Gareth Southgate

[dickos1]

It's not negative drivel to make perfectly accurate observations about how it is only flashes of individual brilliance that has kept us in this tournament for so long.
A lot of supporters are dismayed that a team so bristling with talent is playing drab, dull, unexciting soccer. You only have to look at Spain to see the contrast. The irony is that the 2 most arguably undeserving and boring teams, England and France, might well end up being the finalists in which case the end will have undoubtedly justified the means.

Dismayed that the national team which has been absolute shite for decades in tournament after tournament is now consistently going deep into tournaments
Dismayed indeed

[DRFC_AjA]

Football league = 40+ games of hard slog week in week out. For that yes you do need an element of entertainment

International tournament = 7 games of I couldn't care less so long as we win. Even getting to semis or finals isn't winning, granted, but it still gets you excited. If you can't be jumping up and down after we win on pens or have a tinge of excitement that we've got to a semi AGAIN (thanks Gareth) then I'd suggest you change your passport to Georgian or Turksih. You can have that warm glow inside that you played well but didn't progress

And please please no more "but we should be...", "but with these players....". Blah. That's just English arrogance to assume the "best" on paper should win. Which we do every 2 years since Lampard et al

[drfcsteve]

It looks like people take a different view on whether it’s England or Rovers.

For me, this is like if Grant bought what on paper was the best team in League 2, the bookies had us as clear favourites to win the league, and we ended up playing games against Bromley and Tranmere having 1 shot on target and struggling to get a result.

If we had an average squad that would be fine, but the frustration for a lot of us is the feeling that any other manager would be getting a better performance out of these players.

[tyke1962]

Football league = 40+ games of hard slog week in week out. For that yes you do need an element of entertainment

International tournament = 7 games of I couldn't care less so long as we win. Even getting to semis or finals isn't winning, granted, but it still gets you excited. If you can't be jumping up and down after we win on pens or have a tinge of excitement that we've got to a semi AGAIN (thanks Gareth) then I'd suggest you change your passport to Georgian or Turksih. You can have that warm glow inside that you played well but didn't progress

And please please no more "but we should be...", "but with these players....". Blah. That's just English arrogance to assume the "best" on paper should win. Which we do every 2 years since Lampard et al

Well yep ultimately it's a results business but neither do you get a free pass with that .

There's respect for the game for starters , the money the fans have spent to get to Germany , the millions of pounds tv companies have paid to broadcast the tournament and of course the sponsors .

Entertaining football has to be in there somewhere .

[sedwardsdrfc]

The issue Gareth has in his way of playing, or not playing if we’re honest, means it’s completely all or nothing.

Playing like this we can only win the tournament or else we’re left thinking why did we turn up and not try. Playing so beneath ourselves in fear of everyone no matter how poor they are.

We’re in the Semis and the passion for so many isn’t there. It’s not just a few trolls it feels like the vast majority are watching out of duty only.

If Spain got beat by France they’d be gutted but know they went as far as they could and left nothing to chance. If we lose to Holland playing like this we’re just left with question marks. The end result is the same but humans aren’t machines it’s not binary. The way things make you feel matters and this isn’t doing it for most people.

If we win none of this matters and he’ll rightly get his knighthood and history won’t remember any of our negativity. If we don’t we’ll all remember this as one we were too scared to win. Simply put by been so negative he’s raised the stakes. Lose and they’ll be nothing redemptive about it.

[Lesonthewest]

It's not negative drivel to make perfectly accurate observations about how it is only flashes of individual brilliance that has kept us in this tournament for so long.
A lot of supporters are dismayed that a team so bristling with talent is playing drab, dull, unexciting soccer. You only have to look at Spain to see the contrast. The irony is that the 2 most arguably undeserving and boring teams, England and France, might well end up being the finalists in which case the end will have undoubtedly justified the means.

It becomes 'drivel', 'embarrassing' etc when you don't agree with certain posters, it seems to annoy some when others opinions differ from there own. Me personally would never call other posters 'embarrassing' or are talking 'drivel' because their opinions are different.

[dickos1]

It looks like people take a different view on whether it’s England or Rovers.

For me, this is like if Grant bought what on paper was the best team in League 2, the bookies had us as clear favourites to win the league, and we ended up playing games against Bromley and Tranmere having 1 shot on target and struggling to get a result.

If we had an average squad that would be fine, but the frustration for a lot of us is the feeling that any other manager would be getting a better performance out of these players.

It’s hardly that is it
We’re only the favourites with bookies in this country for obvious reasons.
How many of this squad would’ve got in the golden generation starting 11? Not many.
We have 2 or 3 world class players but the rest of the squad isn’t better than the other top teams in the tournament, far from it

[dickos1]

The issue Gareth has in his way of playing, or not playing if we’re honest, means it’s completely all or nothing.

Playing like this we can only win the tournament or else we’re left thinking why did we turn up and not try. Playing so beneath ourselves in fear of everyone no matter how poor they are.

