Moscow Terrorist Attack

[tyke1962]

Wow , this really isn't good at all .


Moscow concert hall shooting: dozens killed and roof collapsing as fire rips through venue – latest updates https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/mar/22/moscow-concert-attack-crocus-city-hall-shooting-russia-live-updates?CMP=share_btn_url

[Filo]

My bet is a false flag, apparently it took the emergency services an hour to arrive on scene, enough time for the FSB operatives to make their escape

[River Don]

The Russian authorities have instantly urged the international community to condemn the attack.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

As they bloody should, it's a horrible terrorist attack.

Anyone in the world should be able to enjoy a gig, as I did in Sheffield last night without fear.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As they bloody should, it's a horrible terrorist attack.

Anyone in the world should be able to enjoy a gig, as I did in Sheffield last night without fear.

WAY too early to say what's happened. The FSB has a long history of killing its own people in false flag operations.

And even if it IS Ukrainian action, Ukrainians have a right to sleep in their beds without 150 missiles and drones being lobbed at them last night.

[River Don]

There is no denying Ukraine has really suffered but somehow I can't see the leadership sanctioning a terror attack on civilians.

That's not to say some other Ukrainian group might be taking matters into their own hands.

I'd say it's far too early to say anything about it.

[Filo]

US intelligence warned of such attack two weeks ago

[Nudga]

My bet is a false flag, apparently it took the emergency services an hour to arrive on scene, enough time for the FSB operatives to make their escape

I smell bullshit. A van with Ukrainian number plates has been found in a, nearby car park and then two security personnel have supposedly captured one of the suspected terrorists and frog marched him in full view without any cuffs or cable ties around his wrists.

Also, I've never seen sparks coming out of a gun before and people surviving multiple rounds being shot at them at point blank range.

[River Don]

Ukraine military intelligence services are already saying it's an expected false flag to justify expanding the war (Russia has already started using the word war yesterday) and as a means to justify a new round of civilian mobilisation.

[SydneyRover]

the Guardian

''Islamic State claims responsibility for attack on concert hall
Islamic State have claimed responsibility on its Telegram channel for the attacks at the Crocus City Hall near Moscow, Reuters is reporting.''

[River Don]

It seems IS is claiming responsibility. That gives Putin a headache, he won't be wanting to commit the military to Syria or Afghanistan or Chechnya or wherever this terror group is operating from.

Edit: seems to be ISIS-K who operate primarily out of Afghanistan.

[SydneyRover]

Not sure I've heard of isis-k before RD.

''CNN’s chief national security correspondent writes that sources have revealed that there may have been specific intelligence indicating an imminent attack.

Alex Marquardt

''Since November there has been "fairly specific" intelligence that ISIS-K wanted to carry out attacks in Russia, sources tell me,

US intelligence warned Russia about it. Unclear if that drove the Mar 7 embassy warning''

Isis-K refers to the Islamic State of Khorasan Province, active in South-Central Asia.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Strange that it took a long time for security services to turn up.

As I've just heard a Russian Citizen say "If I'd stood outside holding a blank piece of A4 paper, how long would I have lasted before being tackled?"

This is another horrific terrorist attack on ordinary people but is it a case of the regime being more concerned about protecting itself rather than it's people?

[River Don]

I haven't heard of ISIS-K before. Apparently despite being in Afghanistan and Pakistan they don't have a good relationship with the Taliban.

It seems they specifically wanted to target Christians.

That said they have been linked to an attack on a Moscow Synagogue too.

[SydneyRover]

''Russian President Vladimir Putin dismissed Western warnings about possible terrorist attacks in Russia as "blackmail" days before a mass shooting at a Moscow concert venue claimed at least 40 lives and injured over 100 people, according to Russian media.

Several gunmen opened fire at the Crocus City Hall in Krasnogorsk, northwest of Moscow, on the evening of March 22, killing and injuring dozens of people.

Ahead of the attack, the U.S. Embassy in Russia issued a warning on March 7 that "extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow" and urged American citizens to stay away from crowded areas and venues over the next 48 hours.  The U.K., Canada, Germany, and several other countries published similar statements soon after.

Putin dismissed these warnings as a Western provocation, the Russian state-controlled news outlet TASS reported on March 19.

"All of this resembles outright blackmail and an intention to intimidate and destabilize our society," Putin reportedly said at a Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) board meeting''

https://kyivindependent.com/comments-show-putin-dismissed-western-warnings-of-moscow-attack-as-blackmail/

[Filo]

FSB still trying to spin a Ukraine connection even though ISIS have claimed responsibility

[TonySoprano]

To be fair isis have before claimed responsibility for attacks they didn't carry out

[Colin C No.3]

To be fair isis have before claimed responsibility for attacks they didn't carry out

It’s definitely not Ukraine involvement however, Putin would love it to be & no doubt if he can spin it their way he will….despite knowing the real perpetrators.

