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Quote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it? I'm 63 this year and have supported my club since i was eleven, not once have me and my mates sat on a coach or train on our way to a away match or in a Donny boozer before a home match and said "Anyone seen the latest data? Because that will really influence my love of our club today!
Question for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it?
Quote from: Darren on May 04, 2024, 10:39:56 pmQuote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it? I'm 63 this year and have supported my club since i was eleven, not once have me and my mates sat on a coach or train on our way to a away match or in a Donny boozer before a home match and said "Anyone seen the latest data? Because that will really influence my love of our club today!You’re quite right. When you’re on your way to watch your team play you’re buzzing. That’s ‘the love’ & long may it remain.We want ‘bairns’ in their mum & dad’s arms at games. Seven to ten year olds, twelve to fourteen, fifteen to eighteen, eighteen to eighty.
Quote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it? I'm 63 this year and have supported my club since i was eleven, not once have me and my mates sat on a coach or train on our way to a away match or in a Donny boozer before a home match and said "Anyone seen the latest data? Because that will really influence my love of our club today!
Quote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it?They don’t. They use it. It is an element. A point of interest and reference but they don’t ‘rely’ on it.
Quote from: Bollinger on May 04, 2024, 10:16:25 pmQuote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it?They don’t. They use it. It is an element. A point of interest and reference but they don’t ‘rely’ on it. You are wrong in your assessment of its influence in modern day football. Decent example perhaps being Luton. They openly say, without pivoting their approach to being data driven they wouldn’t be in the Premier League. It’s no longer a reference point for most clubs, it’s the back bone of their operation. That part of football not being for every fan is fine, I’ve said before, there are many different facets of football that different people get different things out of… but without being patronising, smug or whatever else will get thrown at me. If you don’t realise the value of data and accept it’s massive importance in football (in life in general these days) it’s because you don’t understand it and how it is applied.
Quote from: GazLaz on May 05, 2024, 07:05:58 amQuote from: Bollinger on May 04, 2024, 10:16:25 pmQuote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it?They don’t. They use it. It is an element. A point of interest and reference but they don’t ‘rely’ on it. You are wrong in your assessment of its influence in modern day football. Decent example perhaps being Luton. They openly say, without pivoting their approach to being data driven they wouldn’t be in the Premier League. It’s no longer a reference point for most clubs, it’s the back bone of their operation. That part of football not being for every fan is fine, I’ve said before, there are many different facets of football that different people get different things out of… but without being patronising, smug or whatever else will get thrown at me. If you don’t realise the value of data and accept it’s massive importance in football (in life in general these days) it’s because you don’t understand it and how it is applied.I know more than you would realise. My job takes me into 52 of the FL clubs on a regular basis. It’s the emphasis of the use of the words ‘rely’ I am objecting to. Inevitably this came up at a coaching seminar a few months ago and one well known manager pointed out that, ‘It’s A tool we use. It’s not THE tool.’
Quote from: Bollinger on May 05, 2024, 08:15:59 amQuote from: GazLaz on May 05, 2024, 07:05:58 amQuote from: Bollinger on May 04, 2024, 10:16:25 pmQuote from: NickDRFC on May 04, 2024, 08:46:19 pmQuestion for all the data haters - if it’s such nonsense, why does every football club in the country rely on it?They don’t. They use it. It is an element. A point of interest and reference but they don’t ‘rely’ on it. You are wrong in your assessment of its influence in modern day football. Decent example perhaps being Luton. They openly say, without pivoting their approach to being data driven they wouldn’t be in the Premier League. It’s no longer a reference point for most clubs, it’s the back bone of their operation. That part of football not being for every fan is fine, I’ve said before, there are many different facets of football that different people get different things out of… but without being patronising, smug or whatever else will get thrown at me. If you don’t realise the value of data and accept it’s massive importance in football (in life in general these days) it’s because you don’t understand it and how it is applied.I know more than you would realise. My job takes me into 52 of the FL clubs on a regular basis. It’s the emphasis of the use of the words ‘rely’ I am objecting to. Inevitably this came up at a coaching seminar a few months ago and one well known manager pointed out that, ‘It’s A tool we use. It’s not THE tool.’ Obviously not the only tool. Doesn’t mean it can’t be the most important. Once you can get an accurate as possible reflection of what is happening during a game of football you can use it for pretty much anything (football related obviously!). There is so much happening on a pitch, 22 players, thousands of actions a game, various hand stated during the match etc that it’s impossible for a human to consume everything. Analytics is the only way to get anywhere close. It’s there and can give you a huge head start. Take what I do for example. We have been the most successful (ROI wise) football betting syndicate in the country in recent seasons. Obviously much much larger syndicates, of which there are only a few leg really, have their ROI limited due to scale etc, but within that sector we have done great. The reason for that is that we have been the best at adding that “human” input into our trading. Thats our edge. I understand the necessity of that as much as anyone. The thing is, without having models that can also compete with the very very best (Asian bettors, Tony Bloom and Matt Benham and the like) we wouldn’t have a really accurate baseline figure to allow that human input and decision making at the end, to have the impact it does. We are looking for 3%, 4%, 5% (if that) mistakes in the markets. It’s the same in a professional football environment. You can set up a really solid structure based on data and then gain a real edge by getting the human, unquantifiable stuff right as well. The main key to this data structure is that you can maintain consistency LONG TERM, that consistency is much harder to maintain using human decision making alone.
Paid to the academy.
This thread is like a meeting of The Flat Earth Society."F#£kin,science, stats,load of shite"
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 05, 2024, 12:19:00 amThis thread is like a meeting of The Flat Earth Society."F#£kin,science, stats,load of shite"I believe the analytical stats are ideal for the coaching side to use, if they help them work out how to improve performances. I get that they are useful in the betting industry, but I don’t bet so I don’t really care.As for the “average” football fan, I don’t see stats being important. How do you measure the feeling when Trotta hit the bar, when Sharp scored vs Boro, Jones’ winner at Stevenage etc.Spectating enjoyment can be ruined by abysmal officiating or opposition shithousery (Cotteril’s Portsmouth for example) regardless if our team stats were actually good?Like someone else said, I get a feeling for how well a player has performed by observation. That will always be subjective and lead to debate - for example lots of folks thought Paul Keegan was crap, but I thought he was very effective in his role. What were his stats? I couldn’t give a toss.!Stats are fine, but for me the stats that count are goals for and against.
This thread is like a meeting of The Flat Earth Society."F#£kin,science, stats,load of shite"
I think there’s some confusion on data. I don’t think anyone is saying you have to look at the data to enjoy watching a game as a fan. But obviously you do need to look at the data if you are the manager, if you are responsible for recruiting players, etc.As has been pointed out the clubs that do look very closely at the data, Brighton, Brentford, Luton, have massively overachieved. It doesn’t mean all their fans have to watch games with a spreadsheet open.