Gareth Southgate

[dickos1]

Maybe not when looking at ability, but in major tournament football it’s been pretty appalling for the 50 years between 1966 and Southgate’s appointment.
I think the only difference is we have an extra round, but we’ve been knocked out by some really Poor teams like Romania and Iceland and not even qualified for some of them.
Compare that to what we have now and it’s a dramatic shift

[silent majority]

Maybe not when looking at ability, but in major tournament football it’s been pretty appalling for the 50 years between 1966 and Southgate’s appointment.
I think the only difference is we have an extra round, but we’ve been knocked out by some really Poor teams like Romania and Iceland and not even qualified for some of them.
Compare that to what we have now and it’s a dramatic shift

No, you need to look again. The finals of the competition consisted of 4 teams until 1980 which then increased to 8. In 1984 they went from the group stages directly into the semi finals. In 1996 they went to 16 teams using a format we now recognise.

My point is that a straight forward comparison of knock out wins isn't possible if you use your start year as 1966.

[arkseyrover]

Very well said SM. Your observations and comments on past England teams/managers/performances are balanced and accurate.

[dickos1]

I understand that, but it just meant the quarter finals etc were played beforehand,
if you go from 1996 our tournament record looks even worse, nothing better than a quarter final in the 20 years before Southgate. And then two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments

[RoversInSpain]

Was Southgate good?
Does he deserve all the plaudits?
Looking at the past if Rooney was this,  if the FA did that? The team played nice football,

….Well we never even got to a final- end of

And if Declan puts that header in, yep IN A Final btw..

I’d give up Dickos

Jesus… well let’s see if in the next four tournaments beat the last four.

Very short England performance, (and results- be all and end all, btw) memories

All the best Gareth and thank you for 10 times the journey any one manager has given us since ‘66.

Wait till we get Lee Carsley ….

[Lesonthewest]

What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.

But during his 8 years, with the tools required, has won nothing.

[Lesonthewest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

[dickos1]

What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.

But during his 8 years, with the tools required, has won nothing.

As I keep telling you, if you’re only
Measure of success is winning a trophy against the best players in the world where only one team can win anything every 2 years then you’re setting yourself up for misery and disappointment

[dickos1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

[Lesonthewest]

What’s also reality is.
Since 1966 we’ve been to zero major finals and he’s taken us to two consecutive finals. It beggars belief that people call his tenure a failure just because we haven’t won anything when we’ve won nothing in 60 years.
England have been an absolute shambles for 20 years when he took over, squads better than the ones he’s taken charge of and never got past a quarter final, he’s transformed the whole experience of the national team, made it feel like a club side, created an atmosphere where all the players got on, an atmosphere where all the players wanted to be a part of it.
You can ignore what we were when he took over and you will because it doesn’t fit the agenda to acknowledge it, but the job he’s done in making the national team something to be proud of again is incredible.
And as I said if your marker of success is winning something only then the next manager is only going to disappoint you, only one team can win a tournament and our squad is up there with the best but it’s only up there, there are other squads just as good so it’s incredibly tough to win a World Cup or a euros.

But during his 8 years, with the tools required, has won nothing.

As I keep telling you, if you’re only
Measure of success is winning a trophy against the best players in the world where only one team can win anything every 2 years then you’re setting yourself up for misery and disappointment

As I keep telling you, there is no misery or dissapointment, as much as you would like to be, about England not winning a tournament. Gareth has done a great job, & left the post much better than when he came in, but he has failed to win a tournament in his 8 years. That's a fact, no matter how you want to sugar coat it by going back to compare other tournaments, players, managers etc. It means nothing. He was right to go, & hopefully we bring in someone who can win it for us, because Southgate couldn't.

[dickos1]

Ok, we’re never going to agree.
Just bonkers to me to keep saying he’s been a failure because we didn’t win anything even though he’s got us performing better than anyone ever has before in tournaments.
Bobby robson was knighted and never got us to a final, Terry venables couldn’t get us to a final on home turf.
Both these are looked back on fondly but both failed with much more conviction than Southgate did if we’re going by your logic!

[silent majority]

I understand that, but it just meant the quarter finals etc were played beforehand,
if you go from 1996 our tournament record looks even worse, nothing better than a quarter final in the 20 years before Southgate. And then two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments

No it doesn’t mean that, just do me a favour and read how the Euros were structured beforehand, there was no quarter finals!!

There were group games played during the regular season, and your positioning in the group decided whether you played in a summer knock out competition.

The point I’ve made, which I’m getting bored with now as you can’t understand the competition format, is that comparisons are not as easy to make as you seem to think they are.

