the club with its supporters has been at best amateurish.
There is so much potential at the club, but it isn’t being run right.
There needs to be a thinner chain of command. When we bring players in it can’t always be bigger clubs youth team players. We need dependable, consistent players along with promising ones.

The scouting needs to be done the old fashioned way. Finding out personalities of the players, injury records. What type of guy is he? Does he fit into the position and will he suit the side the manager is trying to build. I suspect clubs are relying too much on these stupid sheets made up by half heads on a computer. He’s expected to score this many goals. He runs so many miles etc.
No good running ten miles if you don’t do anything at the end of it.

We need intelligent , strong minded players that can be compatible with what is around them. If we can’t get the right players then you wait until you get someone who is right. Work on the players you already have on the training field. We have a few good individuals but no team. The manager has to work on making them a team. Confidence I would suggest is fairly low at the minute. It’s quite fragile, if something goes wrong, we don’t have the mentality to change it.

The size of squad we have is a massive hindrance. Due to injuries and poor signing of players, we are top heavy with players.
A lot of these players won’t interest other clubs, we will either have to pay them off or pay them until the contract runs out.
Short term we need to start doing things right from here on in. If it means getting some of those players not needed out on loan then that’s what needs to be done. The manager eventually needs a strong competitive squad of around 20-22 players to work with.
To do that you must recruit players that will be fit for the majority of games.

The injuries are stopping any consistency. No team patterns are being able to be worked on properly. This leads to mistakes being made, poor goals going in and that final pass before a shot on goal, going astray because the players haven’t developed that sixth sense of where their team mate is going to move to.
Bringing in youth players one after the other isn’t helping to gather any consistency. Young players are learning their game, they could be brilliant one week, then next game disappear. A more experienced player gives you the reliability of knowing what you get. The mix in the side isn’t right.

We still haven’t got a regular partnership at the back. Promotion teams tend to have that. Apart from The Ironside/Faal partnership we are lacking that. We need a goalkeeper that commands his area and back four. We need a dominant pairing at the back. Intelligent full backs that know when to push up and when to defend. A midfield that commands a game but also provides for the forwards. We are quite a way from getting it right. With this manager in charge that is worrying, I had high hopes for him.

[steve@dcfd]

In 2003/2004 we won promotion from league 2 the side we had then was built on a team that won promotion from the conference.
In 2016/ 2017 we again won promotion having been relegated the previous season but the squad we had then was far better than we have now.
Both those sides would be more competitive in this league than the squad we have now.

[Sammy Chung was King]

They knew each others strengths and weaknesses. We’ve had more talented individuals than some of those players, but we haven’t had better teams. Thought and hard work went into those promotion teams. Standards were set and kept.

[selby]

  It looks plain to me that the emphasis is on next season now, we have a , young side, and it looks like it is going to get younger.
  The sound bites were there with win a cup and not giving up on the playoffs and we need that ambition despite them being unlikely.
   I like that and feel as a club it is the way we need to go, and yes another thing that came out last night was the fact that more emphasis will be put into recruitment, as lots of clubs have, not even with our budget and recourses, Harrogate and Barrow two good examples, have left us behind in that department, why is a big question, and something challenged by McSheffrey which didn't hold him in good stead with those at the head in power
 during his tenure.
   We need to cast a wider net, with the non league and u21s leagues covered as well as established players at other clubs we think could fit in here., as I think we have tried to recruit from a too narrow base and have wanted ready made players who may have  weaknesses  in their play or nit fit our style of play and have been recruited because of their name and reputation, some coming from teams like Manchester United who have been way off it but carry that certain attraction in the name, and have an advantage over players from lesser sides who are better players.
  Our aim must be to stay out of trouble this season, and build up the club, it should be an exciting time for us the supporters and for the management and can only enhance their reputation if successful, I look forward to it.
  I agree dcfd by the way that those squads would be better than the present one but would have very little sell on benefit as they would be getting on a bit in age now.

[Sammy Chung was King]

We need to get the players from non league before they get to the bigger sides and give them time to develop. While doing that sign players that are ready to do it now.

