Gareth Southgate

[NickDRFC]

I know it’s not really fashionable these days (for anything) but I would say I occupy the middle ground with Southgate. I think he’s done a very, very good job with England and have a lot of respect for him, but I also think that regardless of what happens in the next game or two I would replace him.

He’s clearly an excellent man manager and the players love him, but there’s a lingering feeling that we could be doing more. He’s very conservative (nothing wrong with that, it won Deschamps a World Cup with a squad every bit as talented as ours) but to be relying on one or two shots on target to see you through a round of 16 or quarter final, when it’s not even against a favoured nation, means you’re very reliant on Lady Luck. The fact that we got through both is testament to the resilience that Southgate has built, but we could easily have gone out.

People say be careful what you wish for and there are cautionary tales in football like Charlton and Curbishley, but equally there are managers going and teams being elevated to the next level (Adkins/Poch at Southampton and Hughton/Potter at Brighton). Southgate himself also looks like he’s struggling with it - he’s snippier with the press and has seemingly created a siege mentality, which I fully understand. It must be difficult when half the country don’t like you, rate you and refuse to give you credit because you’re articulate and don’t bounce around the technical area like a mad man. Perhaps he’s also ready for a change either way as well.

[i_ateallthepies]

It is indisputable that Southgate has given us more 'success' than any England manager since Sir Alf.  What I and most on here are disappointed with is his chosen method of achieving that, especially in this latest tournament.
The almost automatic choice to go backward or at best sideways even when there is a clear and obvious forward option is infuriating.  Those occasions that going backward is necessary can be seen by anyone with eyes and wouldn't attract criticism but the way Southgate's team is playing it is totally sapping the enthusiasm out of the game for England supporters.

[IDM]

It is indisputable that Southgate has given us more 'success' than any England manager since Sir Alf.  What I and most on here are disappointed with is his chosen method of achieving that, especially in this latest tournament.
The almost automatic choice to go backward or at best sideways even when there is a clear and obvious forward option is infuriating.  Those occasions that going backward is necessary can be seen by anyone with eyes and wouldn't attract criticism but the way Southgate's team is playing it is totally sapping the enthusiasm out of the game for England supporters.

This, especially the bold bit.

In terms of tournaments, Southgate has been a success beyond most of his predecessors, but that word “infuriating” is spot on.

We know the players are better than that, we see it week in week out.  We need their regular type of performances to beat the top teams and win tournaments.

[ncRover]

Spain make more forward passes because they have the likes of Yamal and the rapid Williams stretching the defence and making runs in behind.

Morata is also very underrated and looks a lot sharper than Kane at present.

Their only weakness was Navas at right back but Carvajal is back for the final.

[drfcsteve]

I don’t understand the point about how we’ve been crap previously so we should be happy. That’s irrelevant.

We were the favourites to win this tournament before it started. We were 3rd favourites to win the last World Cup and we were second favourites to win Euro 2020 and ended losing to Italy who weren’t even fancied before the tournament began. All this has happened with Southgate getting incredibly lucky with the teams we’ve played.

So it’s completely rational for fans to expect Southgate to be getting to finals and winning them, regardless of the past, because this is what the bookies have expected based on the players we’ve got.

[dickos1]

I don’t understand the point about how we’ve been crap previously so we should be happy. That’s irrelevant.

We were the favourites to win this tournament before it started. We were 3rd favourites to win the last World Cup and we were second favourites to win Euro 2020 and ended losing to Italy who weren’t even fancied before the tournament began. All this has happened with Southgate getting incredibly lucky with the teams we’ve played.

So it’s completely rational for fans to expect Southgate to be getting to finals and winning them, regardless of the past, because this is what the bookies have expected based on the players we’ve got.

That’s nonsense.
We were the favourites only in this country because English people but bets on England.

To disregard all the history and all the failure is nonsensical,
This kind of success in tournaments has never been experienced before we should be enjoying it, and trust me many many people are,
But we have a few who can’t wait for us to fail, they will be negative even if we win the tournament..

If we win tonight it will be the first ever final we’ve reached on foreign soil in the history of football, yet folk will still be complaining

[drfcsteve]

With respect, what you’re saying is nonsense. If that’s how betting odds worked then England would be favourites for every tournament with bookies that operated in England. Are you suggesting in Scotland the bookies there had Scotland as favourites?

[dickos1]

Of course not
But how odds work is the number of people putting bets on effects the price
So in England there are far more people putting bets on England to win it so the price comes down because the bookies are a lot more vulnerable.
In Spain and France we weren’t the favourites

Nobody in Scotland would’ve been putting bets on them to win it so no they wouldn’t have been favourites.

