Oh Dear....

[wilts rover]

So another poll has Starmer winning 44 - 39 - and coming across as more honest than Sunak 54 - 29. That will have some of the Tory fan boys choking on their cornflakes:

https://x.com/Peston/status/1798244480186786030

[wilts rover]

Yeh people who send their kids to £48,000 a year private schools are really scrimping and scraping.

I know lots of people who borrow money to get their kids into Private Education. What you don’t understand is they are all top band achievers so when that are forces into the state schools system what happens to the kids who are a bit behind them  academically? They will get pushed down the ladder. Our state schools are struggling as it is, Labour will not be able to fund his 6,50o teachers when the house of cards collapses!

You know lots of people in the top 7% of society (which is who go to public school) what a world you move in.

As I said earlier some schools have been forced to close due to pupil numbers falling across the country. The more children who go to a school the more money that school gets to fund extra teachers/ta's.

What do you think happens now with children of different academic abilities in the same school?

So a straining state school sector could be about to be invaded by thousands of ex public school kids.

That will really help the progress of a great many kids who are in schools that are already feeling the pinch.

Would it not have helped these kids to have the additional burden not imposed on them by a poor law that will have greater consequences than it will alleviate.

Not according to Wilts , in the leafy affluent part of England where he lives schools are shutting down due to lack of pupils, that isn’t the case in south Yorks most schools are over subscribed!

Better go tell the Daily Heil then, there was a 9% drop in Primary School numbers in Doncaster this year:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13296979/areas-risk-school-closure-map-district-drop-birth-rate-funding.html

Around 90 primary school are currently less than 2/3rds full and at risk of closure:

https://edexec.co.uk/more-than-90-primary-schools-at-risk-of-closure-due-to-lack-of-pupils/

[ChrisBx]

As stated earlier in this thread, Sunak's repeated claims regarding Labour's costings is dodgy:

https://x.com/hzeffman/status/1798252445321343456?t=d7sd9eB_D7GqAN_lqlL1Qg&s=19

[IDM]

Please can someone explain exactly how I will be paying £2000 more tax under Labour?

Which taxes are due to rise?  Tell me and I will look at that information and judge for myself.

Which party has frozen the tax threshold for years thereby effectively raising tax anyway?

[ChrisBx]

Please can someone explain exactly how I will be paying £2000 more tax under Labour?

Which taxes are due to rise?  Tell me and I will look at that information and judge for myself.

Which party has frozen the tax threshold for years thereby effectively raising tax anyway?

Nobody can tell you that as the £2,000 figure was manufactured by the Conservative party. Anyone who claims to know that Labour will increase your bills by £2,000, or any other figure for that matter, at this stage is lying.

Labour's manifesto is out this week, at which point I'm sure there will be independent analysis of the costs involved.

[jmt23]

Awful to watch, Sunak was allowed to ride rough shod over Starmer and the presenter. His tactic was to drum over what they think we will all be taxed, and not let anyone get a word in.

Sunak was confident, but has had prior experience, they showed a clip of him a few years back, and he looked a nervous wreck. So you can see he knew what to expect and how to handle it.

We cannot allow the tories to get back in, from Brexit, Boris(ye gods) May and possibly the biggest country wrecker Truss, the country is ruined, if not broken and skint beyond belief.

They are only calling an election because they don’t want to be in government when we all have to pay for the blood scandal and post office scam. There will be zero money for anything. Taxes will go up whoever gets in, there is no option but too.

Just been found the tories are lying about the tax and presented by the bbc and itv.

[selby]

  The easy tax will be cost per mile on travel, fuel duty on petrol and diesel to give EV's an advantage as  private sales and second hand sales are tanking.
  Increasing local rates on property especially in whoever is in opposition areas so the sitting government takes the flack, I wouldn't be surprised if VAT on certain foods not taxed at the moment is introduced and increased on takeaway's and restaurants as the health effect of fast food is publicised and the excuse. Alcohol duty increased especially on wine Ulez more widely used by local government to protect their pensions, Parking charges if VAT is not imposed now to be included a nominal charge to attend doctors and A&E. increased prescription charges, you name it they will tax it.
  What will increase is the use of cloned number plates and  consequently lots of illegal drivers insurance wise on the roads already the Ulez introduced in London has a fines dept of nearly £300 million in uncollected fines with difficulty of tracing correct  owners of vehicles, if you add the Deptford tunnel its over half a billion £ good luck with that.

[IDM]

Got any proof of those suggested tax rises, or just your opinion.?

[IDM]

There is going to be a second leaders’ debate on tv isn’t there?

Perhaps Starmer has more ammunition up his sleeve for then, or at least we will have seen their manifestos by then?