[Lesonthewest]

Ok, we’re never going to agree.
Just bonkers to me to keep saying he’s been a failure because we didn’t win anything even though he’s got us performing better than anyone ever has before in tournaments.
Bobby robson was knighted and never got us to a final, Terry venables couldn’t get us to a final on home turf.
Both these are looked back on fondly but both failed with much more conviction than Southgate did if we’re going by your logic!

Yet again, time after time you go over old tournaments & managers to support your view. 8 years, no trophies. There are no comparisons or formats that matter other than winning the tournament. That's the aim.

[Lesonthewest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

Wrong again, total supposition.

[dickos1]

I understand that, but it just meant the quarter finals etc were played beforehand,
if you go from 1996 our tournament record looks even worse, nothing better than a quarter final in the 20 years before Southgate. And then two finals and a semi out of 4 tournaments

No it doesn’t mean that, just do me a favour and read how the Euros were structured beforehand, there was no quarter finals!!

There were group games played during the regular season, and your positioning in the group decided whether you played in a summer knock out competition.

The point I’ve made, which I’m getting bored with now as you can’t understand the competition format, is that comparisons are not as easy to make as you seem to think they are.

In 1976 the euros had a qualifying stage and the winners of those groups went into a quarter final.
The winners of those quarter finals then qualified for the final tournament.
So in essence it was the same thing but spread out over a period of time, anyhow even if you go from 1996 to Southgate’s start the performance of our national team with all the quality it had was a shambles

[dickos1]

Ok, we’re never going to agree.
Just bonkers to me to keep saying he’s been a failure because we didn’t win anything even though he’s got us performing better than anyone ever has before in tournaments.
Bobby robson was knighted and never got us to a final, Terry venables couldn’t get us to a final on home turf.
Both these are looked back on fondly but both failed with much more conviction than Southgate did if we’re going by your logic!

Yet again, time after time you go over old tournaments & managers to support your view. 8 years, no trophies. There are no comparisons or formats that matter other than winning the tournament. That's the aim.

Ok so just to clarify you also think venables and robson were failures too?

[dickos1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

Wrong again, total supposition.

This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been  taken apart by a good side.

No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”

[Lesonthewest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

Wrong again, total supposition.

This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been  taken apart by a good side.

No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”

You seem to have a problem with the words negativity & critique, it's not negative drivel, your play with words again when the opinion doesn't yours. that was my view on the game I had witnessed, not negativity, reality. It also had hd nothing to do with my views on our chances before the tournament started, so yes your wrong again with supposition, playing with words, & telling people what they are thinking without actually having a clue.

[BobG]

Negative critique?

BobG

[ravenrover]

So if our "failure" was all down to Southgate then I'm looking forward to winning the  the next WC and Euros easily.

Nicked off X

[Lesonthewest]

Negative critique?

BobG

Not really, just my opinion on what I witnessed.

[dickos1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

Wrong again, total supposition.

This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been  taken apart by a good side.

No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”

You seem to have a problem with the words negativity & critique, it's not negative drivel, your play with words again when the opinion doesn't yours. that was my view on the game I had witnessed, not negativity, reality. It also had hd nothing to do with my views on our chances before the tournament started, so yes your wrong again with supposition, playing with words, & telling people what they are thinking without actually having a clue.

It’s constant negativity, even when we got to the final it’s negative, this dilutes your arguement if you can’t ever be positive when it’s required.

Anyhow you still haven’t answered the question, were robson and venables failures? And will the next manager be a failure unless he wins the next World Cup?

[BobG]

And the next European Championship obviously. Don't forget that.

BobG

PS. Later. In fact the argument is clear. If England does not win every World Cup and every European Championship in perpetuity then we are failures.

[ravenrover]

And then Bob, it might be decided that Southgate wasn't too bad?
I say this as someone who didn't watch any of the games not even an England game.
One evening in France the campsite bar, which surprisingly I didn't visit, was showing a France game on a big screen . Very few were watching, we could see them from our campsite pitch and when France scored late on all we heard was a quiet shout and a short round of very quiet applause. Perhaps the French weren't enjoying watching their National team either?

[Lesonthewest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czrjyjrr80do

Take the quiz i was surprised by a lot of the answers
His record is not as good as most people thought

The stat that matters is which manager has won the most knockout games as manager. And it’s not even close.
He’s won more than all the previous managers since 1966 put together

Another stat that matters more than any, is that in 8 years he has won nothing, done a great job & I wish him well, thoroughly nice guy, but time to move on & bring someone in who can finish tge job & bring us a trophy.

If your expectation for the new manager is failure unless he wins a major trophy then you’re going to be all negative and miserable all over again.

Nope, wrong again, no negativity or misery I'm afraid. Just he's had 8 years to win something, nothing to do what has or not happened in the past, just the reality that he's tried his best admirably in those 8 years to do it but ultimately failed. That's the reality, not negativity, or misery!, just reality.