Even when we were shite in tournaments we were amongst the favourites in this country

[ncRover]

Of course not
But how odds work is the number of people putting bets on effects the price
So in England there are far more people putting bets on England to win it so the price comes down because the bookies are a lot more vulnerable.
In Spain and France we weren’t the favourites

Nobody in Scotland would’ve been putting bets on them to win it so no they wouldn’t have been favourites.

Even when we were shite in tournaments we were amongst the favourites in this country

Aren’t most bookies a global market?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Southgate might get more praise a year or two after he has left.
There is no guarantee that his successor will have as much or even more success.
Watching all football teams can be frustrating and we could and maybe should have beaten Croatia, Italy and France in previous tournaments but unfortunately it happens. We might have still lost those games if we had played more on the front foot or made different subs during games.

As I've said before, Bobby Robson was an object of absolute national hatred a match into Italia 90.

He's now seen as one of the very best managers England has ever produced.

And he was replaced by Graham Taylor...

[Reg of the Rovers]

I think for his own sake Southgate should have gone before Qatar - after reaching our first final in 50 odd years and with pretty decent public support. He'd have left on a high then, and as others have said in retrospect we'll remember him positively, but right now there's a lot of people (me included) who want him gone irrespective of what happens here, and a general sense he's sapped the nations enthusiasm for tournament football.

it's a perfectly reasonable opinion that Southgate is a great manager and to be hailed for his accomplishments, but there's more than a minority who don't agree with that - 27 pages here, and thousands of comments on the BBC sports pages - and that's perfectly reasonable too!

I desperately hope we win tonight and Sunday, bring the nation back some footballing pride, and let Southgate step aside on a high.

[Little Wolf]

I remember robson getting loads of abuse in mexico 86 but did not think it was that bad in italia 90, a log time ago so my memory might not be that good

[drfcsteve]

Of course not
But how odds work is the number of people putting bets on effects the price
So in England there are far more people putting bets on England to win it so the price comes down because the bookies are a lot more vulnerable.
In Spain and France we weren’t the favourites

Nobody in Scotland would’ve been putting bets on them to win it so no they wouldn’t have been favourites.

Even when we were shite in tournaments we were amongst the favourites in this country

Aren’t most bookies a global market?

Exactly. If odds were higher on England to win in other counties everyone could make a gaurenteed profit by backing England abroad and laying them here at lower odds.

The fact is England are favourites because they had the best statistical chance of winning the tournament.

[dickos1]

No,
They had the guy from coral sports on the radio the other day and he said England are only the favourites in this country.
The price was different in other countries.

But the fact remains we’re always amongst the favourites and we’ve never come anywhere near the consistency we’re providing now under Southgate

[Metalmicky]

One change...

[NickDRFC]

Konsa hard done by there, he was excellent against the Swiss but then Guehi has also been very good this tournament. It wouldn’t surprise me to see us revert to 4 at the back, will be interesting to see.

[GazLaz]

No,
They had the guy from coral sports on the radio the other day and he said England are only the favourites in this country.
The price was different in other countries.

But the fact remains we’re always amongst the favourites and we’ve never come anywhere near the consistency we’re providing now under Southgate

Absolute b*llocks from the man from Coral. Markets are set by the 100s million bet in the Asian markets. If the English money did impact the price in anyway it would be no more than half a point. 3/1 instead of 7/2. Very negligible. We were favourites based on our record in recent tournaments and the quality of our players.

[dickos1]

Maybe so, I don’t know was just reiterating what he said.
He also said England have been amongst the top 3 favourites for every tournament they’ve been in since Euro 96

[ncRover]

One change...

Isn’t Guehi right footed?

Another strange line up.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Could easily be back to a back 4 with Trippier at left back.

[drfchound]

Playing against a team who won’t just sit back and challenge us to break them down might work in our favour tonight.

[Little Wolf]

We got the extra man in midfield and the better midfield, can we draw their wingers deeper or will they push our wing backs back

[MachoMadness]

Rice gets absolutely mugged off there, you can't account for that as a manager.

[sedwardsdrfc]

This is more like it. Those never get given as a pen but anywhere else on the pitch you’d get a free kick and a card so I’m not disagreeing with them!

[Little Wolf]

You would be fuming if that penalty was given against you, maybe the football gods are on our side

[sedwardsdrfc]

Need another before they get it at half time and Southgate tells them to stop it!

[dickos1]

That was definitely a pen, anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.
England are playing well, need to score whilst on top though

[sedwardsdrfc]

If we can give Shaw 30min from the bench then it would add so much to us.

[Filo]

Game is made for Shaw at LWB, you can see they are reluctant to give it to Trippier

[Little Wolf]

That was definitely a pen, anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.
England are playing well, need to score whilst on top though

We are playing well but that was never a penalty kanes follow through from his shot hit his studs even the var person was shocked it was given