Gareth Southgate

[dickos1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

[sedwardsdrfc]

It's the right time for him to go. Eight years in the job and been successful to a degree. Not lifted any silverware and the natives have been restless this last month.
A new voice and new ideas is what's needed to try and get the full potential out of this crop of young players.

Hopefully Harry Kane will also step.down from international football as he was nowhere near the levels required at international tournament football.

Surely that’s down to him not being fit (for which Southgate, the medical staff and Kane himself are all culpable given how much he played). He’s just come off the back of a 40 goal season in the Bundesliga and is only 31, feels far too early to write him off.

Wouldn’t be surprised if he missed the start of the season due to injury. If his performances in the Euros are now where he’s at he won’t play for Bayern

Can’t believe someone’s levels could drop so quickly from a 40 goal season without it been a injury

[dickos1]

He’s obviously not fit, he missed the end of the season. And wasn’t match fit.

[sedwardsdrfc]

He’s obviously not fit, he missed the end of the season. And wasn’t match fit.

Isn’t that weak from Southgate to keep picking him though? Was clearly hurting the team as a whole despite scoring a few tap
Ins

[dickos1]

Definitely nothing wrong with tap ins!
Yes arguement could be there to not have played Kane but if you’re trying to get match fit the only thing to give you that is matches

[sedwardsdrfc]

He looked less fit every match played.

I hope the next manager is brave enough to make the hard choices which benefit the team as a whole including dropping big names.

Gareth is given a hard time for not taking risks but starting a player who can’t move in a cup final is one I’d rather we don’t take in future.

[dickos1]

He’s definitely made brave choices,
Not selecting grealish, not playing foden in the last euros, playing Trent centre mid, playing maguire,
He’s made lots of early subs in this tournament!
Anyway he’s gone now,
The pressure on the next guy is going to be massive, a lot to live upto

[Ryaldinhio]

I was never his biggest fan but wouldn't disrespect the bloke.

Done a great job changing the environment around England, just couldn't make that final step to win summat.

He was in a no win situation in that final. Drop kane and lose he is at fault, play kane and lose he is at fault.

Ultimately the best team won the tournament. That's that.

Done his best, we move on, he moves on.

[sedwardsdrfc]

100% easy in hindsight he made plenty of good decisions too and will rightly be remembered as the best since Ramsey.

We’re very close and the attitude/mentality of the players doesn’t seem to be the problem it was in the past now. Hopefully the next man takes up on a level.

[Ryaldinhio]

100% easy in hindsight he made plenty of good decisions too and will rightly be remembered as the best since Ramsey.

We’re very close and the attitude/mentality of the players doesn’t seem to be the problem it was in the past now. Hopefully the next man takes up on a level.

I get the feeling Bellingham believes in the hype about him. Very good player clearly,  but too much walking about and throwing himself on the floor for my liking.

[Lesonthewest]

Come on Dickos. Where are you? Your man is a failure. Still won nothing. Despite the mountain of luck that he has had to get to the final we lost (deservedly) to the first proper team we have played. Go Gareth. Go.

On my way back to England you clown.

Here come the petty insults.

I mean it’s not like he wasn’t provoked to respond there is it!

And all the other times?

[Lesonthewest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

[dickos1]

What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.

[dickos1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

[mushRTID]

Perfectly acceptable to think he’s left us in a better place AND think he’s wasted chances to win a trophy, especially Italy.

[dickos1]

It was a penalty shootout,
I just can’t fathom how we go from being absolutely shite in every tournament to losing on pens in a final and the manager instead of being praised for that gets slagged off

[mushRTID]

It was a penalty shootout,
I just can’t fathom how we go from being absolutely shite in every tournament to losing on pens in a final and the manager instead of being praised for that gets slagged off

It shouldn’t have got to penalties.

We went 1-0 up against a crap Italy side and he shit himself.

It’s ok to disagree mate, not sure why you appear to take it so personal.

Hes done a good job. He also cost us a trophy. It is what it is.

[dickos1]

This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view

[ncRover]

This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view

Big team? Italy didn’t qualify for the World Cup before or after that Euros win.

[NickDRFC]

This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view

There’s a fair bit of over the top, undeserved criticism of Southgate and the team, both in this thread and elsewhere, but there’s a difference between that and rational, reasoned arguments about mistakes that have been made. It seems like you can’t distinguish between the two and any sort of criticism is shouted down with “nonsense”, “daft”, “clown” etc.

FWIW I think that Southgate has been an extremely successful manager for us and have an extraordinary amount of respect for him. I also think it was time for him to go, that he has made mistakes over his tenure and had a fair dose of fortune in that time that previous managers did not (easier draws, no red cards to key players etc). It is possible to have a view with some nuance.

[Chris Black come back]

This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view

Big team? Italy didn’t qualify for the World Cup before or after that Euros win.

I know one of the narratives running on England is that we value great players over a great system, but that Italian squad was probably the most anonymous for many a year. Their main striker was that lad who Moyes bought for big money at West Ham and loaned him out within a year.

[dickos1]

This is what people always say when we beat a big team, “yeah but they were crap”
Same with us beating Germany and Holland
Fact is Italy had knocked out Belgium and Spain to get to the final, also beat the Swiss 3-0who knocked the French out so no they weren’t crap
I just don’t know where the entitlement comes from to say it shouldn’t have gone to penalties it’s an astounding point of view

Big team? Italy didn’t qualify for the World Cup before or after that Euros win.

