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Author Topic: Gareth Southgate  (Read 48036 times)

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drfcsteve

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1140 on September 11, 2024, 05:21:27 am by drfcsteve »
Well that last night was another breath of fresh air. Yes playing against a poor side but absolutely dominating and playing attractively.



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DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1141 on September 11, 2024, 08:25:50 am by DonnyBazR0ver »
Yes, I thought so too. Much more intent, although the risk is better teams might have made more of their counter attacks against us.

There was a good mix of old and new on show and thankfully we still have Kane who can put his foot through the ball. There's a danger it could go too tippy tippy, constantly recycling the ball, but there was enough penetrative passes we didn't take advantage of.

It just highlights to me we need to search for a Kane replacement as we need that striker who will separate us from the rest of the international teams who play a similar possession based style. The beauty of both his goals was the simplicity of early passes and bang!

There was alot to like, particularly Angel Gomes, who was the main conductor of the orchestra. Hard to spot a weakness in his game, he has a bit of everything.

Reg of the Rovers

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1142 on September 11, 2024, 09:02:11 am by Reg of the Rovers »
We were much better, definitely a step up from Southgate, but I'm worried that dominating lower teams will be enough to persuade the FA to stick with Carsley. Surely it's time to push the boat out and have a proper recruitment plan to bring in a decent top level manager. It's easy to plan a win against TLO Ireland and Finland, we need a manager who can beat Italy or Spain in a final.

ravenrover

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1143 on September 11, 2024, 09:20:18 am by ravenrover »
Which top level manager/s do you have in mind?

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1144 on September 11, 2024, 09:32:51 am by DonnyBazR0ver »
We were much better, definitely a step up from Southgate, but I'm worried that dominating lower teams will be enough to persuade the FA to stick with Carsley. Surely it's time to push the boat out and have a proper recruitment plan to bring in a decent top level manager. It's easy to plan a win against TLO Ireland and Finland, we need a manager who can beat Italy or Spain in a final.

Other than Pep and Jurgen, who are you thinking of?

Personally, I don't think a big name manager is necessary the answer. Gareth wasn't far off the answer as there's so much that goes into building a squad to get to the point of reaching the final stages of tournaments, then we get to the tip of the iceberg, which is just that bit more tactical nouse and bravery to get us over the line. We don't know that Carsley hasn't got that but we know already he can bring in the right players from the pool of talent he's overseen for years to play a more positive style of football. A top foreign manager won't have that depth of knowledge of the talent pool or necessarily tuned in to the English psyche.

There are pros and cons. What we might gain from a 'top level manager' having the tactical experience of winning big games, we might lose in other areas. Capello for example turned out far from ideal.

MachoMadness

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1145 on September 11, 2024, 10:03:29 am by MachoMadness »
Spain just won the Euros with a squad that isn't any better than ours under a manager who has a remarkably similar profile to Carsley. This idea you need a "proven" manager who's used to league football is nonsense - for international football you need a good coach who can get his ideas onto the pitch in a very short time. Carsley's advantage is that he knows a lot of the players from his time in the youth setup, so many of our big players at the next tournament will already know how he wants them to play.

It's his job to lose now I think.

Reg of the Rovers

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1146 on September 11, 2024, 10:31:14 am by Reg of the Rovers »
Maybe not a 'top manager' or 'big name', but maybe someone with some experience of top flight management, maybe some experience in the Champions League, of having worked with and managed against some top level players. I personally think Carsley is a huge gamble and wholly underwhelming for a team that should be pushing for major honours, this is his first first-team management job. Remember Danny Schofield anyone?

ravenrover

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1147 on September 11, 2024, 10:39:33 am by ravenrover »
There is a vast difference in managing what is effectively part time as England manager to a league manager working with players for 11 months every season. Could a Pep or a Klopp do the England job  to the level they do/did at league level? Remember they wouldn't have the pool and quality of foreign players such managers have day in day out

Reg of the Rovers

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1148 on September 11, 2024, 10:50:27 am by Reg of the Rovers »
I agree Raven, it's probably not a Pep / Mourinho type person, I just think there's probably some middle ground of a more experience manager who'll have a few more tricks up his sleeve for managing and managing against top level players than a complete newbie.