[selby]

  Just my opinion  what I would do for maximum income for little cost.
   The small payment to attend doctors surgery and A&E is the main reason most European countries have shorter waiting lists and you can see a doctor, never mentioned when figures are compared with those countries by politicians and could be a big income stream for the NHS.
  By the way I never saw the debate, but every broadcaster I have listened to says Sunak ripped Starmer a new backside. The debate I would like them to take on would be against Galloway and Farage in the same set up. my advice to both would be don't turn up.

[danumdon]

Regardless of the nonsense and froth that was gleaned from the debate last night.

What concerned me most was that a relatively lightweight political operator like Sunak was able to manufacture a situation where the prospective PM of this country was made to look like a startled rabbit in the headlights, slow witted and very lacking in presence and stature.

We all know contests like this have little bearing on any outcome (bar an extraordinary occurrence taking place) but it does give us an idea of how we can expect Starmer to be performing on the political stage over the next five years.

The party manifestoes will be produced in the next couple of weeks and the electorate will then get given a taste of what's in store for all of us, many will never read them or even be aware they are produced but it will allow this type of nonsense to be screwed down for the rest of the campaign.

Lets just hope this is a wake up call to Starmer, he needs to somehow start to demonstrate leadership, poise and statesman like qualities.

We keep getting told that the UK has a diminished presence on the world stage, with performances like that we will certainly become the whipping boys for everyone to take a pop at.

Starmer, 5 out of 10, must try harder and needs to stop looking like he's just seen the economic performance of the country laid out large over the next Five years of his tenure, flash before his eyes.

Sunak, 6 out of 10 for trying to defend the undefendable, far too little, far too late to be of any use to anyone, its got to the stage where the country don't care what comes out of his mouth, he has to be replaced and unfortunately the Starmer and Raynor show is the only show in town,

God help us all.

[IDM]

You can’t judge either of them on that event last night.  The format was terrible, designed for entertainment rather than serious debate.

Starmer will do much better when there Would be more seemly debate, with more time for considered replies etc, rather than the forced sensationalism we saw last night.

You only have to look at his performances at PMQs, especially vs Johnson, to see what he can do.

I expect he will come across better in the second tv debate.

[selby]

  Another income stream the NHS and government could explore is legalise certain drugs, open drug centres and medically supply the drugs under supervision and undercut the dealers driving them out of business and another income steam for the NHS. and a controlled standard of drugs under prescription.
  Accept we have lost the streets and drug scene and attack it head on, take it away from the gangs.

[River Don]

  Another income stream the NHS and government could explore is legalise certain drugs, open drug centres and medically supply the drugs under supervision and undercut the dealers driving them out of business and another income steam for the NHS. and a controlled standard of drugs under prescription.
  Accept we have lost the streets and drug scene and attack it head on, take it away from the gangs.

This actually makes perfect sense. Particularly when other nations around the west are steadily giving up the war on drugs.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anyone remember how smooth and assured Nick Clegg was in the first ever leaders' debate?

That turned out well.

Lesson: Leaders' Debates are entertainment, nothing more.

[Donnywolf]

I disagree totally best

Imo they are not entertainment , and though I watched that one wanting Sunak to crash and burn , they are irrelevant and as I posted on a different thread I've seen my last one

One more I daresay than the 13 million who could vote but wont

[River Don]

Heh,  just spoken to me Mam. She reckons Sunak is "a little shit" you can see it, apparently. She voted for Johnson last time... Perhaps it wasn't such a winning performance last night?

[Herbert Anchovy]

I said on another thread that leader debates are a waste of time and are just done to please the media. It's the Americanisation of UK politics. We very rarely learn anything new and they descend into slanging matches ala' PMQ's.

For the record, I don't think Starmer was on sparkling form and seemed to allow himself to get a little flustered by Sunak which is odd given that he often gives him a hiding at PMQ's. Given the amount of ammo he has on the government it was disappointing. Sunak told bare faced lies about tax (again). The guy is toast and has nothing to lose.

Also, I've seen various polls about who 'won' the debate. Surprisingly, a poll for The Sun has got Starmer as the 'winner' of the debate by 20 points.

Personally, I think that they're a load of bollox.

[danumdon]

You can’t judge either of them on that event last night.  The format was terrible, designed for entertainment rather than serious debate.

Starmer will do much better when there Would be more seemly debate, with more time for considered replies etc, rather than the forced sensationalism we saw last night.

You only have to look at his performances at PMQs, especially vs Johnson, to see what he can do.

I expect he will come across better in the second tv debate.

Yes, but the massive difference would be that at that point he would be on the other side of the table having to defend policies he'd enacted rather than take pot shots from the safety of the opposition benches.

May look trivial but i'd say that's a very big difference.

