Immigration

[sf9944]

Starmer saying labour will
Tackle the gangs is like him saying he will
Stop organised drug supply coming into the uk .
Utterly, utterly futile. A pipe dream. A political carrot.
Don’t take my word for it . Let’s re visit this in 4 years time. There will be a few headline grabbing successes but they will be like grains of sand in a desert on the grand scheme.
History will show that the single biggest failure of this incoming labour government will be its inability to stem the tide of migrants crossing the channel. If I’m Honest I don’t envy them .

Would you say the Rwanda scheme is also a political carrot?

[TonySoprano]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

[Bentley Bullet]

I suspect the question should be what is Starmer's plan that is different to that of the Tories, apart from cancelling the Rwanda plan?

Starmer says, "Where people have no right to be here, they will be removed."

He says he would "negotiate returns agreements with individual states and the European Union, creating a mechanism for those in Britain unlawfully to be removed."

Would a Labour government want to sign returns agreements with countries which have terrible human rights records, like Afghanistan? Or are in the grip of civil war?

Since Brexit, even negotiating returns agreements with our European neighbours would be challenging.

So, WHAT EXACTLY IS KEIR STARMER GOING TO DO DIFFERENT THAN THE TORIES HAVE ALREADY TRIED TO DO?

In other words, what is his NEW plan?

People arriving from countries with terrible human rights records and claiming asylum are unlikely to be sent back to those countries since that is the whole purpose of asylum arrangements.  Come on BB, do keep up.

85% of asylum seekers are male. Where are the women and children?

[drfchound]

I suspect the question should be what is Starmer's plan that is different to that of the Tories, apart from cancelling the Rwanda plan?

Starmer says, "Where people have no right to be here, they will be removed."

He says he would "negotiate returns agreements with individual states and the European Union, creating a mechanism for those in Britain unlawfully to be removed."

Would a Labour government want to sign returns agreements with countries which have terrible human rights records, like Afghanistan? Or are in the grip of civil war?

Since Brexit, even negotiating returns agreements with our European neighbours would be challenging.

So, WHAT EXACTLY IS KEIR STARMER GOING TO DO DIFFERENT THAN THE TORIES HAVE ALREADY TRIED TO DO?

In other words, what is his NEW plan?

People arriving from countries with terrible human rights records and claiming asylum are unlikely to be sent back to those countries since that is the whole purpose of asylum arrangements.  Come on BB, do keep up.

85% of asylum seekers are male. Where are the women and children?

Waiting for the signal to come and join them in the uk.

[SydneyRover]

Turkey already have a deal with the Afghan govt to send back Afghan nationals. They have sent back tens of thousands since the Taliban took back power.
You can fly to Kabul indirect via Turkey. The money spent on the current situation would be well spent looking at this as an option.

Turkey has over 3.5m refugees in its country

It also has a population of over 85 million . Turkey is also severely hampered geographically when it comes to accessibility for refugees.

Not sure how that effects the massive numbers of refugees they have nr?

Did I miss your answer to this nr?

[normal rules]

Turkey already have a deal with the Afghan govt to send back Afghan nationals. They have sent back tens of thousands since the Taliban took back power.
You can fly to Kabul indirect via Turkey. The money spent on the current situation would be well spent looking at this as an option.

Turkey has over 3.5m refugees in its country

It also has a population of over 85 million . Turkey is also severely hampered geographically when it comes to accessibility for refugees.

Not sure how that effects the massive numbers of refugees they have nr?

Did I miss your answer to this nr?

People can literally walk from the Middle East and North Africa to Turkey. Transport links are favourable too. Very much so. And I’m guessing the Turks are pretty sloppy in their administration of such. It’s a huge country with a huge border.
Not so easy to walk to an island.

[SydneyRover]

Turkey already have a deal with the Afghan govt to send back Afghan nationals. They have sent back tens of thousands since the Taliban took back power.
You can fly to Kabul indirect via Turkey. The money spent on the current situation would be well spent looking at this as an option.

Turkey has over 3.5m refugees in its country

It also has a population of over 85 million . Turkey is also severely hampered geographically when it comes to accessibility for refugees.

Not sure how that effects the massive numbers of refugees they have nr?

Did I miss your answer to this nr?

