Shadow board update.

[Lincoln Rover]

Good evening. Well after that performance & result the small matter of a meeting took place today.
Here’s the brief take on it.
After it was mentioned that some people were struggling to contact Elite pro sports re items not in stock/ needing to send back etc, with there being no contact number. The club are taking this up with the shop & EPS. Thanks for drawing that to your reps attention.
The exact amount received from the Everton cup match has not yet been established. However the best guesstimate, EFL ( 10 %),  after also deducting, VAT, stewarding, police turnstile ops etc, travel & hotels, it’s believed £80k will be heading the clubs way.The club wanted to remove the figures portrayed that £250k was heading to the clubs coffers, as alluded to by some.
The first set of applicants to join the shadow board,,were interviewed this morning with more to be spoken to in the very near future.
Rovers + The club has been challenged & looked into the various complaints received. Nearly all are different issues.These are not problems at the Donny end. The report that some of our equipment is out of date is completely untrue. I was sat near Liam today & there were no problems mentioned.The club has promised to continue to work with the EFL & suppliers.Other clubs are having similar problems. We will keep this one on our radar.
I hope this helps a little. Many thanks. Derek.

[scawsby steve]

Good evening. Well after that performance & result the small matter of a meeting took place today.
Here’s the brief take on it.
After it was mentioned that some people were struggling to contact Elite pro sports re items not in stock/ needing to send back etc, with there being no contact number. The club are taking this up with the shop & EPS. Thanks for drawing that to your reps attention.
The exact amount received from the Everton cup match has not yet been established. However the best guesstimate, EFL ( 10 %),  after also deducting, VAT, stewarding, police turnstile ops etc, travel & hotels, it’s believed £80k will be heading the clubs way.The club wanted to remove the figures portrayed that £250k was heading to the clubs coffers, as alluded to by some.
The first set of applicants to join the shadow board,,were interviewed this morning with more to be spoken to in the very near future.
Rovers + The club has been challenged & looked into the various complaints received. Nearly all are different issues.These are not problems at the Donny end. The report that some of our equipment is out of date is completely untrue. I was sat near Liam today & there were no problems mentioned.The club has promised to continue to work with the EFL & suppliers.Other clubs are having similar problems. We will keep this one on our radar.
I hope this helps a little. Many thanks. Derek.

Thanks, Derek. I appreciate you and Martin giving up your own time to keep us all informed.

[BobG]

So do I!

BobG

[roversdude]

Me too

[Filo]

I’m curious to know why interviews are taking place and not elections?

[Lincoln Rover]

Filo…fair point.I’ll give you that one.

[SydneyRover]

This from the club site

https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/news/2024/july/26/shadow-board-to-hold-2024-election/

[Filo]

Filo…fair point.I’ll give you that one.

Could you elaborate on that?

It seems very long winded when a straightforward election would suffice, why are candidates being eliminated by interview by the current board? It comes across to me a bit authoritarian

[BradwellRover]

Elected by who and how?

I am fully in favour of the people being vetted in order to ensure they have the appropriate skills and experience to actually add value, that’s what happens in every political party.

[selby]

  I hope we are better at selecting good candidates than the political parties for gods sake.

[Filo]

Elected by who and how?

I am fully in favour of the people being vetted in order to ensure they have the appropriate skills and experience to actually add value, that’s what happens in every political party.

Is the supporters board a political party?

[ForsolongaRover]

Filo…fair point.I’ll give you that one.

Could you elaborate on that?

It seems very long winded when a straightforward election would suffice, why are candidates being eliminated by interview by the current board? It comes across to me a bit authoritarian

Three points Lincoln.
1. It seems to be a reasonable expectation that the template for Shadow Boards will become either part of the main “Governance” legislation or be in the supporting "Statutory Regulations" and the election process would surely feature too. It would be innovative if any "election" process could include a refinement such as an interview before a successful candidate could stand for election or be subject to, after being successful in the ballot. If it did, it could so easily be construed an instrument for eliminating the purity of the choice of the electors, by disqualifying otherwise successful or potentially successful candidates. And that would surely negate the purity of democracy. The analogy with candidate interviews who stand in elections for political parties is not entirely valid. Parties interview candidates in advance of elections in order to ensure that they will suitably represent the Party's policies. If they are not chosen, they are free to put themselves up for election as individuals. 