Days after lauding his coming election ‘victory’, he’s chosen to ignore warnings of an imminent terrorist attack in a crowded venue in Moscow because the warnings came from western state security services. Too proud to heed such warnings because his own security forces hadn’t a clue, he’s put 100’s of Russian civilian lives at risk (in this case a count of over 100 dead & many more injured) right in the heart of the Russian capital.

Any other world leader (bar China & North Korea) would be castigated for such dereliction of duty as its country’s ’democratically elected leader’ & hounded out of office.

The last thing Putin needs now is to have to delegate forces & agencies to ‘chase down’ & bring the ‘true culprits’ to justice.

We can all guess how this one will be played out.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The more the FSB push to frame Ukranian involvement, the more I smell a red flag!

[River Don]

I don't think it's a false flag. I just think Putin can't resist the opportunity to pin the blame on Ukraine and up the ante.

[ncRover]

To be fair isis have before claimed responsibility for attacks they didn't carry out

This is true. Wait and see on this one.

[River Don]

Apparently Islamic state have released photos of the attackers.

Perhaps getting a bit frustrated? No, it really was us!

[BillyStubbsTears]

So Putin can't say they were Ukrainian attackers, because IS has claimed it.

But he's saying they planned to escape into Ukraine.

Let's get that right. The most wanted men in Russia were going to escape over a border through a war zone into an enemy country?

He's either set this up as a false flag attack, or it genuinely is an IS attack and he's making political ends out of the corpses before they are cold.

[River Don]

A genuine ISIS attack that is being manipulated I think.

I read somewhere about a car where Tajik passports had been found. Tajikistan would make sense, within the Russian sphere, neighbouring Afghanistan.

Tajikistan is under pressure because of the Ukraine war, Russia can't afford to devote the same resources to it. ISIS is likely to be operating there. They might want to try and destabilise Russia whilst it's engaged in a serious war.

Were these blokes really fleeing to Ukraine? Very doubtful.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I think the linking of this attack with Ukraine in whatever way serves lots of agendasincluding tjose of Russia, Ukraine, US. Anything taking the heat and focus off the conflict can be used as a benefit, especially in adding anothing layer of fog to things. Examples above.

The effect of this attack, the customary revenge action, notably in how the target is chosen, will be interesting to see unfold.

[River Don]

I can see how linking a terror attack on unarmed citizens to Ukraine suits Putin's agenda.

It makes no sense for Ukraine to be associated with it and they strongly deny it.

The US warned of an impending attack, that Russia failed to take seriously. The US accept the ISIS admission.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.

[River Don]

Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.

It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.

It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.

It was March 7th, and they said for the next 48 hours. They said the perceived threat was from the ISIS K group. On March 7th, Russia says it foiled an attack by ISIS-K on a Moscow synagogue. I haven't got details, but there have apparently been other warnings from the US to Moscow about possibe attacks, hence this one apparently not taken so seriously as being on high alert over a protracted period is harmful. Also in the mix is the work of Ukraine in attacking Moscow and other cities, including civilian areas.

So the headlines obscure the full picture.

The terrorists planning to escape to Ukraine is an interesting point. Some were captured after getting away in a car. So far I haven't see where they were reportedly captured. If it was heading SW, then surely Ukraine is a possible destination.

Then, would Ukraine have anything to do with fascilitating all this, or being linked in any way? Unlikely, that would be stupid. But to say absolutely not is premature. Would the Russian secret services have been involved? Again, possible but unlikely.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Exactly, the US is using this to try to make it seem on the ball with intelligence plus being generous in who it shares that with.

It's common knowledge the US made that warning and warned western citizens in Russia not to go to crowded areas or events like concerts. They were on the ball.

This is how warped BRR's view is.

He's saying explicitly here that the US CORRECTLY predicted a future event to make it SEEM that it is good at intel, and to make it seem generous.

You literally cannot argue with this world view. Not because it is right, but because every time there are fact that challenge that world view, the response is "Yeah but that fact must be explicable by some new arguments I will postulate to make my world view right."

It is identical to the approach of religious fundamentalists. They say "God exists and certain things of God's will cannot be understood." Then when someone does scientific studies that show you CAN understand something, they say "Ah yeah. God allowed you to understand that. But he still exists and the next thing isn't understandable."

It's a faith that will interpret any and every event in a way that "confirms" the faith. You cannot use logic to argue with that.