Don’t be daft, you went into the tournament being negative, you’ve been sat waiting for us to get knocked out, just because you didn’t rate him.

Well well wrong yet again, you know this for a fact, no of course you don't.

Of course I know you were negative before a ball was kicked it’s all on here

Wrong again, total supposition.

This was your post after a friendly, as I say before a ball was kicked in the tournament.
After every game in the tournament it was more negative drivel, nothing ever to say positive even though we reached the first ever final on foreign soil.
So yes you have always been negative and even if we’d won it you’d have been negative
“It was a disgrace of a performance, friendly warm up to a tournament or not. People have travelled & paid good money to watch their national team play at Wembley. No pattern to their play, no togetherness in the press, & a defence that would have been  taken apart by a good side.

No the game & the result means nothing, as our usual 'get a grip' commenters have pointed out, but what should have been witnessed was a team adding the final touches & looking at least like they know what theyr'e actually doing. It just wasn't there at all. Made me laugh when we made subs, they were coming off high fiving each other, for what? Being 1 down to the mighty Iceland?”

You seem to have a problem with the words negativity & critique, it's not negative drivel, your play with words again when the opinion doesn't yours. that was my view on the game I had witnessed, not negativity, reality. It also had hd nothing to do with my views on our chances before the tournament started, so yes your wrong again with supposition, playing with words, & telling people what they are thinking without actually having a clue.

It’s constant negativity, even when we got to the final it’s negative, this dilutes your arguement if you can’t ever be positive when it’s required.

Anyhow you still haven’t answered the question, were robson and venables failures? And will the next manager be a failure unless he wins the next World Cup?

I see your still having the problem separating the words negative & actual, if you read through the threads instead of choosing one you would find when we play well the oponion said so. Your argument lost any credence with me when you started making things up, only 2 things it could have been, fact, or made up in your head. You also are still banging on about previous managers, I don't care, it's in the past, gone. I didn't imply either we should win the world cup  lots of circumstances, new manager, playing sides who are used to playing in a climate we are unaccustom to etc. In my opinion though if the next manager doesn't win a trophy in 8 years with very good players, yes, it will be failure.

[dickos1]

If you’re being negative before the tournament has begun if you don’t acknowledge any positive when we’ve won games, played well in games reached a final. Continued the negativity even when we’re in a final.
Your only argument being we haven’t won anything so it’s a failure, it’s absolute nonsense.

The manager taking over now has taken over a squad that’s reached two finals in succession, Southgate took over a disaster of a squad. So to give them both the same remit for failure is just garbage.

It’s like someone taking over Arsenal and someone taking over Donny and saying whichever one doesn’t win the premier league in the next 8 years then they’re a failure

[silent majority]

You’ll find the following podcast does a much better analysis of Gareth Southgate’s reign as England manager than we’re capable of. And they also rank previous England managers.

As always, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper do an excellent job, well worth a listen;

https://shows.acast.com/it-was-what-it-was/episodes/gareth-southgates-england-legacy

[Lesonthewest]

If you’re being negative before the tournament has begun if you don’t acknowledge any positive when we’ve won games, played well in games reached a final. Continued the negativity even when we’re in a final.
Your only argument being we haven’t won anything so it’s a failure, it’s absolute nonsense.

The manager taking over now has taken over a squad that’s reached two finals in succession, Southgate took over a disaster of a squad. So to give them both the same remit for failure is just garbage.

It’s like someone taking over Arsenal and someone taking over Donny and saying whichever one doesn’t win the premier league in the next 8 years then they’re a failure

Your'e still not getting this are you. You akeep using the the 'negative' word when not agreeing with your opinion, it's not negative, it's calling it how you see it, it's a persons critique on what he's witnessed, & how the manager has done in his tenure.

It's not a 'nonsence' argument that he hasn't won anything in 8 years, it's factual, he hasn't. It's not 'garbage' if the next manager doesn't win anything in the next 8 years, it will be failure. It's not 'garbage' for both managers to have the same remit to go & attempt to win a tournament, that will be their job.

Nobody is disputing what Southgate has done or left behind, he's done a great job & will be a hard act to follow, but ultimately, has failed in 8 years to win us a tournament. As for your last paragraph, totally baffling.

[dickos1]

Of course it’s negative.
We get to the final for the first time ever and you’re slagging off the manager. That is baffling

[drfcsteve]

He got to 2 finals with some of the best squads England have ever assembled. This was down to the FA changing the whole set up and the massive improvement in young English players.

If he’d got to 2 finals with Scott Parker, Danny Rose, Glenn Johnson, Gary Cahill, Darren Bent etc, everyone would rightly be praising him as a miracle worker.

But you have to take in to account the resources available to the manager when judging his performance.