2. I don't doubt that the system providers, the suppliers of the software and the operating system, are directly responsible for the functioning of the website etc., and can therefore be blamed for things that go wrong, but the club are the customers and we the fans are the club's customers. Clearly the club believed they had bought a premium product, based on the experience of the top clubs that were using the systems from the providers in question already. But it has been disappointing in its operation and does not seem to contain important features. In this situation (with a product not really fit for purpose) it would be good to know that the club were exerting real pressure on the suppliers to bring things up to scratch, just as we are, as the ultimate customers.

3. Although I have been criticised on this forum for "moaning", I do not underestimate your efforts on our behalf and I also know how much Liam cares about providing the service we all want.   

[ForsolongaRover]

Elected by who and how?

I am fully in favour of the people being vetted in order to ensure they have the appropriate skills and experience to actually add value, that’s what happens in every political party.

Is the supporters board a political party?

I did not see your contribution before I posted mine Filo, but very succinctly put!

[BradwellRover]

Elected by who and how?

I am fully in favour of the people being vetted in order to ensure they have the appropriate skills and experience to actually add value, that’s what happens in every political party.

Is the supporters board a political party?

Yes, that.

I think you understand the point I was making;  that it’s a regularly used model that ensures some level of scrutiny.

How would it work as a free for all with no governance?  Do we just hope that we get the right people?  Although it does seem that some on here are happy to have anyone, regardless of skills, experience or capability to fulfil the role, for the sake of ‘purity of democracy’?

[Filo]

Elected by who and how?

I am fully in favour of the people being vetted in order to ensure they have the appropriate skills and experience to actually add value, that’s what happens in every political party.

Is the supporters board a political party?

I think you understand the point I was making;  that it’s a regularly used model that ensures some level of scrutiny. It would hardly work as a free for all with no governance would it?

I think it appears undemocratic, when present board members are vetting prospective board members, it comes across as a bit Soviet style “ election” almost as if they want “yes men”

[BradwellRover]

Only if you are that way inclined.

The alternate view is that they are making sure that we get people able to contribute and represent the wider fan base, whilst also being able to communicate that back to us.

As per my original point, would you want someone getting elected simply because they have a lot of mates and can run a Facebook campaign, but who only attends 5 games a year and has no relevant skills or experience?

The other risk is that we get someone with a background that could embarass the club. I expect some due diligence is part of the process. 

[BradwellRover]

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-18/reform-uk-leader-nigel-farage-questioned-about-vetting-of-party-candidates

[ForsolongaRover]

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-18/reform-uk-leader-nigel-farage-questioned-about-vetting-of-party-candidates

Only if you are that way inclined.

The alternate view is that they are making sure that we get people able to contribute and represent the wider fan base, whilst also being able to communicate that back to us.

As per my original point, would you want someone getting elected simply because they have a lot of mates and can run a Facebook campaign, but who only attends 5 games a year and has no relevant skills or experience?

The other risk is that we get someone with a background that could embarass the club. I expect some due diligence is part of the process.

There is always merit in getting sensible people in positions of importance, but you would hope that this is achieved by the operation of pure democracy. As people are probably aware, some organisations expect election candidates to set out a summary of their reasons for standing. That seems to have the effect of electors voting for people whose ideas they agree with. It goes some way to getting a mix of those who are representative.