[pib]

Last time we were in this league we had players like Marquis, Rowe, Butler, Williams, Copps, Houghton, and Baudry who were probably in the top handful of players in their roles in the league. Plus the likes of Blair, Mason, Marosi, Wright, Grant and Mandeville who all contributed a significant amount to the team.

How many of the squad can we say that for now? Players in the top few in their positions in the division - can't be many if any? Players making a significant impact consistently (being available is obviously part of that) - Moly, Bailey, Ironside? Maybe Close?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Up to the point we were competing at the top end of League One under McCann and then Moore, before the curtailed season due to Covid, the 'budget' can't have been that bad. We then sadly lost Dick Watson which must have been a big hole to fill. Now, we were led to believe (I had no reason to doubt) Club Doncaster was contributing to some of that shortfall however, through lockdown  that income was badly effected too. It's through this period and coming out of covid that we don't seem to have recovered well.

Of course we can and have debated to merit of recruitment post covid but, we can't also get away from big chunks of the budget being unavailable on the injured list. Anderson, Close, Cameron John, Fejiri, Jon Taylor to name but few all affected the ability of Wellens, McSheffrey and Schofield to put a consistent team out on the pitch. Yes, this led to too many short term gambles including young loan players who had to shoulder too much responsibility.

I still can't fathom how we can be sure what a 'top x' budget actially means and how that compares to other clubs. Clubs with higher than average wage structures won't see money go as far, although you'd expect better quality. But that's a balance every club is striving for and clearly, we haven't been able to get that balance right. Plus, things had clearly moved on financially post covid and despite Club Doncaster contributing again, there was a realisation it wasn't enough as other clubs were fairing much better relatively. 

The murmurings of the penny dropping came earlier this year with TB stepping in. The courting of Grant McCann was the start of that prior to Schofields inevitable demise.

While we go through this restructuring we need to draw a line with the club being reminded of things reputedly said in the past re 5 year plans, top whatever budgets, consolodation seasons blah, blah, as it means bugger all.

Yes, let's continue to question recruitment and what we can see on the pitch as a result. That's the acid tests.

I think would all agree, the spine of the team is where we need the investment on quality.

[roversdude]

Felt slightly embarrassed when the guy asked last night why we aren’t signing players such as Sully and Stock

Doesn't this say more about you than whoever asked the question?

When Stock signed he was a decent League 1 player, very well known to the manager. As for Sullivan, it doesn't really need saying but he was also from a fellow League 1 team - and had a very high calibre having had a decent Premier League career.

Where are the proven signings this time? Joe Ironside.. any others? We're a team of unproven lower league and non-league players. With two more youngsters recently added.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the quickest way out of League Two is to assemble a team of experienced League One/Two physical grafters with a few promising youngsters. But then the 14th best budget in the League will rarely stretch to that...

I keep reading that this is a tough league etc etc. It's really not. It's a crap league with crap direct physical football. I haven't been impressed with one League Two side we've played against since we dropped down. How we still can't compete after nearly 18 months at this level is laughable.

So you are saying we have no proven League One Players
Richard Wood - proven at Championship/League One
Tommy Rowe as above
Ben Close proven at League One
Jon Taylor proven at League One
Zain Westbrooke proven at League One
Tom Anderson proven at League One
Joe Ironside proven at League One

[roversdude]

We need to get the players from non league before they get to the bigger sides and give them time to develop. While doing that sign players that are ready to do it now.

Sammy I love your posts but recently you totally contradict yourself either in the same post or further down

[selby]

  Kings Lynn have just sold a 22 yr old non league central defender player to Southend for a reported £35,000 fee plus add ons.
  We had a 18yr old central defender winning MOM awards at EFL level last season, and all we have done is undermine his value ever since.
  While Peterborough have slapped £5 million on a player who didn't look all that against us in the cup this season, in fact on the day they got away with it, but they market young players the right way and we never have, getting way below their value time after time.