We’re in the Semis and the passion for so many isn’t there. It’s not just a few trolls it feels like the vast majority are watching out of duty only.

If Spain got beat by France they’d be gutted but know they went as far as they could and left nothing to chance. If we lose to Holland playing like this we’re just left with question marks. The end result is the same but humans aren’t machines it’s not binary. The way things make you feel matters and this isn’t doing it for most people.

If we win none of this matters and he’ll rightly get his knighthood and history won’t remember any of our negativity. If we don’t we’ll all remember this as one we were too scared to win. Simply put by been so negative he’s raised the stakes. Lose and they’ll be nothing redemptive about it.

The passion was there in italia 90 and euro 96, when the performances were poor.
The issue now is that people enjoy being negative, it happens on this forum all season long.
Another reason is we’ve had a bit of success in tournaments so people expect us to do well, where in the past we were shite so if we reached the semis it was a massive achievement and everyone was excited, now because of the success Southgate has brought us, people are taking it for granted!
We will look back at this era with fondness yet the people living it can’t enjoy it

[sedwardsdrfc]

You’re probably right. Also it’s a defence against disappointment. France have been pretty terrible too but they have pedigree we just don’t.

Seeing other years and the hype around it coming home I’m not sure people enjoy being negative more than getting carried away.

[Lesonthewest]

It looks like people take a different view on whether it’s England or Rovers.

For me, this is like if Grant bought what on paper was the best team in League 2, the bookies had us as clear favourites to win the league, and we ended up playing games against Bromley and Tranmere having 1 shot on target and struggling to get a result.

If we had an average squad that would be fine, but the frustration for a lot of us is the feeling that any other manager would be getting a better performance out of these players.

It’s hardly that is it
We’re only the favourites with bookies in this country for obvious reasons.
How many of this squad would’ve got in the golden generation starting 11? Not many.
We have 2 or 3 world class players but the rest of the squad isn’t better than the other top teams in the tournament, far from it

Exactly this, in spades. Some posters will either look back over time & use it as an excuse, whilst detracting from we as supporters of our country are actually watching. Last game excluded.

[StocksArmy]

Success isn’t getting deep into tournaments though, success is winning it. If you don’t win it you have not reached the target you have set out to achieve therefore you have failed. England have a history of shooting themselves in the foot in knockout stages of competitions whether it be silly individual errors, poor tactics or completely bottling it. I for one won’t be convinced that Southgate is a good manager but the blame isn’t completely on him for performances. The players have to own it when they are poor. What he has done is created a real togetherness in the dressing room and stopped the divide of our players at club level and I feel that is what has got us to the semis. Are we capable of going all the way? Yes. Will we? Probably not.

[dickos1]

If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.

I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped

[BillyStubbsTears]

Success isn’t getting deep into tournaments though, success is winning it. If you don’t win it you have not reached the target you have set out to achieve therefore you have failed. England have a history of shooting themselves in the foot in knockout stages of competitions whether it be silly individual errors, poor tactics or completely bottling it. I for one won’t be convinced that Southgate is a good manager but the blame isn’t completely on him for performances. The players have to own it when they are poor. What he has done is created a real togetherness in the dressing room and stopped the divide of our players at club level and I feel that is what has got us to the semis. Are we capable of going all the way? Yes. Will we? Probably not.

I think this "win or it's a failure" attitude needs to be tempered by a realistic assessment of where England have ranked historically.

Go back over the 50 years before 2018 and it's a pretty sorry story. Based on tournament outcomes, we've typically been about the 8th best side in Europe on average, and about the 16th best side in the world.

It's hard to swallow, but the evidence is unarguable. Historically over that 50 years we had never really been a contender. Whisper it, but over that period we weren't very good, despite that fact that we like to consider ourselves among the football powerhouses.

See it that way and it's a difficult argument to make that we MUST win a tournament or we are failures, still less that we should do so playing exciting football. We are already, consistently performing way above our historical average.

[dickos1]

I’m quite shocked but at the same time pleased that we strongly agree with each other on this subject billy

[tyke1962]

Success isn’t getting deep into tournaments though, success is winning it. If you don’t win it you have not reached the target you have set out to achieve therefore you have failed. England have a history of shooting themselves in the foot in knockout stages of competitions whether it be silly individual errors, poor tactics or completely bottling it. I for one won’t be convinced that Southgate is a good manager but the blame isn’t completely on him for performances. The players have to own it when they are poor. What he has done is created a real togetherness in the dressing room and stopped the divide of our players at club level and I feel that is what has got us to the semis. Are we capable of going all the way? Yes. Will we? Probably not.

I think this "win or it's a failure" attitude needs to be tempered by a realistic assessment of where England have ranked historically.

Go back over the 50 years before 2018 and it's a pretty sorry story. Based on tournament outcomes, we've typically been about the 8th best side in Europe on average, and about the 16th best side in the world.