People can literally walk from the Middle East and North Africa to Turkey. Transport links are favourable too. Very much so. And I’m guessing the Turks are pretty sloppy in their administration of such. It’s a huge country with a huge border.
Not so easy to walk to an island.

A nice Sunday stroll you may say, what about the population numbers?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

[sf9944]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

This makes depressing reading.

[DonnyOsmond]

"Men of fighting age" is such an odd comment.

[danumdon]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

[drfchound]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

[danumdon]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

[SydneyRover]

Yep like food, job security, a better wage, a working health system, a better coordinated education system, more PPE less stick more carrot.

Not forgetting clean water.

[drfchound]

Yep like food, job security, a better wage, a working health system, a better coordinated education system, more PPE less stick more carrot.

All of which has been happening for many years, not just the last 14.
Probably why you cleared off when you did.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

[danumdon]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

[drfchound]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

Classic response there Billy boy.
You have a serious lack of respect for older people, especially ones who have worked hard over the years to have a comfortable retirement.
Why do you have a seeming hatred of them.
Not all of them are Tory’s (me included) so I suppose you are including Labour supporters in your uncalled for rant.
Oh and I see you are still harping back to the 1930’s.

[danumdon]

I'm quite sure that Avatar is his actual mush just after he's had one of these "rants"

[BillyStubbsTears]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

[drfchound]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

I think I am right in saying that too many people want things given to them without having to earn them.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

What makes you think you are are right.

BST is correct on this point hound. You only need to look at old newspapers online to see that they pretty much complain about the same things as today’s do. The perception that modern generation are lazy for one.

[drfchound]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

What makes you think you are are right.

BST is correct on this point hound. You only need to look at old newspapers online to see that they pretty much complain about the same things as today’s do. The perception that modern generation are lazy for one.

You might have noticed that I changed the wording of my post Herbert, and I think I am right with what I say.
Is it just old people who say it as bst is claiming.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

What makes you think you are are right.

BST is correct on this point hound. You only need to look at old newspapers online to see that they pretty much complain about the same things as today’s do. The perception that modern generation are lazy for one.

You might have noticed that I changed the wording of my post Herbert, and I think I am right with what I say.
Is it just old people who say it as bst is claiming.

I don’t know if it’s just old people or not Hound. I was just stating that the opinion that the modern generation is lazy and wants stuff for nowt etc isn’t a new one by any stretch. From my experience it generally is older people that hold that view, but I’m sure that they were on the receiving end of it in past!

[danumdon]

We have a variety of people on this forum, from different backgrounds and perspectives, different ages and with different experiences and with different levels of empathy and understanding of the world around them.

We also have some bonehead extremists, when we talk of extremists we often think of people like Farage, Corbyn and others like Putin but remember these are the tip of the iceberg, everyone knows that.

What you need to be wary of is the extremist who sit alongside us, the party fanaticals, the ones who can't see beyond the end of their nose and in who's world everything else is wrong because it doesn't conform to their understanding of life.

These extremist are here, they are amongst us and they make it clear every day with their extreme party views. These are the real extremist in life, the ones who cannot accept that everyday life does not revolve around their agitations.

What a way to live your life!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

What makes you think you are are right.

BST is correct on this point hound. You only need to look at old newspapers online to see that they pretty much complain about the same things as today’s do. The perception that modern generation are lazy for one.

You might have noticed that I changed the wording of my post Herbert, and I think I am right with what I say.
Is it just old people who say it as bst is claiming.

I don’t know if it’s just old people or not Hound. I was just stating that the opinion that the modern generation is lazy and wants stuff for nowt etc isn’t a new one by any stretch. From my experience it generally is older people that hold that view, but I’m sure that they were on the receiving end of it in past!

Hound has an obsession that I hate old people.

I don't.

I'm trying my best to become one myself.

I dislike SOME old people, not all. Because there are cracking folk and the opposite in every generation.

And of course it's mainly (part of) the older generation who moan about the younger one. By definition, you can't get young people saying "Young people today aren't as hard working as we were when we were young."

[selby]

  It is the hate of the Communists, They hate better than anyone people who don't follow the left's line of thought and better themselves.
 

[DonnyOsmond]

  It is the hate of the Communists, They hate better than anyone people who don't follow the left's line of thought and better themselves.
 