[McCammon egg n chips]

So you are saying we have no proven League One Players
Richard Wood - proven at Championship/League One
Tommy Rowe as above
Ben Close proven at League One
Jon Taylor proven at League One
Zain Westbrooke proven at League One
Tom Anderson proven at League One
Joe Ironside proven at League One

I mean I'm not saying that - lovely straw man you've created there. I think you're just trying to score points rather than engaging with the actual thrust of debate here. Which was that we aren't signing proven players.

So rather than analyse your motley crew of injury table layouts and ageing pros let's see what percentage of signings this season could be classed as "proven" at L1/L2 level.

Ironside - Proven
Wood - Proven
Lawlor - questionable
Sterry - questionable
McGrath - no
Senior - no
Bailey - no
Broadbent - no
Carty - no
Nixon - no
Faal - no
Roberts - no
Marsh - no
Sotona - no

So I'd have it as 2 out of 14 - being proven. If we give you Lawlor and Sterry, that's still just 4 out of 14. Not even a third of our signings this season have been proven players. It's not even arguable.

[roversdude]

Why is it point scoring please, you stated we are a team of unproven and lower league players, I offered a counter argument based on fact not opinions.
For what it’s worth I agree that we need more “battlers”
I’ve total faith in McCann to get this right, although like everyone else I’d have loved it to happen this season.
The main difference between the players I quoted and our historical players is that under SOD we didn’t seem to have most of the squad injured - hopefully the change in recruitment addresses this

[GazLaz]

  Kings Lynn have just sold a 22 yr old non league central defender player to Southend for a reported £35,000 fee plus add ons.
  We had a 18yr old central defender winning MOM awards at EFL level last season, and all we have done is undermine his value ever since.
  While Peterborough have slapped £5 million on a player who didn't look all that against us in the cup this season, in fact on the day they got away with it, but they market young players the right way and we never have, getting way below their value time after time.

The way we are handling Faulkner is poor IMO.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

  Kings Lynn have just sold a 22 yr old non league central defender player to Southend for a reported £35,000 fee plus add ons.
  We had a 18yr old central defender winning MOM awards at EFL level last season, and all we have done is undermine his value ever since.
  While Peterborough have slapped £5 million on a player who didn't look all that against us in the cup this season, in fact on the day they got away with it, but they market young players the right way and we never have, getting way below their value time after time.

The way we are handling Faulkner is poor IMO.

How else can we handle him when he's been out injured for the most part?

I assume this Peterborough lad is well known to McCann then? Are you saying McCann isn't capable of recognising and encouraging young talent?

[bpoolrover]

He needs to either play or go on loan at a higher level than previous, at the moment he is just getting no game time

[steve@dcfd]

  Kings Lynn have just sold a 22 yr old non league central defender player to Southend for a reported £35,000 fee plus add ons.
  We had a 18yr old central defender winning MOM awards at EFL level last season, and all we have done is undermine his value ever since.
  While Peterborough have slapped £5 million on a player who didn't look all that against us in the cup this season, in fact on the day they got away with it, but they market young players the right way and we never have, getting way below their value time after time.

Edwards has played 86 games in League one and Champship he’s represented England at U19 and U20 level. Whether he’s worth £5m then that’s down to the buying club.
Bobby is a year younger than him down injury and manager’s selection he’s hardly played first team football there is no comparison. If given his chance to play then he will be able to show if he can produce performances consistently that some people believe he can. I hope we can see him do that.

[Nudga]

Should partner faulkner and McGrath in the next game, we've tried the other combinations

[Sammy Chung was King]

We need to get the players from non league before they get to the bigger sides and give them time to develop. While doing that sign players that are ready to do it now.

Sammy I love your posts but recently you totally contradict yourself either in the same post or further down

No what I’m saying is sign players for the here and now, but have potential players from non league around the squad, learning the job, and give them time, don’t expect too much too soon.

[ForsolongaRover]

  Kings Lynn have just sold a 22 yr old non league central defender player to Southend for a reported £35,000 fee plus add ons.
  We had a 18yr old central defender winning MOM awards at EFL level last season, and all we have done is undermine his value ever since.
  While Peterborough have slapped £5 million on a player who didn't look all that against us in the cup this season, in fact on the day they got away with it, but they market young players the right way and we never have, getting way below their value time after time.