It's hard to swallow, but the evidence is unarguable. Historically over that 50 years we had never really been a contender. Whisper it, but over that period we weren't very good, despite that fact that we like to consider ourselves among the football powerhouses.

See it that way and it's a difficult argument to make that we MUST win a tournament or we are failures, still less that we should do so playing exciting football. We are already, consistently performing way above our historical average.

We are talking about now Billy at this tournament in time .

Put it this way if we go out tomorrow evening with a poor performance are we saying It's still above average because Luther Blisset , Mark Barham and Steve Foster aren't in the team ? .

[dickos1]

It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.

[tyke1962]

It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.

So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?

[StocksArmy]

If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.

I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped

Even if we had not ever won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.

[Goole Rover]

If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.

I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped

Even if we had not ever won had never won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.

I don’t believe that I think you’ve been listening to the hopeful and the media.

[dickos1]

It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.

So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?

Yes,

[dickos1]

If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.

I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped

Even if we had not ever won had never won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.

It’s realistic for a lot of teams in the tournament but only one can win it,
We’ve got to 3 semi finals out of the last 4 tournaments compared to 2 in the previous 50 years before Southgate joined.
It’s astounding that he gets so much stick

[StocksArmy]

If your only measure of success is winning a tournament then you’re always going to be disappointed.
Only one team can win it and we’re up against the best teams and players in the world.
When we’ve won one thing in over 100 years you can’t state only winning something is successful.

I keep saying it but I’m sure people forget how shite we’ve been forever, people talk like we used to be winning everything and now it’s stopped

Even if we had not ever won had never won it it’s still a failure. It’s a failure for any team that goes out of a competition it’s just a lot of teams have to be realistic. Realistic to England is winning the competition because we have the quality to beat anybody in it.

It’s realistic for a lot of teams in the tournament but only one can win it,
We’ve got to 3 semi finals out of the last 4 tournaments compared to 2 in the previous 50 years before Southgate joined.
It’s astounding that he gets so much stick

I think we have proven we can perform well under Southgate but, you are in the minority with that one. I hope you are right this time Sunday mind.

[dickos1]

The problem with Southgate is it was an underwhelming appointment. If mourinho had taken over at the same time and taken us to 3 semi finals out of 4 tournaments, with exactly the same performances, he would be being lauded a genius for transforming the national team

[Pancho Regan]

It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.

So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?

Getting to the last four in the Euros?
Of course that would mean we’d done OK!

You don’t agree?

[PDX_Rover]

The problem is that England are frustrating to watch under Southgate. I think most of us want to win but do so with attractive performances.

Like Spain do.

[tyke1962]

It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.

So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?

Getting to the last four in the Euros?
Of course that would mean we’d done OK!

You don’t agree?

No I don't , given the talent we have , the way we've played and the way the draw opened up I think it will have been an underwhelming tournament should we go out tonight .

More importantly perhaps I reckon the FA will also think that and there will be a change in management .

I firmly believe Southgate has to win the tournament in order to justify the means in which it was achieved and stay on as HC .

[dickos1]

The problem is that England are frustrating to watch under Southgate. I think most of us want to win but do so with attractive performances.

Like Spain do.

This kind of statement I can’t get my head around. We’ve been terrible for 80 years doing shite in tournaments but now we’re doing well in each tournament people are unhappy because we’re not playing attractively enough for them

[dickos1]

It’s another semi final, only our 3rd in euros history. 2 have come under Southgate.
And people complain.

So if we go out tomorrow we've done ok in your opinion then ?

Getting to the last four in the Euros?
Of course that would mean we’d done OK!

You don’t agree?

No I don't , given the talent we have , the way we've played and the way the draw opened up I think it will have been an underwhelming tournament should we go out tonight .

More importantly perhaps I reckon the FA will also think that and there will be a change in management .

I firmly believe Southgate has to win the tournament in order to justify the means in which it was achieved and stay on as HC .

Underwhelming to reach a euros semi final for only the third time ever.
Why are England footballs fans so entitled after being so shite for 80 years. It makes no sense at all

[sf9944]

I predict that Southgate will leave the job whatever the outcome in this tournament. 

I think he will be confused, disappointed and disillusioned with how he is treated despite his undoubted success in overseeing England becoming a genuine world force.

I think the suggestion that we have better players than any other country and therefore should be winning these tournaments is overdone.  Good old English exceptionalism but in reality, while we have world class players, we are not better than all the other teams in the tournament. 

Classic case of be careful what you wish for.  I wonder if in hindsight we will view Southgates tenure as manager as a golden era that we really should have been more grateful for. Time will tell.

[idler]

Southgate might get more praise a year or two after he has left.
There is no guarantee that his successor will have as much or even more success.
Watching all football teams can be frustrating and we could and maybe should have beaten Croatia, Italy and France in previous tournaments but unfortunately it happens. We might have still lost those games if we had played more on the front foot or made different subs during games.