Vetting poses the question “Who is qualified to decide who is suitable?” It could be a bunch of people intent on sacking the Club’s Board or people who are best mates with Board. Ideally it would be people who are totally impartial. Then the question is “Who chooses them and how is it decided who is suitable for such a role?” If it is the current Shadow Board might they not be tempted to exclude anyone whose views do not align with theirs? The whole scheme is surely intended to achieve true representation and therefore reflect a range of opinion, not necessarily to replicate  and entrench existing policy. The Shadow Board should always be sufficiently refreshed to avoid getting too cosy with any Board of Directors. These measures were introduced to ensure that there would be a means and a willingness to question decision-making and, if necessary, directly oppose owners who place their own interests above the fans.

[selby]

I am all in favour of the vetting process and have full faith in the present board to oversee the process as as far as I am aware they are not in the game for their own agenda and have served the club well and us the supporters in their capacity from the boards inception whoever has been associated with it in the past.
  SM, and Derek have been excellent communicators and we are subsequently well informed of matters we should be as supporters, whether other clubs are as well served I don't know, but in some cases I would doubt it.
   As for running open elections I am one vote against it, as there would never be a massive number to vote and it would be open to such as the Netto club dominating the vote with very few people and overwhelming the numbers on the shadow board.
  That would probably result in the club not disclosing  as much information to the wider fan base for instance if you look at the minutes of past meetings of the shadow board it is in those minutes that the club will make available the full accounts to certain members of the board as forwarded to the tax people, and we are the only club that do so, that is in the past minutes of the meeting with the club and board.
  So I am in favour of the vetting process and am quite at ease for the members of the board to look for members who don't want to just follow their individual or organised ideology to the detriment of the wider supporters well being, which I feel the board members past and present have achieved together with gaining the trust of the main board and owners to work together for the good of the club.
   As an  attending long standing supporter I thank everyone who has or is a member of the shadow board past and present who give their time freely to make our game experience and our connection with the club better and the owners and main board for for accepting progress so well, long may it continue.
  As for pure democracy I am quite at ease with the process of the members of the board having the vote as there are a number of them with a chairman with a casting vote  so to me is democratic  and the people voting have a full view of the people they are voting for not just a casual I know him so I will vote for him which an open vote would become and open to favourable selection to forward an alternative agenda.

[Filo]

Filo…fair point.I’ll give you that one.

Could you elaborate on that?

It seems very long winded when a straightforward election would suffice, why are candidates being eliminated by interview by the current board? It comes across to me a bit authoritarian

Any further comment Lincoln Rover?

[ForsolongaRover]

I don’t doubt your faith in what is there now Selby.

We shall have to see what passes into law and I would hope that the machinery which is installed at DRFC conforms with what is prescribed.

[BobG]

You think it wouldn't?!

BobG

[selby]

  I doubt the reasons people want change to something that is working so well and would want to know what their agenda was.
  And seeing as Derek is a past serving law enforcer I don't doubt the fact we would conform with any law requirements.

[Lincoln Rover]

Filo.
My apologies, I misunderstood your first comment. I thought you were asking why we weren’t already at the election stage in terms of voting.
The SB election process has been developed from many chats with other SB’s & FAB’s from all over the country. I’d suggest the average time spent doing the roles, of James & I are presently taking up twenty plus hours a week each over the last couple of months or so.
If you just went to straight elections it would a popularity vote no doubt.The way it’s being conducted is fair in that persons who are banned or have no recent ticketing history are excluded. The quality of candidates is truly exceptional with the ability & desire to challenge our  club confidently in the knowledge that they are good in their respective fields. Collectively we work very well as a team. The whole process is there for everyone to see on the clubs website & the SB twitter.
We are well ahead of other clubs & several now approach us for advice on how to make it work.
We learn from every meeting & adapt when we think it’s needed. We’re not perfect & I can’t thank my fellow volunteers enough for trying to make it better for our fans in many ways.
A few,( not you), just wish to criticise whatever we do. The vast majority appreciate the time  that Martin & others have put in over the years.
I hope that helps. I don’t spend a lot of time on here, as work, family life & following Donny Rovers gets in the way. Keep smiling.
DD