DonnyBazR0ver

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1149 on September 11, 2024, 11:21:01 am by DonnyBazR0ver »
I also think it's Carsleys to lose and I don't think I'd be underwhelmed for the reasons others have said about the difference between club and country.

I was thinking while watching it, Bellingham would not be walking in to that team. He'd have to show he's more of a team player, although I think there's room for a bit of a maverick at international level, someone who takes risks and is a bit different. For me Alexander Arnold is a bit maverick as he plays some off the cuff football being a bit unpredictable. Then there's Grealish of course who I think played well last night definitely not being too greedy.

Little Wolf

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1150 on September 11, 2024, 12:34:29 pm by Little Wolf »
Kane must have spent more time in the oppositions penalty area last night than he did in all of the euros and surprise surprise he looks the goal scoring machine we knew he was, the shape is now much better and the side looks much more balanced

belton rover

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1151 on September 11, 2024, 01:13:18 pm by belton rover »
I hope Carsley gets the job and it works out, but it’s way, way too early to be comparing him favourably to Southgate. We have played two poor teams in friendlies in all but name. Greece beat Ireland with the same scoreline as England’s.
I won’t be making much of a judgment until we play good teams in meaningful games.

dickos1

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1152 on September 11, 2024, 02:21:33 pm by dickos1 »
Kane must have spent more time in the oppositions penalty area last night than he did in all of the euros and surprise surprise he looks the goal scoring machine we knew he was, the shape is now much better and the side looks much more balanced

He was playing against far better teams than Finland in the euros.
Last year we played a similar level team to Finland in north Macedonia and won 7-0.
A bit of perspective needed, if we were 0-0 at half time against Finland under Southgate everyone would be going mad.
Could easily have been losing at half time

danumdon

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1153 on September 11, 2024, 02:39:09 pm by danumdon »
I think one observation that was apparent straight away was the use of round pegs in round holes.

Its always been a bugbear of mine that an international manager would attempt to play players who week in week out play in a particular manner to then ask them to come into the side and play completely different or in a completely different position.

When you have a player like Alexander-Arnold who is a right back but with a vision and a competency to play are certain way then its different , as this could well benefit you , just as it did last night. The previous manager was very guilty of putting square pegs in round holes and then doubling down on it when being challenged, much to the annoyance of everyone outside the group.

If the current temp can build on what he's achieved against what were two sides with very little quality then he deserves to be given a shot. What i don't want to see is that he then reverts to the mean just like Southgate did, promising to play form players and then choosing to stick with out of form favourites and played in the wrong positions too boot.

We have some very good players who are screaming out to be allowed to express themselves, playing to their strengths and being allowed to progress into a genuine world leading side.

dickos1

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1154 on October 11, 2024, 08:00:01 am by dickos1 »
Well if last night showed anything it was that Southgate was right all along regarding not just throwing all the best players onto the pitch. It also showed how important Kane is

roversdude

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1155 on October 11, 2024, 09:30:48 am by roversdude »
Last night was pitiful with at the best Sunday league defending

Reg of the Rovers

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1156 on October 11, 2024, 09:59:45 am by Reg of the Rovers »
I think what last night showed was that going from one underqualified inexperienced manager to another is a mistake and that the FA recruitment team need to look slightly further afield than their junior sides.

Draytonian III

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1157 on October 11, 2024, 12:05:00 pm by Draytonian III »
I think what last night showed was that going from one underqualified inexperienced manager to another is a mistake and that the FA recruitment team need to look slightly further afield than their junior sides.


So who do you want ?
Why that manager ?

roversdude

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1158 on October 11, 2024, 12:52:02 pm by roversdude »
I’d have gone for Pochettino but that ship has sailed whilst we go through a Roverseque process

karldew

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1159 on October 11, 2024, 02:24:03 pm by karldew »
Well if last night showed anything it was that Southgate was right all along regarding not just throwing all the best players onto the pitch. It also showed how important Kane is


You can’t really say how important Kane is when we never changed like for like. The normal formation and 70+ minutes for Watkins/Solanke and it could have been a completely different game.