Hopefully the manifestoes can tidy up some of the conjecture, when he finally shows his hand the public can see what Starmer has in store for us all, apparently!

[i_ateallthepies]

Starmer's getting destroyed.....

Just remind me, BB, which of the two had the audience laughing out loud at him for what he was saying?  In your own time...

[i_ateallthepies]

Syd there is a Private school in Donny say they have to close because most of the pupils are no longer able to attend as the parents who are not millionaires can’t afford the new fees, the kids will get soaked up by the best schools in Donny who will readily accept them as it will push up their academic scores, my Grandaughter is in such a school ,if she gets pushed down from the top group into a lower group she will not be receiving the same education as she was , likewise all the other kids who are not as academic will also be pushed down the ladder and alsowill lose out! That’s what I am getting at.
My own experience of school was going to a Comprehensive that was a merged Grammar and secondary modern, the teachers has clearly lost interest and we suffered, the fact that 60% of the lads didn’t give a toss as they were content to tread water and go down the Pit was also an issue!

And judging by the shyte you post on here, Sprotty, you suffered more than most.

[wilts rover]

BBC's Friday election debate guests confirmed

Penny Mordaunt – Conservative Party
Angela Rayner – Labour Party
Daisy Cooper – Liberal Democrats
Stephen Flynn - Scottish National Party
Carla Denyer – Green Party
Rhun ap Iorwerth – Plaid Cymru
Nigel Farage – Reform UK

Why is Farage there and not Galloway, Binface, Corbyn and every other independent.

Reform tanked in the local elections and the RWP had 1 more MP in the last parliament than Reform have ever had?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BBC's Friday election debate guests confirmed

Penny Mordaunt – Conservative Party
Angela Rayner – Labour Party
Daisy Cooper – Liberal Democrats
Stephen Flynn - Scottish National Party
Carla Denyer – Green Party
Rhun ap Iorwerth – Plaid Cymru
Nigel Farage – Reform UK

Why is Farage there and not Galloway, Binface, Corbyn and every other independent.

Reform tanked in the local elections and the RWP had 1 more MP in the last parliament than Reform have ever had?

Because he's good box office and, as I say, this is treated by the media as entertainment.

[River Don]

BBC's Friday election debate guests confirmed

Penny Mordaunt – Conservative Party
Angela Rayner – Labour Party
Daisy Cooper – Liberal Democrats
Stephen Flynn - Scottish National Party
Carla Denyer – Green Party
Rhun ap Iorwerth – Plaid Cymru
Nigel Farage – Reform UK

Why is Farage there and not Galloway, Binface, Corbyn and every other independent.

Reform tanked in the local elections and the RWP had 1 more MP in the last parliament than Reform have ever had?

Because he's good box office and, as I say, this is treated by the media as entertainment.

So is Binface.

I'd actually consider watching if he was on!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BBC's Friday election debate guests confirmed

Penny Mordaunt – Conservative Party
Angela Rayner – Labour Party
Daisy Cooper – Liberal Democrats
Stephen Flynn - Scottish National Party
Carla Denyer – Green Party
Rhun ap Iorwerth – Plaid Cymru
Nigel Farage – Reform UK

Why is Farage there and not Galloway, Binface, Corbyn and every other independent.

Reform tanked in the local elections and the RWP had 1 more MP in the last parliament than Reform have ever had?

Because he's good box office and, as I say, this is treated by the media as entertainment.

So is Binface.

I'd actually consider watching if he was on!

True.

Fun fact. Mrs S-T used to be in a band with Binface.

[jmt23]

I think the problem in debates between the general public (like on here) is they do not base the arguments on policies, they are party people, no matter what they will vote Tory/Labour/LibDem or heavens forbid Green.
I am ashamed to have voted for the tories last time - what an utter mess they have made, and now all they are doing is pandering to the mid-far righters so they don’t lose them to Farage and the party totally falls apart.

I do think Labour are the party to sort this mess out, but it will not be an easy task - the Tories have utterly ruined the country, far beyond anything before. Starmer may need a couple of years to sort his cabinet out, I don’t think some of the current lot will be up to it.

[ChrisBx]

Sunak's lies are now being investigated by the Office for Statistics Regulation:

https://x.com/HandyMan_18/status/1798310955438534948?t=e_iU6tBNCnLyXyDvD1JrCg&s=19

To echo the OP, "oh dear"!

[selby]

  Billy are they entertainment when you lose, and more serious if you think you have won.
  Farage on Friday then, wish Galloway were on as well the rest could stay at home and dream.
  Lucky Legs in a mini skirt anyone?

[ravenrover]

Some posters seem to be getting a little mysogynistic

[normal rules]

I’m looking forward to potty mouthed rayner losing her rag