[Filo]

Filo.
My apologies, I misunderstood your first comment. I thought you were asking why we weren’t already at the election stage in terms of voting.
The SB election process has been developed from many chats with other SB’s & FAB’s from all over the country. I’d suggest the average time spent doing the roles, of James & I are presently taking up twenty plus hours a week each over the last couple of months or so.
If you just went to straight elections it would a popularity vote no doubt.The way it’s being conducted is fair in that persons who are banned or have no recent ticketing history are excluded. The quality of candidates is truly exceptional with the ability & desire to challenge our  club confidently in the knowledge that they are good in their respective fields. Collectively we work very well as a team. The whole process is there for everyone to see on the clubs website & the SB twitter.
We are well ahead of other clubs & several now approach us for advice on how to make it work.
We learn from every meeting & adapt when we think it’s needed. We’re not perfect & I can’t thank my fellow volunteers enough for trying to make it better for our fans in many ways.
A few,( not you), just wish to criticise whatever we do. The vast majority appreciate the time  that Martin & others have put in over the years.
I hope that helps. I don’t spend a lot of time on here, as work, family life & following Donny Rovers gets in the way. Keep smiling.
DD

Thanks for the reply, I did ask again because you had already been active on here this morning.

The banned or no recent ticket history data will already be held by the club without having a candidate submitting a CV and having to go through an interview process, seems all a bit gestapo to me

[Lincoln Rover]

Please look at the election process. Happy for you to PM me IF you wish with how we can make it better.

[ForsolongaRover]

  I doubt the reasons people want change to something that is working so well and would want to know what their agenda was.
  And seeing as Derek is a past serving law enforcer I don't doubt the fact we would conform with any law requirements.

LR: I have no doubt at all about your commitment and all I am trying to establish is the importance of being truly representative. One of your points about excluding people with no recent ticketing history means that those of us who are exiled are disqualified, yet the Government publication on the matter specifically mentions the representation of overseas fans. I do not doubt that people in my position, a UK "exile", would also feel that they are encompassed by the measures and indeed most of us will be Rovers+ subscribers.

I hope no one minds if I quote what the relevant section of the Government report on the subject (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fan-led-review-of-football-governance-securing-the-games-future/fan-led-review-of-football-governance-securing-the-games-future#chap2) states:

"Having considered various models and approaches, it is recommended that the mandated Shadow Board should:

- operate according to written terms of reference registered with IREF, which should be based on a standard IREF template (which may be varied to allow flexibility according to local circumstances if so requested by supporters and the club)
- consist of 5 - 12 members appointed according to a democratic process
- have a Chair appointed from among its members on a seasonal basis
- have reserved seats for representatives from key supporter groups including: representatives of the body holding the Golden Share, equality, diversity and inclusion representatives, youth supporters and international supporters (if relevant)
- members should be subject to retirement by rotation, ensuring both that there is a regular turnover of members but also that at any one time there will be a number of experienced members on the Shadow Board
- hold at least quarterly meetings with club executives, with guaranteed attendance from the club CEO or equivalent twice per year."

Sorting this out at club level based on the above will not be straightforward and perhaps how this will all be achieved in practice will be clarified when it is all rolled out.

The whole thrust of these measures is surely to ensure there is representation of the entire fan base and not simply those who are members of the team's supporters’ club and are able to attend matches regularly which seems to be the nucleus around which those who currently serve on the Board is drawn.

 
 

[Lincoln Rover]

FSR.
As you quite rightly say, it’s guidance & recommendations. We do take soundings from abroad I can assure you. We’ve also implemented the youth panel. More than happy for you to
It’s never perfect but thanks for sharing. It’s an ever evolving subject & one we try our best on.

[selby]

  Does anyone know somebody wanting to go on the board with £50 million to splurge on us?

[Ldr]

The propensity of this forum to find something meaningless to whinge about is a thing to behold