The way we are handling Faulkner is poor IMO.

I’m not convinced that he’s not being deliberately ignored. Flint, Kuleya, Goodman, Straughan-Brown have all had more non time on the pitch and none of them has recently or previously made anything like as significant a contribution, nor looked as comfortable as Faulkner. He seems to be the very embodiment, the persistent illustration of poor use of player resources. And his agent would be well advised to find him another club for his own sake; Rovers don’t deserve him. Someone else with real potential who is missed and whose injuries have hampered him enormously is Maxwell.

I don’t suppose there was time at the meeting to challenge the seemingly poor record on recovery from injuries. They keep appointing new staff on that side of the operation, but is there evidence of improvement?

It sounds as though anyone coming away from the meeting not feeling “negative” might be out of touch with reality. Faith in the Chairman is the only real positive. The rest of the management which would include Baldwin, who seems to have stood and watched, really has a major task ahead. No doubt SM would defend him, but it sounds as though the club have not been really open with either the VSC or the Shadow Board. It’s difficult to know how as a club we can be so regaled with off-the-field awards yet fail to be upfront with the fans.

[drfc1951]

Would you rush back him into the team after a long injury layoff

[ravenrover]

Lets face it Selby it wasn't hard last season to only put in a half decent performance to win MoM. There wasn't much competition!

[drfc1951]

If i was TB i would think twice about putting more of my money into the club, after reading some of the comments on here.

[ForsolongaRover]

Would you rush back him into the team after a long injury layoff

If he is on the bench he should be fit to play. I think there were others on the bench who were back from injuries and there have been instances of players removed from the subs bench because they are not match fit. I’m afraid that evidence points towards discrimination towards Faulkner. 

[Spilsby Red]

That’s a very strong statement and a big accusation. No one apart from the manager and coaching staff maybe know why he isn’t being played

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Would you rush back him into the team after a long injury layoff

If he is on the bench he should be fit to play. I think there were others on the bench who were back from injuries and there have been instances of players removed from the subs bench because they are not match fit. I’m afraid that evidence points towards discrimination towards Faulkner. 

Wow. Strong words indeed. Didn't you listen to McCanns recent post match interview when he explained why he was reluctant to put Faulkener on the pitch following his return from injury?

How many people were calling for a change to the back line after the draw at Mansfield and win v MK? Not many.

Was there opportunity to bring him on v Harrogate? Maybe, but that's just one game. 

[steve@dcfd]

Quote
I don’t suppose there was time at the meeting to challenge the seemingly poor record on recovery from injuries. They keep appointing new staff on that side of the operation, but is there evidence of improvement?

Grant was questioned about injuries he said quite a few trauma injuries also the new man is looking into the problem with so many injuries but it will take time but we should be seeing improvement within 6 months.
When Terry was talking about injured players and money we paying he also said we’ve had pay more in medical fees.
But if take Miller Lavery and Taylor they’ve all had to have more than one operation 2/3 all before Grant and physio medical and staff came to the club.
Faulkner injury was a recurring injury I believe from the problem he had last season. Now he’s fit and then Grant will decide when he’s ready to be selected

[knockers]

The physio before this new one looked like one of the most unfit men I’ve ever seen.

Surely when interviewing someone for this kind of position the minimum should be that they look after themselves

[scawsby steve]

If i was TB i would think twice about putting more of my money into the club, after reading some of the comments on here.

What on Earth makes you think that Terry reads this forum?

If you read the threads carefully, most people are blaming Blunt for our demise, and rightly so.

[silent majority]

I've mentioned this before on the subject of specialists and treatment for injured players, and that's the scheme that all football clubs belong to.

Of the 92 clubs that make up the EPL and EFL 91 of them all pay into, and belong to, a scheme that has appointed specialists of all types and medical professionals. The one exception to that is Manchester Utd who apparently do their own thing.

Of course clubs have sole control of the staff that they employ.

[turnbull for england]

The physio before this new one looked like one of the most unfit men I’ve ever seen.

Surely when interviewing someone for this kind of position the minimum should be that they look after themselves

Eric braislford was a cracking physio