English?

[drfchound]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

What makes you think you are are right.

BST is correct on this point hound. You only need to look at old newspapers online to see that they pretty much complain about the same things as today’s do. The perception that modern generation are lazy for one.

You might have noticed that I changed the wording of my post Herbert, and I think I am right with what I say.
Is it just old people who say it as bst is claiming.

I don’t know if it’s just old people or not Hound. I was just stating that the opinion that the modern generation is lazy and wants stuff for nowt etc isn’t a new one by any stretch. From my experience it generally is older people that hold that view, but I’m sure that they were on the receiving end of it in past!

Hound has an obsession that I hate old people.

I don't.

I'm trying my best to become one myself.

I dislike SOME old people, not all. Because there are cracking folk and the opposite in every generation.

And of course it's mainly (part of) the older generation who moan about the younger one. By definition, you can't get young people saying "Young people today aren't as hard working as we were when we were young."

BST, you are doing your usual thing of misquoting people.
I haven’t said anything about young people not working hard, I know that loads of them do.
I am saying that there are lots of people who want things given to them without having to earn them.
To make it very clear, I’m not saying that all of those people are young ones.

[Bentley Bullet]

Their economic migrants, men of fighting age, who have left their families and travelled through several safe countries, and risked their lives in a dingy to get here, all because they see a pot at the end of the rainbow.

We're too soft, and need tougher measures to stop the boats, and a real deterrent against coming here.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever in coming here, we owe them nothing !

My father-in-law came to Britain as a migrant 50 years ago.

He worked his b*llocks off, set up two successful companies, was a pillar of the community, running a youth club and Sunday school, and fathered three wonderful kids, including the woman I'm honoured to share my life with.

I'd have 10 million of him before one of you.

Sounds like your farther in law arrived around the same time as my dad. There's not many of them left now but what a generation of people, wives included.

If we had a small measure of the work ethic, desire and enthusiasm to get stuff done now, we would be in much a better place.

Sadly times have measurably changed dd.
Too many people want things given to them without having to earn it.

So much for "progress"

Absolute b*llocks.

Every generation has idlers and hard workers.

The economy is f**ked these days because we've made a string of awful economic policy decisions over the past 14 years.

Old, right wing people have this attitude every generation. Go and read The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. He writes in absolute disgust of the attitudes of comfortable, old right wing people in the Great Depression, who say the problem is that people are too idle to work. Whereas the real problem was that Governments had made massive economic mistakes. When WWII came, the people who'd been airily dismissed as shirkers were the very same ones who joined up to fight Hitler, or who worked double shifts in the pits and the steel works to provide the means to beat him.

I'm sick of hearing this sort of ignorant, bone idle crap.

In your opinion, you need to remember that not everyone on here agrees with it, regardless of what you like to think.

I'm saying people with your and Hound's attitudes are there in every single generation. And every generation, they are wrong

What makes you think you are right this time?

What makes you think you are are right.

BST is correct on this point hound. You only need to look at old newspapers online to see that they pretty much complain about the same things as today’s do. The perception that modern generation are lazy for one.

You might have noticed that I changed the wording of my post Herbert, and I think I am right with what I say.
Is it just old people who say it as bst is claiming.

I don’t know if it’s just old people or not Hound. I was just stating that the opinion that the modern generation is lazy and wants stuff for nowt etc isn’t a new one by any stretch. From my experience it generally is older people that hold that view, but I’m sure that they were on the receiving end of it in past!

Hound has an obsession that I hate old people.

I don't.

I'm trying my best to become one myself.

I dislike SOME old people, not all. Because there are cracking folk and the opposite in every generation.

And of course it's mainly (part of) the older generation who moan about the younger one. By definition, you can't get young people saying "Young people today aren't as hard working as we were when we were young."

BST, you are doing your usual thing of misquoting people.
I haven’t said anything about young people not working hard, I know that loads of them do.
I am saying that there are lots of people who want things given to them without having to earn them.
To make it very clear, I’m not saying that all of those people are young ones.

What I will say is kids get more these days than we got. When we were kids we had hand-me-downs from our elders. Nowadays, it's the elders who get bloody hand-me-ups from the kids!

Mobile phones
Tablets
Headphones.....