TonySoprano

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1160 on October 11, 2024, 07:58:54 pm by TonySoprano »
Gareth southgate is a perfect example of "you don't know what you've got til its gone "

Best england manager since Ramsey

andyst79

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1161 on October 11, 2024, 09:58:25 pm by andyst79 »
England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.

donnyguy

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1162 on October 11, 2024, 10:16:29 pm by donnyguy »
Being reported that Thomas Tuchel is in talks with FA about the England job.

TonySoprano

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1163 on October 12, 2024, 07:28:29 am by TonySoprano »
England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.

Disagree, and the evidence is there over several tournaments.
It's just a shame fans who are hard of thinking never appreciated him. Even more bizarre now he's gone.

He simply was an all time great England manager.
The way he turned round the national side from the embarrassing defeat against Iceland, and turned england into genuine contenders is phenomenal.
He was a hairs breadth from winning 2 tournaments.

The best we can hope for now is last 16 or quarter final finishes .


andyst79

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1164 on October 12, 2024, 08:21:01 am by andyst79 »
England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.

Disagree, and the evidence is there over several tournaments.
It's just a shame fans who are hard of thinking never appreciated him. Even more bizarre now he's gone.

He simply was an all time great England manager.
The way he turned round the national side from the embarrassing defeat against Iceland, and turned england into genuine contenders is phenomenal.
He was a hairs breadth from winning 2 tournaments.

The best we can hope for now is last 16 or quarter final finishes .


I don't disagree that he turned us round and also brought some of the younger players through. Doesn't help that the press over hype our players but you do have to question could he have done better with the talent at his disposal? Also managed to get us relegated in the Nations league.

Chris Black come back

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1165 on October 12, 2024, 09:59:57 am by Chris Black come back »
Being reported that Thomas Tuchel is in talks with FA about the England job.

Tuchel has been very successful at time but it is noticeable his last four jobs he has kept for respectively, 2 years, 2 years, 1 year and 1 year. He could have been unlucky with those clubs a few times but four times in a row is perhaps not standard for a manager of his standing.

dickos1

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1166 on October 12, 2024, 10:38:32 am by dickos1 »
People will look back in years to come and hail the Southgate era.
A World Cup semi, and two euros finals is nothing like what we’ve ever achieved previously under any manager.
Nobody cares about the nations league

Lesonthewest

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1167 on October 12, 2024, 10:44:35 am by Lesonthewest »
But won nothing. Maybe we should have had another 5, 10, 15 years for him to win nothing, it was time to move on.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2024, 11:36:04 am by Lesonthewest »

BobG

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1168 on October 12, 2024, 11:12:27 am by BobG »
Question. It might dound like it's a daft one, but for me at least, it isn't.

Why is the measure of success winning a competition?

BobG

TonySoprano

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Re: Gareth Southgate
« Reply #1169 on October 12, 2024, 11:37:50 am by TonySoprano »
England were woeful in the Euros, had to rely on a late goal to get past Slovakia and looked ok against the worst Dutch side I've ever seen. Were outclassed in the final by Spain . Southgate was ok but you look at his record against big teams , it's poor.

Disagree, and the evidence is there over several tournaments.
It's just a shame fans who are hard of thinking never appreciated him. Even more bizarre now he's gone.

He simply was an all time great England manager.
The way he turned round the national side from the embarrassing defeat against Iceland, and turned england into genuine contenders is phenomenal.
He was a hairs breadth from winning 2 tournaments.

The best we can hope for now is last 16 or quarter final finishes .


I don't disagree that he turned us round and also brought some of the younger players through. Doesn't help that the press over hype our players but you do have to question could he have done better with the talent at his disposal? Also managed to get us relegated in the Nations league.

Could have have done better ?
Possibly, but it's a game of fine margins , and he came very very close. 

I highly doubt the next manager will come as close as southgate did.

If we beat Spain 1-0, the usual muppets would have just said it should have been 2-0.

Alot of the critics don't understand the difference between league and tournament football. It's a completely different animal
He absolutely didn't deserve the criticism he got, and needs a hel of alot of respect putting on his name.

 

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