Italy of course are one of the big names in world football. And in that tournament they were very good, we were a penalty kick away from beating them. In our first ever Euro final.
But the manager gets slagged off for it.

A lot of the people being negative about England are the same ones who are negative about Donny, pretty sure that’s not a coincidence!

End of the day Southgate is comfortably the second most successful manager of all time, so deserves respect rather than the bashing he’s getting from some quarters

[Lesonthewest]

What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.

There you go going over the past again, my opinions, (& everyone's are 10 a penny), are regarding the here & now, over 8 years Gareth has taken us forward without doubt, but when push comes to shove he has failed to win anything, with performances going backwards to what they were. That's the hard reality & he made the right call to move on. That's the current reality, not what anyone has done in the past.

[dickos1]

Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.

[BobG]

Hear hear!

BobG

[silent majority]

Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.

Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.

But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.

But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.

[dickos1]

Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.

Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.

But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.

But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.

We won 6 knockout games Martin between 1967 and 2016 that is terrible, yes we had good teams but they never performed anywhere near to the consistency Southgate’s teams have faired in his 4 tournaments.
We’d never reached a euros final and never reached any kind of final on foreign soil.
If in 2016 anyone would’ve suggested the next manager would take us to a World Cup semi final in two years time and then two consecutive euros finals you’d have had them taken away in a straight jacket.

[NickDRFC]

Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.

Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.

But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.

But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.

I agree with a lot of this (although some of it I do feel is a bit harsh), but think your recollection in bold is a bit muddled - Sven was sacked, not stepped down, and there was 10 years and 3 managers (McLaren, Capello, Hodgson) between him leaving and Southgate being appointed.

[silent majority]

Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.

Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.

But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.

But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.

I agree with a lot of this (although some of it I do feel is a bit harsh), but think your recollection in bold is a bit muddled - Sven was sacked, not stepped down, and there was 10 years and 3 managers (McLaren, Capello, Hodgson) between him leaving and Southgate being appointed.

Yes there's something missing from what I meant to write!!

The point I wanted to make is that other managers had a good win record too, SGE obviously (and the 5-1 in Munich will live with me forever!) and his team in Portugal in 2004 was well capable of winning that competition. But Capello and Hodgson's stats weren't that bad, they just couldn't deliver in competition format for all sorts of reasons, but generally because they all make the mistake of trying to shoehorn the best players into a single team.

I did mean to say when Hodgson stepped down!

[silent majority]

Don’t be silly!
You can’t disregard how bad we’ve been for 60 years. Between 1966 and 2016 we’d won 6 knockout games, that is absolutely atrocious.
Southgate has won 9 in his 8 years.
To go from how bad we were to what we are now simply can’t be ignored, it’s the measure of how much he’s transformed the team.

Steady on dickos, we haven't been quite that bad for 60 years. We've had some good tournaments along the way and played some good football. We won Le Tournai once, we were the best team in the world in 1970 but some bad luck (and mismanagement by Alf Ramsey) put paid to that. We then went on terminal decline for a number of years playing archaic football when others moved with the times. We weren't a bad side in 1996, and neither were we that in 2002. In 2004 we were the best side in Portugal, a tournament we should have won if Rooney hadn't suffered his injury. But I'm not going to go through all this tournament by tournament, because if you look at the winners of the Euro's you'll see that the best side doesn't always win, if that was the case Denmark wouldn't have their title, neither would Greece or Portugal, and Germany can put at least on of their titles down to good luck.

But Southgate without question has been good for the national team, but the question is does he deserve all the plaudits? On balance maybe, but you have to throw into the equation his position with the FA and some luck along the way. lets remember he was only appointed by the FA because they started to get it wrong. SGE's win record is almost as good as GS's. but when he stepped down they made the vital mistake of appointing Sam Allardyce, a major boo boo. His only game was against Slovakia and it was a turgid performance, but the revelations about him accepting bribes was an embarrassment for the FA. So, they needed a cleaner than clean person to step into his shoes, who better than GS. The gamble he took wasn't quite as big or as insightful as everybody thinks, he took the young lads he knew to Russia and didn't expect much from them. If they had failed miserably he had a built in excuse, but they got out of the group in 2nd place and only really impressed in the game against Sweden falling to Croatia when they should have beaten them. The next Euros were at home and a loss in the final to Italy seemed like a good return, but we could and should have done better.

But why are we doing so much better now? We're doing better because the investment in St Georges Park and a commitment to changing the style of English play is paying off, plus we can't under estimate the Academy's that each club now operate, but especially the Academies that the EPL have been funding for so long. This is the difference, this is what GS should have been capitalising on. If you look at his style of play when he took the young lads to Russia compared to what we've seen in the last few weeks you have to appreciate that we've gone backwards. Instead of having a style of play that he can slot players into that can play that system he's picked 11 players and tried to manipulate them, its just so wrong. On balance he's been a positive, but it is time to move on.

We won 6 knockout games Martin between 1967 and 2016 that is terrible, yes we had good teams but they never performed anywhere near to the consistency Southgate’s teams have faired in his 4 tournaments.
We’d never reached a euros final and never reached any kind of final on foreign soil.
If in 2016 anyone would’ve suggested the next manager would take us to a World Cup semi final in two years time and then two consecutive euros finals you’d have had them taken away in a straight jacket.

I made the point some weeks ago that competition formats changed over the years, the Euros especially, which makes a straight forward comparison difficult to do. However I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument, just that the England national team has not been as bad as people make out for 60 years.